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  1. #51
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    Armada selling for $3m was the case study I was always looking for - these brands are worth jack shit most of the time, sad as it is. To be a forefront (heh) player in any industry that does manufacturing with 15M in sales and sell for 3m is all that needs to be known about how difficult it is to make any money doing what they did.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    Are you talking about the Knee Bindinding dude ? We were pretty harsh on him. But he was a sanctimonious douche and deserved it.
    I think it was a reference to the Line Reactor binding.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLev View Post
    Trust me no one in the business world looks at a company in the ski industry and says, "now that's the future, we need to buy those guys, they're going to be huge and we'll make a ton of money off them!". It's just skiing.

    BCA likely sold because their other option was to eventually become another one of the brands that people would be saying, "man remember those guys, I wish they were still around."

    I know from experience selling Line skis to them and working for K2 for 7 years that they only buy brands when they can get them for next to nothing, because brand is in a challenging financial situation and K2 knows it's a good brand but bad financial but they can easily plug into K2 operations and distribution and squeeze $ out without any heavy investment.

    This is no diss on BCA, and may have not been exactly the case but I assure you that 9.9 of 10 times this is the case in the ski industry. This is why Amer Sports bought Armada for less than $3m when Armada was doing $15m in sales. The purchase price was actually the amount of debt owed by Armada and if wasn't, Aramada would have been gone, same as when I sold Line to K2.

    Harsh but reality of the ski industry. It's a freakin 6 month a year business dependent on snow falling from the sky.
    Man, you don't have to explain shit to anybody here. Most of us are just glad 4frnt is still viable.
    Anonymity of the internet sometimes empowers otherwise reasonable people to say stupid shit sometimes. Me included

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Man, you don't have to explain shit to anybody here. Most of us are just glad 4frnt is still viable.
    Anonymity of the internet sometimes empowers otherwise reasonable people to say stupid shit sometimes.
    Yes. This in spades.

  5. #55
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    ^basically PMd him same

  6. #56
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    Apr 2005
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    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
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    id read the minion sticky
    at least the 1st page
    but members, lurkers and aint fer me ers all have their notions on what its hokey pokeys about
    thanks fer makin the hats in the first place
    from afar one might think im on the murica ever needed the pussy grabbing moron messiah fixins
    but like the tgrz the books dont always read like the covers
    if the new hat gits kicked down or raffled off
    it would be for worthiness beyond my balding dome
    im stoked the last ones survived vert rackin skins, river miles, and the bullshit legal tender garnering tweens
    thanks wish ya the best and maybe ski ya round the satch some day
    and
    When you walk out the door in the morning, what matters most is not what type of skiing you do but whether that skiing is any good. On a waist-deep day, dropping into tight chutes or open bowls, down a sweet line throught the trees where pockets of wind-blown snow create so many natural lips and launching pads... So lets let the dubious bickering within our own sport die with it. The answer is already out there, along with the energy, the freedom, and the truth: What "saved skiing" is SKIING. - Tom Bie
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    Yo poliassfuckers
    theres a special basement for your lame shit

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLev View Post
    hahahaha awesome!
    not telling you to become Jerry.com.... just saying a person working in the ski industry literally creating the products you ride and talk about daily, you shouldn't be going out of your way to make feel uncomfortable here, as I've heard was the case from dozens of others in the industry
    I think there are a lot of industry types still lurking here under an alias, they have just stopped saying anything and who can blame them
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    Are you talking about the Knee Bindinding dude ? We were pretty harsh on him. But he was a sanctimonious douche and deserved it.
    And no one here would buy one of those claptraps, lol.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  9. #59
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    Dec 2011
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    I blame Rob Story.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLev View Post
    Anyone ever mentioning TGR messageboard in the industry say it's too agressively negative to be worth their while going on here and shareing their knowledge. I think it would be a smart initiative for the members to settle down the few agro members and trollers in hopes of broader participation. it's a small freakin industry so it's super counterproductive to not make all feel welcome... It's just skiing.
    I suggest following Cody T aka Alkasquawlik's approach - he answers questions and dishes shit back out as needed. See the 20-30 page Shift binding thread. If someone in the industry can't hang with that, oh well...

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    I suggest following Cody T aka Alkasquawlik's approach - he answers questions and dishes shit back out as needed. See the 20-30 page Shift binding thread. If someone in the industry can't hang with that, oh well...
    Right on - also, I'm not sure I'd call it accurate to say "anyone in the industry" sees it not worth their while...we got a couple pretty kick-ass CEO's on here doing just that, and I'd say it's a net positive for them.

    This may be a weird dark little corner of the web, but it shows up damn high for anyone googling for product reviews/info/etc (google '4frnt hoji review' and see how many of the page 1 hits are written by us weirdos...). Buyers either see "wow the founder of that company is giving 1-on-1 advice to these guys...that's amazing", or they see "wow that CEO who just took over that other guy's company is copping some non-CEO-esque attitude with those guys and kinda talking down to them....weird".

    I know you get this, but that's basic brand-building and will sell or not sell as many skis as anything else.

    All respect due for all you've done Jlev, but looking at this from a marketing perspective, I might flip your logic back at ya...you might learn to get along with the natives here, in hopes of more positive vibes getting pushed out into the "there forever" ether of your prospective buyers' search results. And anyone who has spent any time here knows there is no "settling down" anyone else. That's not how we roll.

    It's a small freakin' industry, and for the non-megacorps it's super competitive...if you guys are really pushing to sell majority direct, meaning courting skiers not multi-line buyers, the tone of what goes on here can have an outsized impact pretty quick.

    Wishing you the best of luck, seriously, but I think managing a presence on a forum might just be a skill that's not in your toolbox. Maybe get a rep to run it for you.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I think there are a lot of industry types still lurking here under an alias, they have just stopped saying anything and who can blame them
    I would say a wise CEO would see the forums as a secondary (but impactful) market force and the two options are (a) get REALLY good at managing a presence - a la Mr Andrus who's a maestro at that shit - or (b) be an invisible observer. The stuff in the middle never really works.

  13. #63
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    So a few people will manage the scene well and a bunch will just give it a pass ... nothing is about to change,
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by optics View Post
    I would say a wise CEO would see the forums as a secondary (but impactful) market force and the two options are (a) get REALLY good at managing a presence - a la Mr Andrus who's a maestro at that shit - or (b) be an invisible observer. The stuff in the middle never really works.
    One thing that might be hard for others to imitate is that Alka and Iggyskier had backgrounds here first. At least ok pretty sure Alka did. It's interesting to watch how different companies come into the forum and to see who stays, and how.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    So a few people will manage the scene well and a bunch will just give it a pass ... nothing is about to change,
    Correct

  16. #66
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    Truckee & Sonoma
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    Itís that thick skin requirement that makes me appreciate this place... most of the time. And to be honest, itís way softer now than it was several years ago (mostly for good).

  17. #67
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    Sterbenz gone from 4frnt, end of an era

    https://youtu.be/eF8c3BjFWsw

    Cant run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch.

    Iím just kidding, I think itís funny people are afraid of TGR. Abraham is the only person I fear on here.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  18. #68
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    lots of hatey hatersons on this board but I ignore most and pay attn to the 5% which are gold

    I like hearing what you have to say about how stuff actually works in the industry and the other guys do too- some just have smaller penises (NTTAWWT) so they act tough online

    I loove 4frnt - ehp's to hojis (and really Line too my husband is andrew whiteford, although have not tried a J ski yet but i do enoy your graphics and marketing)

    glad you kept 4frnt afloat - thank you sincerely

    edit to add about full tilt too- thanks bc if people (like you) did not have the vision, we would not have them back. my full tilts make life better - yes I know #firstworldproblems but a wonderful solution
    skid luxury

  19. #69
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    Oct 2003
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    I'm still rocking a pair of EHPs as my goto inbounds crudbuster. They were amazeballs dashiznitz 13 years ago and that design and shape still crush.

    I need to try some Renegades. Is that what we are talking about in here? I'm confused.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  20. #70
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    Sep 2007
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    tetons
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    !I wish they made rene's in my size ..starry eyed emoji..

    the ski industry is very complicated. it's tough with consolidation but I also think the leverage of the market that can now be reached to make enough (for a basic/ decent living for a biz exec), and offers a new opportunity and we are the beneficiaries

    half the time I wanted to chk out a ski the shops didnt have it anyway so the direct model works for me irl
    skid luxury

  21. #71
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    Burlington, VT
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-bear View Post
    lots of hatey hatersons on this board but I ignore most and pay attn to the 5% which are gold

    I like hearing what you have to say about how stuff actually works in the industry and the other guys do too- some just have smaller penises (NTTAWWT) so they act tough online

    I loove 4frnt - ehp's to hojis (and really Line too my husband is andrew whiteford, although have not tried a J ski yet but i do enoy your graphics and marketing)

    glad you kept 4frnt afloat - thank you sincerely

    edit to add about full tilt too- thanks bc if people (like you) did not have the vision, we would not have them back. my full tilts make life better - yes I know #firstworldproblems but a wonderful solution
    So cool to hear from you! Thanks for the stoke and say hi to Andrew for me

  22. #72
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    Aug 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    https://youtu.be/eF8c3BjFWsw

    Cant run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch.

    Iím just kidding, I think itís funny people are afraid of TGR. Abraham is the only person I fear on here.
    Afraid is wrong word, industry sees the forum as not credible due such loud voices of trollers and haters, so don't bother taking seriously nor participating. Not something a real skier would be proud of.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLev View Post
    Afraid is wrong word, industry sees the forum as not credible due such loud voices of trollers and haters, so don't bother taking seriously nor participating. Not something a real skier would be proud of.
    this seems reasonable and relevant

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by optics View Post

    Wishing you the best of luck, seriously, but I think managing a presence on a forum might just be a skill that's not in your toolbox. Maybe get a rep to run it for you.
    Because you think I should be here only to promote my products, instead of as a skier having a transparent and honest conversation about our sport and industry?

  25. #75
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    I'm glad I read this thread. No experience with your current or past companies, but thanks for sharing the perspective. The more companies making skis the better, in my view. Because skiing is awesome. Good luck!
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "I'd eat a bag of Dicks and wash it down with a Coke any day." - iceman

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