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  1. #751
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    Sep 2018
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    75
    Quote Originally Posted by noslow View Post
    Think Im going to go for a non tour Wildcat 108 and have sent Moment an email but its the weekend so not sure if ill hear back before next week.
    For those who have done custom skis from them, Im assuming they will charge extra for the regular core construction from the Wildcat but do they charge extra if you choose another current graphic like the regular Wildcat topsheet? Could care less if its cut off or says another model even. Dont mind the white topsheet of the 108 Tour but would rather the black Wildcat Tour version or even better, the regular Wildcat one. Fine with whatever base graphic.
    Had a pair of barely used 2015 PB&J's fall into my lap for under $300 I couldn't say no to. Going to pair these with the Bibby's for now instead.

  2. #752
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    PNW
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    310
    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    (Wildcat review vs Bibbys)
    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
    I remember scratching my head a bit at your old Bibby reviews/comments as they didn't match my experience. I'm smaller (5'10" 170) and have skied the old 184 Bibby Pros the last few years. My comments would match yours for the Wildcat pretty closely other than I do find the 184 a bit short if I'm really charging in variable. But super playful and floaty feeling. I haven't followed the changes really, is the Wildcat just a lighter layup Bibby or what? Shape looks the same.

    I posted in the ON3P thread, but I'm looking for a 1 ski quiver for SW MT for my brother. Non-directional playful ski with a back bone might be the best way to say what I'm looking for. I'm thinking Kartel 108, Deathwish, Kartel 116, Bibby/Wildcat. Somewhere in that spectrum. With a 1 ski quiver it's always tough to decide between powder perfomance and everyday ski-ability.
    Last edited by mtskibum16; 12-17-2018 at 04:15 PM.

  3. #753
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    Dec 2007
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    Hell Track
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtskibum16 View Post

    I posted in the ON3P thread, but I'm looking for a 1 ski quiver for SW MT for my brother. Non-direction playful ski with a back bone might be the best way to say what I'm looking for. I'm thinking Kartel 108, Deathwish, Kartel 116, Bibby/Wildcat. Somewhere in that spectrum. With a 1 ski quiver it's always tough to decide between powder perfomance and everyday ski-ability.
    Another semi-obscure ski to add to the list of options: I've been on the Whitedot Director a few days this year. 107 under foot, long radius, zero camber, fair amount of tip and tail splay, pretty stiff. The Bibby is still my favorite ski ever, but the Director is more versatile; Director does better on hardpack, and it's a little stiffer, but it still has a lot of the same playful feeling to it. Haven't had them out on a particularly deep day yet (since I have the Bibby's for that), but they seem to handle soft snow well - they plane up nicely, even at slower speeds. They're floatier than my Cochises, which is what they replaced.

  4. #754
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    PNW
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    310
    Thanks, I'll check them out. Is it a progressive mount and twin? I was thinking the Wren 108 would be about as good as you can hope for a 1 ski quiver until he mentioned how much he rides switch. I had the OG Cochise and wouldn't want it for a 1 ski quiver just due to powder performance so good comparison for placing the Director.

  5. #755
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    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtskibum16 View Post
    Thanks, I'll check them out. Is it a progressive mount and twin? I was thinking the Wren 108 would be about as good as you can hope for a 1 ski quiver until he mentioned how much he rides switch. I had the OG Cochise and wouldn't want it for a 1 ski quiver just due to powder performance so good comparison for placing the Director.
    Yeah, it's twinned. Topsheet has marks for mounting anywhere from center to minus 10-ish. The "freeride" mark is at -5. I've been running them at -6. Splay isn't entirely symmetrical (more tip rocker than tail rocker), but there's more tail splay on them than most skis of that width. They're roughly comparable to the Cochise in terms of stiffness and dimensions, but they have much more rocker, and they're a a lot slarvier. Cochise felt more like a stay on the ground and charge kind of ski that could smear around when needed, Director is more smeary, and more about bouncing around off of little poppers, but it's stiff enough that it doesn't fold up when going fast through junk. I'm not one to ski switch, but they definitely don't feel like a directional ski like the Cochise.

  6. #756
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    risin up to paradise...
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    189
    Just received my Deathwish tours. Pretty stoked about this ski, anyone else on it? Probably will put Ions on them, should be a fun BC kit!

  7. #757
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
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    12,199
    Anyone want to trade 190 DW for Meridan 117s? I have been skiing mostly reverse/full rockered skis for past 15 years. I just need that full surfy feeling.

  8. #758
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    Los Angeles/Mammoth
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    710
    If I wake up on Christmas morning and see the M1 back in the Reserve section on the Moment site, I will start believing in Santa Claus again, and know that he is Luke....
    Unofficial Fact: Skiing was 69% more rad in the 1980's.

  9. #759
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Truckee
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    27
    What’s the feeling on 184 vs 190 wildcats? I have read the whole thread and don’t think I saw much. I’m 5’11 and 165lbs, so was thinking 184 would be fine.

  10. #760
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    215
    Quote Originally Posted by drbecks View Post
    Whats the feeling on 184 vs 190 wildcats? I have read the whole thread and dont think I saw much. Im 511 and 165lbs, so was thinking 184 would be fine.
    I'm about your size and have owned the 190s and would say either way will work. I wanted more of a charger through crud and was happy. If you are looking for more of a playful pow ski the 184s will be great.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app

  11. #761
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    PNW
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    310
    Depends on your style, terrain, etc. Im about your size and have been on the OG 184 Bibby Pros the last few years. Progressive mount and they actually tape out at like 182 so they ski quite short. Great float and stability for the most part with only a handful of days I really wished I was on the 190. Never got a chance to ski the 190 so I cant say if there would be times Id rather have the 184 if I had the 190s. I bought used and went 184 due to availability. If I was buying new now Id go 190 no doubt.


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  12. #762
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    Dec 2017
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    Truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonhead View Post
    I'm about your size and have owned the 190s and would say either way will work. I wanted more of a charger through crud and was happy. If you are looking for more of a playful pow ski the 184s will be great.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Thanks for the info. A playful pow ski is exactly what Im looking for!

  13. #763
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    Dec 2017
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    Truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtskibum16 View Post
    Depends on your style, terrain, etc. I’m about your size and have been on the OG 184 Bibby Pros the last few years. Progressive mount and they actually tape out at like 182 so they ski quite short. Great float and stability for the most part with only a handful of days I really wished I was on the 190. Never got a chance to ski the 190 so I can’t say if there would be times I’d rather have the 184 if I had the 190s. I bought used and went 184 due to availability. If I was buying new now I’d go 190 no doubt.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Yeah I was looking at getting myself a Christmas gift and 184 are available. I want something slightly more playful so 184 should be good - I’m on bonafides every day right now so the float on a 184 will be a big improvement!

  14. #764
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    Feb 2013
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    Yeah really they float just fine at least in the heavy PNW powder. The few times I wanted bigger was on days with really deep piles of heavy chop where the extra length and float would be nice or when I was trying to really blast through variable crap at high speed. A playful pow ski they are though and they are fantastic and quick in tight trees, slashy, like to air out, and pretty chargy for a pow ski. Ive been very happy with them. The days wanting more are what drove me to pick up some new Billy Goats though.


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  15. #765
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
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    11
    Quote Originally Posted by drbecks View Post
    What’s the feeling on 184 vs 190 wildcats? I have read the whole thread and don’t think I saw much. I’m 5’11 and 165lbs, so was thinking 184 would be fine.
    I'm your height and weigh 158 and have 190 Bibbys and it's a good length. I have them for bigger lines up in AK and Jackson and wasn't worried about spinning or buttering so if you are considering them for an OB pow ski I would say you can't go wrong with the added length.

    FWIW, my daily driver is 184 Deathwish

  16. #766
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
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    2,519
    Wildcat 108 heavy crowd.

    Pulled out my phone calculator to get a weight estimate.
    Wildcat 184 tour - 7.62 lbs.
    Wildcat 184 - 8.96 lbs (let's appreciate how impressive that is for a full fat ski for a moment)

    17% increase from tour to full fat at that length.

    So...

    184 wildcat tour 108 - 7.4 lbs (*1.17)
    184 wildcat fat 108 - 8.7 lbs.

    For the 190s
    Wildcat tour 190 - 8.07 lbs. (WHAT?!? that's what my daily tourers weigh and it's a 190 cm fat pow ski. WTF, moment. Well done)
    Wildcat 190 - 9.41 lbs. (again, impressive AF)
    16.6% increase.

    Wildcat 108 tour 190 - 7.81 lbs
    Wildcat 108 fat 190 - 9.11 lbs.

    I would lobby for model name changes.
    Call the 108 the wildcat.
    Call the 116/118/Bibby the fat cat. Fits really well for a ski that has been so highly regarded for so long.

    Anyway, I found the info useful.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  17. #767
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    215
    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Wildcat 108 heavy crowd.

    Pulled out my phone calculator to get a weight estimate.
    Wildcat 184 tour - 7.62 lbs.
    Wildcat 184 - 8.96 lbs (let's appreciate how impressive that is for a full fat ski for a moment)

    17% increase from tour to full fat at that length.

    So...

    184 wildcat tour 108 - 7.4 lbs (*1.17)
    184 wildcat fat 108 - 8.7 lbs.

    For the 190s
    Wildcat tour 190 - 8.07 lbs. (WHAT?!? that's what my daily tourers weigh and it's a 190 cm fat pow ski. WTF, moment. Well done)
    Wildcat 190 - 9.41 lbs. (again, impressive AF)
    16.6% increase.

    Wildcat 108 tour 190 - 7.81 lbs
    Wildcat 108 fat 190 - 9.11 lbs.

    I would lobby for model name changes.
    Call the 108 the wildcat.
    Call the 116/118/Bibby the fat cat. Fits really well for a ski that has been so highly regarded for so long.

    Anyway, I found the info useful.
    I like the fatcat name.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app

  18. #768
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    Feb 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonhead View Post
    I like the fatcat name.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Cool Daddio.

    Sent from my Pixel using TGR Forums mobile app
    Unofficial Fact: Skiing was 69% more rad in the 1980's.

  19. #769
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    Sep 2014
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    4039'32.94"N 11135'45.68"W
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtskibum16 View Post
    ...I'm looking for a 1 ski quiver for SW MT for my brother. Non-directional playful ski with a back bone might be the best way to say what I'm looking for. I'm thinking Kartel 108, Deathwish, Kartel 116, Bibby/Wildcat. Somewhere in that spectrum. With a 1 ski quiver it's always tough to decide between powder perfomance and everyday ski-ability.
    For a bit of background: I bought the Wildcat 190 this year to replace the Bibby 184, which I absolutely loved, and have been plenty pleased with the extra length and width and the weight of the ski the few times I've had it out so far this year. I also own the 184 Deathwish which, thanks to recent remount from tour to demo clamps, I have been enjoying the F#@K out of this past month. I used to own the 181 Meridian 107 which was a lot of fun and I spent a couple days demo'ing the Kartel 108 last year. Have NOT been on the Kartel 116 but can't imagine it's as sweet as the Wildcat/Bibby. So with all that being said, I would rec the Deathwish as a 1 ski quiver for SW MT skier who likes to ski both ways. Probably followed by the Kartel 108, which I nearly...and may still...bought/buy. I don't think you can go wrong with any of those but the versatility and sweet spot for the DW is really quite remarkable.

  20. #770
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    189
    Quote Originally Posted by mtskibum16 View Post
    But super playful and floaty feeling. I haven't followed the changes really, is the Wildcat just a lighter layup Bibby or what? Shape looks the same.

    I posted in the ON3P thread, but I'm looking for a 1 ski quiver for SW MT for my brother. Non-directional playful ski with a back bone might be the best way to say what I'm looking for. I'm thinking Kartel 108, Deathwish, Kartel 116, Bibby/Wildcat. Somewhere in that spectrum. With a 1 ski quiver it's always tough to decide between powder perfomance and everyday ski-ability.
    Yeap, Wildcat is just an improved layup, shape is the same.
    I'm almost same as you - 5'10, 155. I skied Bibby and Kartel 108 both. Haven't skied Kartel 116 though, so someone will say that's not a proper comparison. That also won't be a popular opinion on this forum, but I'd prefer Bibby to Kartel everyday. I just felt that Kartel isn't chargy nor very playful. At least for my height/weight. They are noticeably heavier than Bibby which affected playfullness for me. I haven't felt any additional dampness, probably also due to my weight. Also I disliked the flex on kartel, as it was really uneven, while I think Bibby has one of the best all-around flex ever created, which is why all reviews say they that bibby is a playful charger. No offence to ON3P, they make awesome skis. Just my experience

  21. #771
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    PNW
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    310
    Quote Originally Posted by Coo Fro View Post
    For a bit of background: I bought the Wildcat 190 this year to replace the Bibby 184, which I absolutely loved, and have been plenty pleased with the extra length and width and the weight of the ski the few times I've had it out so far this year. I also own the 184 Deathwish which, thanks to recent remount from tour to demo clamps, I have been enjoying the F#@K out of this past month. I used to own the 181 Meridian 107 which was a lot of fun and I spent a couple days demo'ing the Kartel 108 last year. Have NOT been on the Kartel 116 but can't imagine it's as sweet as the Wildcat/Bibby. So with all that being said, I would rec the Deathwish as a 1 ski quiver for SW MT skier who likes to ski both ways. Probably followed by the Kartel 108, which I nearly...and may still...bought/buy. I don't think you can go wrong with any of those but the versatility and sweet spot for the DW is really quite remarkable.
    Quote Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk View Post
    Yeap, Wildcat is just an improved layup, shape is the same.
    I'm almost same as you - 5'10, 155. I skied Bibby and Kartel 108 both. Haven't skied Kartel 116 though, so someone will say that's not a proper comparison. That also won't be a popular opinion on this forum, but I'd prefer Bibby to Kartel everyday. I just felt that Kartel isn't chargy nor very playful. At least for my height/weight. They are noticeably heavier than Bibby which affected playfullness for me. I haven't felt any additional dampness, probably also due to my weight. Also I disliked the flex on kartel, as it was really uneven, while I think Bibby has one of the best all-around flex ever created, which is why all reviews say they that bibby is a playful charger. No offence to ON3P, they make awesome skis. Just my experience
    Thanks for the comparisons. He actually ended up grabbing a used K116 after just missing out on a Bibby and DW. He's not a big gear junkie, but I told him the limitations and that it's really a versatile powder ski and not an everyday ski. He's open to the idea of watching for a thinner ski for firm/no fresh conditions. I just wish he would have got them sooner (they have to ship) so we could A-B the K116, Bibby, and Billy Goat on the same day. This thread has inspired me to keep an eye out for a 184 DW though.

  22. #772
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
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    2,519
    Quote Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk View Post
    Yeap, Wildcat is just an improved layup, shape is the same.
    I'm almost same as you - 5'10, 155. I skied Bibby and Kartel 108 both. Haven't skied Kartel 116 though, so someone will say that's not a proper comparison. That also won't be a popular opinion on this forum, but I'd prefer Bibby to Kartel everyday. I just felt that Kartel isn't chargy nor very playful. At least for my height/weight. They are noticeably heavier than Bibby which affected playfullness for me. I haven't felt any additional dampness, probably also due to my weight. Also I disliked the flex on kartel, as it was really uneven, while I think Bibby has one of the best all-around flex ever created, which is why all reviews say they that bibby is a playful charger. No offence to ON3P, they make awesome skis. Just my experience
    Im sure the On3p crew wouldnt take offense to that.

    Im simply in the other camp when it comes to experience. That poppiness that everyone who rides moments seems to love is a thing Ive discovered I would trade any day for the damp feel of an On3p.

    Though I really would like to ride the newest moments. They really look like a tight product.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  23. #773
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by drbecks View Post
    Whats the feeling on 184 vs 190 wildcats? I have read the whole thread and dont think I saw much. Im 511 and 165lbs, so was thinking 184 would be fine.
    5'11 160, I ski 184's and love them 99.9% of the time. There are some days where I wish I had the 190's to blast through really heavy chop. FWIW, I'm a very freestyle oriented skier.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  24. #774
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Portland
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    2,976
    Quote Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk View Post
    Yeap, Wildcat is just an improved layup, shape is the same.
    I'm almost same as you - 5'10, 155. I skied Bibby and Kartel 108 both. Haven't skied Kartel 116 though, so someone will say that's not a proper comparison. That also won't be a popular opinion on this forum, but I'd prefer Bibby to Kartel everyday. I just felt that Kartel isn't chargy nor very playful. At least for my height/weight. They are noticeably heavier than Bibby which affected playfullness for me. I haven't felt any additional dampness, probably also due to my weight. Also I disliked the flex on kartel, as it was really uneven, while I think Bibby has one of the best all-around flex ever created, which is why all reviews say they that bibby is a playful charger. No offence to ON3P, they make awesome skis. Just my experience
    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Im sure the On3p crew wouldnt take offense to that.

    Im simply in the other camp when it comes to experience. That poppiness that everyone who rides moments seems to love is a thing Ive discovered I would trade any day for the damp feel of an On3p.

    Though I really would like to ride the newest moments. They really look like a tight product.
    No offense taken. That said, to contribute from a technical standpoint - if my memory serves me - you were on a 16/17 Kartel 108, so old flex profile that was park based (softer tips and progressive flex developed out of the Jeronimo park platform) compared to the current flex which is stiffer, more even, and designed as an all mountain platform - so feels worthwhile to clarify which models (16/17 and before) those comments, at least pertaining to flex, would apply too. Damping and weight would be similar between models. If I am mistaken here, please correct me.

    The platforms are different in a few key design elements, so I've never felt they were in the same niche and it should be fairly easy to select the proper one for you based upon the key differences in their designs (as both as great for the right skier).

    Anyway, back to my holiday season cave.
    Seriously, this cant turn into yet another ON3P thread....

  25. #775
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbecks View Post
    Whats the feeling on 184 vs 190 wildcats? I have read the whole thread and dont think I saw much. Im 511 and 165lbs, so was thinking 184 would be fine.
    For your size, I think you'd be fine either way. Just depends on what you want the ski to be.

    Skiing lots of trees and want something easier to turn and more playful? 184. Skiing more open faces and want to charge harder at higher speeds? 190.

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