Sterbenz gone from 4frnt, end of an era

[wyeaster]

isn't what we're all here for?

[El Kanone]

Well you definitely excel at it


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[alias_rice]

isn't what we're all here for?

Beat me to it.

[JLev]

We still need the ski weights up on the site!

Also please make a renegade in a heavier inbounds focused core.

Yup, will be working to add all ski weights Monday, if you have last year's they're same with exception of the Devastator being 15% lighter due wood core change from Ash/Poplar to Light Poplar/Beech.

Will talk continue to discuss w Hoji the Renegade but we've tried to maintain the light weight side of Hoji's skis without becoming so light that you sacrifice the hard charging stability 4FRNTs are known for unlike other skis in the BC segment. Eric makes a big point of finding that balance because he always wants uphill efficiency, but without sacrificing downhill alpine performance.

[wyeaster]

Well you definitely excel at it


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are you saying i'm a tough guy?

[Banh Mi]

JLev, please make bigger skis for us over 200lbs!


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[Banh Mi]

It’s a company request. The owner is responding, so it would be wiser for me to say it here if I want to be effective. He answered mr pretzels question/request about ren in heavier core..


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[splat]

Jeezuz.........Jlev invented twin tips just as Shane invented rocker. He fucking walked on water. Change is inevitable. Embrace it.

It's really fucking hard to make it in the ski biz unless you cater to a skier demographic that will support the business through sufficient purchases that will then allow the creativity to achieve innovation. Jason might as well have invented park rats. And that's a good demographic. As are freeskiers and freeskier wannnabes. It takes a while to develop a ski catalog that has something for everyone.

When J made bank on the twintips, he dropped an assload of cashish to create a binding that would save your knees. It didn't fly but he rolled those fucking dice for the protection and betterment of skierkind.
I understand the exclamatory tone the site might exude for a much younger crowd than exists here.

But I'm here to wish you the best, J. Your life and soul have occupied the ski space for long time and I respect you for that.

[Banh Mi]

Im so sensitive Flowing, when you meet me this season you’ll see.

I’m actually afraid to go to Alpental BBI because I fear a harsh reality check from Abraham. I will overcome my fear this season.


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[JLev]

But I'm here to wish you the best, J. Your life and soul have occupied the ski space for long time and I respect you for that.

Thanks a ton for your ongoing support!
As you eluded to, if I was doing it for the money, I wouldn't be in the ski industry. I'm working hard for 4FRNT because I believe the brand deserves a strong future and I didn't want to see another important brand that was one of the original pioneers of micro brew independently owned ski companies die like so many others you've seen recently or forced to sell to a public company as happened with Line and Armada.

When I started Line in 1995, it was because the dozen existing giant ski corporations were all that existed and skiing was laime, literally on an extremely rapid decline with snowboarding picking up all their new should have been customers. Today, 23 years later, snowboarding is on a rapid decline and skiing is healthy because of the 100+ micro brew small to medium size privately owned ski brands that are breathing new life into the sport daily, because they're in it for the good of the sport, not just the bottom line. We all invest a far higher proportion of what they sell, back into the sport, unlike the public companies looking to squeeze every penny out of it. This is why it's so important to me to make sure all independent brands, as well as 4FRNT.. one of the original few independents startups from early 2000's stay strong and around for years to come.

[Wood Charles]

Is there a way to see how stiff or soft the new Renegade flex is?

[CascadeLuke]

Thanks a ton for your ongoing support!
As you eluded to, if I was doing it for the money, I wouldn't be in the ski industry. I'm working hard for 4FRNT because I believe the brand deserves a strong future and I didn't want to see another important brand that was one of the original pioneers of micro brew independently owned ski companies die like so many others you've seen recently or forced to sell to a public company as happened with Line and Armada.

When I started Line in 1995, it was because the dozen existing giant ski corporations were all that existed and skiing was laime, literally on an extremely rapid decline with snowboarding picking up all their new should have been customers. Today, 23 years later, snowboarding is on a rapid decline and skiing is healthy because of the 100+ micro brew small to medium size privately owned ski brands that are breathing new life into the sport daily, because they're in it for the good of the sport, not just the bottom line. We all invest a far higher proportion of what they sell, back into the sport, unlike the public companies looking to squeeze every penny out of it. This is why it's so important to me to make sure all independent brands, as well as 4FRNT.. one of the original few independents startups from early 2000's stay strong and around for years to come.

I think you’re representing yourself well here. Had not known some of this background - you’ve done much to earn respect. I identify with the late 90’s snowboard take over. Put in 15 yrs then converted back to skiing once I started seeing the late 2000 product advancement (at least that’s when I took notice again).

Could probably look into it, but are you heading both Jskis and 4frnt at the same time?

[2FUNKY]

Dang. This thread started off very lame but has turned very informative. Thanks J for stepping in and setting some here straight. The only 4FRNT ski I own is the cody. It’s my family, need to really dial it back, good off ski and it’s a ton of fun doing those things. I’ve always lusted over the Renegades. Just so many other shapes out there I never got on a pair. Maybe one day. Keep up the fight man.

[Skidog]

Haa ha
Awesome
Thanks for commenting jLev
Once again the tough guys on here have been proven to be ignoramuses spewing forth on things they know nothing about.


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I'm sure if you were a ceo, who has a questionable habit for sell offs, you'd totally come and admit you were planning consolidation and/or sell off to one of your core demographics. Hahahahahaha...I guess we see how it all fleshes out.
I never thought Edgerly would sell out BCA, but everyone has a number.

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[BC.]

Thanks a ton for your ongoing support!
As you eluded to, if I was doing it for the money, I wouldn't be in the ski industry. I'm working hard for 4FRNT because I believe the brand deserves a strong future and I didn't want to see another important brand that was one of the original pioneers of micro brew independently owned ski companies die like so many others you've seen recently or forced to sell to a public company as happened with Line and Armada.

When I started Line in 1995, it was because the dozen existing giant ski corporations were all that existed and skiing was laime, literally on an extremely rapid decline with snowboarding picking up all their new should have been customers. Today, 23 years later, snowboarding is on a rapid decline and skiing is healthy because of the 100+ micro brew small to medium size privately owned ski brands that are breathing new life into the sport daily, because they're in it for the good of the sport, not just the bottom line. We all invest a far higher proportion of what they sell, back into the sport, unlike the public companies looking to squeeze every penny out of it. This is why it's so important to me to make sure all independent brands, as well as 4FRNT.. one of the original few independents startups from early 2000's stay strong and around for years to come.

Damn...great stuff!

[stuckathuntermtn]

Didn't realize Armada got gobbled up by the whole Amer Sports thing. Too bad.
New MSP 107 looks nifty.

[Self Jupiter]

Can’t run a company forever that doesn’t make any money.

Methinks the older 4frnts will be for sale on here us crusty hardcores. Especially the long lengths

Frankly, OG 186 Rens ate most people who tried to ski it. Dentists buy the new skis.

[skiingintherain]

Feel bad starting this thread on a negative note. I didn't mean to be a keyboard know-it-all. It was a visceral reaction to the initial email I saw and a quick look at the new website content and the powder article.
The one reason I'm glad I did start is to give JLev a chance to step in and provide the feedback we would never see elsewhere. Its pretty hard not to respect how you have responded and even taken action on the feedback.
It is sad to see Sterbenz go after 10 years on his skis but seems like its in better hands with J than anyone else.

[JLev]

Is there a way to see how stiff or soft the new Renegade flex is?

It's exactly the same flex as last year which I'd classify as same flex as most other big mtn freeride skis which is on the stiff side of the flex spectrum. The only change is in the geometry. This year Hoji redesigned the shape, keeping the same waist width but widening the tip and tail slightly to accommodate a new tighter sidecut and reverse camber radius of 30m instead of previous 35m. His did this to provide more ease in turning and greater control at a wider variety of speeds in deep pow.

[JLev]

Feel bad starting this thread on a negative note. I didn't mean to be a keyboard know-it-all. It was a visceral reaction to the initial email I saw and a quick look at the new website content and the powder article.
The one reason I'm glad I did start is to give JLev a chance to step in and provide the feedback we would never see elsewhere. Its pretty hard not to respect how you have responded and even taken action on the feedback.
It is sad to see Sterbenz go after 10 years on his skis but seems like its in better hands with J than anyone else.

All good, no worries, the perception of skiing vs reality of the business couldn't be more opposite.... and impossible for anyone to know without being in it or others like myself sharing perspective.

I've done a dozen or more pod cast interviews with variety of media and gone into detail as well has Matt last year when I aquired it. So if you want to learn more google those up.

Anyone ever mentioning TGR messageboard in the industry say it's too agressively negative to be worth their while going on here and shareing their knowledge. I think it would be a smart initiative for the members to settle down the few agro members and trollers in hopes of broader participation. it's a small freakin industry so it's super counterproductive to not make all feel welcome... It's just skiing.

[JLev]

I think you’re representing yourself well here. Had not known some of this background - you’ve done much to earn respect. I identify with the late 90’s snowboard take over. Put in 15 yrs then converted back to skiing once I started seeing the late 2000 product advancement (at least that’s when I took notice again).

Could probably look into it, but are you heading both Jskis and 4frnt at the same time?

Yes I own and operate every detail of both J skis and 4FRNT. I acquired 4frnt last summer at this time from Matt. He's the first to admit and said in previous pod casts that 4frnt had never been profitable for all of it's 15 years. Together we changed that last season by selling exclusively direct through 4frnt.com setting the course for a solid future.

[JLev]

I'm sure if you were a ceo, who has a questionable habit for sell offs, you'd totally come and admit you were planning consolidation and/or sell off to one of your core demographics. Hahahahahaha...I guess we see how it all fleshes out.
I never thought Edgerly would sell out BCA, but everyone has a number.

"Habit for sell offs"?

If you're referring to me, I've only sold one brand and it was the one I started because I would have gone out of business if I didn't sell it. To clarify my history relating to brands:

1995 started Line skis > 2006 sold to K2 for $0 since we were close to bankrupt and couldn't continue on our own. K2 literally paid me nothing personally for the "purchase" and instead paid off our $100k's of dept and I got a standard job from them to run it, no ownership.

2006 K2 asked me to add to my job responsibilities launching a new boot brand using their trademarked "Full Tilt" wakeboard brand name and use the old original Raichle flexon comp boot they aquired for the product. I ran both Line and FT working for K2 for years

2013 I quit my job at K2 and started Jskis.com with a completely different business model running extremely lean and selling exclusively direct online, I wanted to own my own ski business again. 4 yrs later proved to myself this new business model is the only way to operate a financially stable SMALL business in the ski industry... it worked!

2017 Matt Sterbenz sees I figured out a new way to operate to overcame the financial challenges all small ski brand instead of operating like a big corporation and asks if I'd like to get involved in 4FRNT, which ultimately lead to my ownership of 4FRNT

sorry if that was more than you asked, but I'm certainly not a wall street guy buying and flipping ski brands. I'm an entrepreneur working in the name of what's best for skiing, while trying not to go out of business and make a living.

[JLev]

i don’t know J, we’re not lookin to become alpinezone.

hahahaha awesome!
not telling you to become Jerry.com.... just saying a person working in the ski industry literally creating the products you ride and talk about daily, you shouldn't be going out of your way to make feel uncomfortable here, as I've heard was the case from dozens of others in the industry

[JLev]

I'm sure if you were a ceo, who has a questionable habit for sell offs, you'd totally come and admit you were planning consolidation and/or sell off to one of your core demographics. Hahahahahaha...I guess we see how it all fleshes out.
I never thought Edgerly would sell out BCA, but everyone has a number.

Trust me no one in the business world looks at a company in the ski industry and says, "now that's the future, we need to buy those guys, they're going to be huge and we'll make a ton of money off them!". It's just skiing.

BCA likely sold because their other option was to eventually become another one of the brands that people would be saying, "man remember those guys, I wish they were still around."

I know from experience selling Line skis to them and working for K2 for 7 years that they only buy brands when they can get them for next to nothing, because brand is in a challenging financial situation and K2 knows it's a good brand but bad financial but they can easily plug into K2 operations and distribution and squeeze $ out without any heavy investment.

This is no diss on BCA, and may have not been exactly the case but I assure you that 9.9 of 10 times this is the case in the ski industry. This is why Amer Sports bought Armada for less than $3m when Armada was doing $15m in sales. The purchase price was actually the amount of debt owed by Armada and if wasn't, Aramada would have been gone, same as when I sold Line to K2.

Harsh but reality of the ski industry. It's a freakin 6 month a year business dependent on if and when and where snow falls from the sky.

[Harry]

Are you talking about the Knee Bindinding dude ? We were pretty harsh on him. But he was a sanctimonious douche and deserved it.