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  1. #776
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Tahoe
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    3,107

    Moment Skis Discussion

    Wildcat is more of an everyday ski, whereas the K116 was more soft snow specific for me. Wildcat still does great in soft snow as well, but its not as poppy/surfy/playful as the k116. However I couldnt ski the K116 in mank, wind crusts or refrozen reef for the life of me, but the Bibbys/Pb&Js handle that funk with ease. I never detune any of my skis though, and that might have played a role in the K116 feeling grabby in difficult snow. Both are great designs, just depends how much soft snow you use them in. K116s felt phenomenal in any sort of soft snow for me. On this matter, K108 design was more in line with the hard snow performance of the Wildcat/PB&J designs

    Kartel 116 feels more like the Bent Chetler than the Wildcat, although still different. Wildcats feel more like blizzard gunsmokes, but again still different. Thats a dumbed down way of describing it really, but I keep thinking this in my mind.
    Last edited by Betelgeuse; 12-21-2018 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #777
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    277
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    For your size, I think you'd be fine either way. Just depends on what you want the ski to be.

    Skiing lots of trees and want something easier to turn and more playful? 184. Skiing more open faces and want to charge harder at higher speeds? 190.
    Agreed. If you are between sizes for the Bibby/Wildcat, this is how you should choose realizing you'll likely be happy on either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    Wildcat is more of an everyday ski, whereas the K116 was more soft snow specific for me. Wildcat still does great in soft snow as well, but its not as poppy/surfy/playful as the k116. However I couldnt ski the K116 in mank, wind crusts or refrozen reef for the life of me, but the Bibbys/Pb&Js handle that funk with ease. I never detune any of my skis though, and that might have played a role in the K116 feeling grabby in difficult snow. Both are great designs, just depends how much soft snow you use them in. K116s felt phenomenal in any sort of soft snow for me. On this matter, K108 design was more in line with the hard snow performance of the Wildcat/PB&J designs

    Kartel 116 feels more like the Bent Chetler than the Wildcat, although still different. Wildcats feel more like blizzard gunsmokes, but again still different. Thats a dumbed down way of describing it really, but I keep thinking this in my mind.
    Thanks. That's basically what I figured based on paper. For my skiing, I could pretty happily ski the 184 Bibby as a one ski quiver. But what kind of fun is that? So nice to have at least a couple choices to match conditions and mood. I will make sure to talk to my brother about detuning though if he finds them grabby. I'm pleased with his K116 purchase as he'll love it in soft and it will help nudge him in to getting a more appropriate firm snow ski too. I have no problem spending other people's money.

  3. #778
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    216
    Quote Originally Posted by iggyskier View Post
    No offense taken. That said, to contribute from a technical standpoint - if my memory serves me - you were on a 16/17 Kartel 108, so old flex profile that was park based (softer tips and progressive flex developed out of the Jeronimo park platform) compared to the current flex which is stiffer, more even, and designed as an all mountain platform - so feels worthwhile to clarify which models (16/17 and before) those comments, at least pertaining to flex, would apply too. Damping and weight would be similar between models. If I am mistaken here, please correct me.

    The platforms are different in a few key design elements, so I've never felt they were in the same niche and it should be fairly easy to select the proper one for you based upon the key differences in their designs (as both as great for the right skier).

    Anyway, back to my holiday season cave.
    Scott, that was cute. It's amazing how you produce so many skis yet you remember some jong TGR post. And you remember everything correctly. I'll write you an PM as I had couple questions and I feel like it is incorrect to discuss on3p builds in this thread

  4. #779
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    79
    Attachment 261075

    My “new to me” 2015 PB&J 182cm with Attack2 13 Bindings to be mounted soon. Weighed in at 1920g and 1945g each or about the same as the Wildcat 108 would weigh.....😉

  5. #780
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Eastern WA
    Posts
    332

    Moment Skis Discussion

    Attachment 261157

    Hadn’t seen much talk of these yet, so I thought I’d share my .02. 184 Wildcat Tour 108 mounted with Atomic Shift 100. I kinda like the clean black and white look of the whole setup. Weights with shifts mounted are 2590g and 2594g respectively. Build quality looks excellent.

    Coming from a 190 Bibby Pro, which I really like, these do seem a tad short. Mounted at -1 which hopefully will lend a bit of stability with my inbounds boots and still keep me on the line with touring boots. I’m hopeful this will end up being a competent 50/50 travel ski.

    Took them out for a quick dawn patrol this morning. They go uphill nicely, of course nothing like a dedicated touring ski with ultralight bindings. On the way down, the Tour 108 handled various firm crusts and an icy groomer surprisingly well. Really no adjustment time needed coming from the 190 Bibby. Will hopefully report back on powder performance tomorrow.
    Last edited by bourbonisgood; 12-22-2018 at 09:36 PM.

  6. #781
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Winthrop, WA. Methow valley
    Posts
    742
    Those Wildcat Tour 108's just gave me an eruption.
    Attachment 261180


    Anybody got an actual weight on the Chipole Bananas? The weight they had listed seemed crazy light....like touring weight light.

  7. #782
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    North Worst
    Posts
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by bourbonisgood View Post
    Damn those are good looking. Nice set up, bourbon.

  8. #783
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thomas View Post
    Anybody got an actual weight on the Chipole Bananas? The weight they had listed seemed crazy light....like touring weight light.
    We'll update the weight after we build a pair, a lot of our construction techniques have changed since we last built a Chipotle Banana.

    The initial weight everyone saw was (I believe) the Meridian 107 weight, it was accidentally placed on the spec table of the Chipotle when we launched it on the website.

  9. #784
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Park City
    Posts
    3,026
    Speaking of Chipotle’s, mine came w no dimple etc. I mounted them center....thoughts?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  10. #785
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Livingston, MT
    Posts
    1,157
    Quote Originally Posted by detrusor View Post
    Speaking of Chipotle’s, mine came w no dimple etc. I mounted them center....thoughts?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    You want a measure on where the old recommended mount point was? I can’t recall what it was, but I could put tape on them and see. Probably be fine with a center mount on the CB, bitches are unsinkable and seem to have a large sweet spot.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  11. #786
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sonoma & Truckee
    Posts
    11,073

    Moment Skis Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by bourbonisgood View Post
    Attachment 261157

    Hadn’t seen much talk of these yet, so I thought I’d share my .02. 184 Wildcat Tour 108 mounted with Atomic Shift 100. I kinda like the clean black and white look of the whole setup. Weights with shifts mounted are 2590g and 2594g respectively. Build quality looks excellent.

    Coming from a 190 Bibby Pro, which I really like, these do seem a tad short. Mounted at -1 which hopefully will lend a bit of stability with my inbounds boots and still keep me on the line with touring boots. I’m hopeful this will end up being a competent 50/50 travel ski.

    Took them out for a quick dawn patrol this morning. They go uphill nicely, of course nothing like a dedicated touring ski with ultralight bindings. On the way down, the Tour 108 handled various firm crusts and an icy groomer surprisingly well. Really no adjustment time needed coming from the 190 Bibby. Will hopefully report back on powder performance tomorrow.
    Nice looking setup. It's nice to know I'm not the only one OCD enough to seek out the Atomic shifts so they'd match the white skis I'm mounting them on. ;-)

    Attachment 261740

  12. #787
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Park City
    Posts
    3,026
    If you have a free minute I would love a measurement, mounted demo’s so it will be easy to slide my boot


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  13. #788
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Livingston, MT
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    1,157
    Quote Originally Posted by detrusor View Post
    If you have a free minute I would love a measurement, mounted demo’s so it will be easy to slide my boot


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Straight pull tape measured from the tail, the recommended mount point is 34 1/2”.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  14. #789
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    732
    Recently picked some used 15/16 PB&J 188s on a whim (props to Betel for picking them up off CL for me in Tahoe). Figured I'd try them out since I love my Bibby 190s so much. I've always kind of overlooked them because they are only 101mm under waist, figuring the lack of width would hinder their performance. Well, my ingnorance has kept me from seeing the light, because I couldnt have been more wrong. After just 1 day I'm completely blown away, and nearly certain I want these to be my daily drivers for non pow days instead of other more directional skis like my Belafontes. It retains all the playfulness and maneuvarbility of the bibby, but I was VERY surprised how stable they were. I was litterally saying WTF to myself while straightlining choppy snow and steep ungroomed runouts. Was skiing my old full camber Belafonte 187 yesterday, and today on the PB&Js on the same moderately steep tracked up groomers I was able to RIPPPP hard fast GS turns with nearly the same stability and confidence. Again, WTF.

    I've come to realize the Bibby/Wildcat shape matches a stiff flex pattern with just enough taper and rocker to make an incredibly balanced, playful, and strong ski. Which leads me to my next thought, that if a 101 Bibby is so good, then a 108 would be even better. Its the perfect "narrower" non pow day daily driver to compliment a quiver with the Bibby.

    I'm all in on to petition for an inbounds version of the Wildcat 108, or coordinating a group buy to get one. I will pay full retail or more for one right now, because I know its going to be amazing and my search for the perfect DD may be over.

    Supre estimated the inbounds weight of the Wildcat 108 190 to be around 9.11 pounds which is 2,063 grams per ski. Thats fine, but I dont see any harm making them heavier around 2200 grams per ski with a Maple/Ash core, or something else. Which is still not that heavy for a ski that size, and is only going to make them better.

  15. #790
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    Recently picked some used 15/16 PB&J 188s on a whim (props to Betel for picking them up off CL for me in Tahoe). Figured I'd try them out since I love my Bibby 190s so much. I've always kind of overlooked them because they are only 101mm under waist, figuring the lack of width would hinder their performance. Well, my ingnorance has kept me from seeing the light, because I couldnt have been more wrong. After just 1 day I'm completely blown away, and nearly certain I want these to be my daily drivers for non pow days instead of other more directional skis like my Belafontes. It retains all the playfulness and maneuvarbility of the bibby, but I was VERY surprised how stable they were. I was litterally saying WTF to myself while straightlining choppy snow and steep ungroomed runouts. Was skiing my old full camber Belafonte 187 yesterday, and today on the PB&Js on the same moderately steep tracked up groomers I was able to RIPPPP hard fast GS turns with nearly the same stability and confidence. Again, WTF.

    I've come to realize the Bibby/Wildcat shape matches a stiff flex pattern with just enough taper and rocker to make an incredibly balanced, playful, and strong ski. Which leads me to my next thought, that if a 101 Bibby is so good, then a 108 would be even better. Its the perfect "narrower" non pow day daily driver to compliment a quiver with the Bibby.

    I'm all in on to petition for an inbounds version of the Wildcat 108, or coordinating a group buy to get one. I will pay full retail or more for one right now, because I know its going to be amazing and my search for the perfect DD may be over.

    Supre estimated the inbounds weight of the Wildcat 108 190 to be around 9.11 pounds which is 2,063 grams per ski. Thats fine, but I dont see any harm making them heavier around 2200 grams per ski with a Maple/Ash core, or something else. Which is still not that heavy for a ski that size, and is only going to make them better.
    I completely agree and am quite amazed the 108 wildcat hasn’t been made yet as this is the perfect do it all width and I would think it could sell a ton. My guess is maybe they don’t want to copy on3ps lineup too much in terms of profile/width but honestly they’re pretty different in terms of flex profile...so not too sure

  16. #791
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
    Posts
    2,534
    I sort of think they should copy it a little.

    The k108 sells absurdly well.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  17. #792
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    voting in seattle
    Posts
    4,036
    116/108mm is hardly a unique size set to Moment and ON3P... just go through every brand and you’ll find a 106 or 108mm ski.

    Not sure what ON3P a Wildcat 108 Tour would be ‘copying.’ My Wildcat Tours ski nothing like my K108s, I don’t see the 108 changing that.

    Edit to add relevant content. I have about 5 days of mixed touring and resort on my Wildcat Tours (184/116mm) with Shifts mounted at -1cm mark. Great ski so far (4/5, potential for 5/5 if the dumb twin tip went away. I rate most ski a 3/5 or 2/5 BTW). It can hang in the resort but you defiantly know you’re on something light when things start getting tracked and consolidated. Float is great for a short 184. Originally I had been a little worried about the length as they run short. For touring however, this is a great length, especially as local conditions have kept me stuck to moving up and down more densely treed ridgelines. On firm snow there is plenty enough edge grip to stay confident and produce a smooth and clean turn. I feel comfortable working down form chutes to get to the powder below in the apron. Ski flows from turn to turn smoothly and doesn’t feel hooky and the tail doesn’t carry you across the hill, but still easy to turn.

    Last week or so I got a chance to ski with a co-worker from CO who has many days on his pair and he noticed the difference in the ski from the continental snow to the maritime snow. In CO he has no issues using this as his resort pow ski too, but agreed it was too light for regular resort use in the PNW (grew up skiing Alpental, moved to CO a couple years ago).

    I originally got this ski as a loaner to try out this winter. Having skied it a few times I think I’ll hang on to them at the end of the season, and put either Kingpin or Tectons on them, to lighten everything up. moving the shifts to another ski.
    Last edited by XavierD; 12-28-2018 at 10:06 AM.

  18. #793
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    602
    Nobody is saying that 100ish/106-8/116mm ski lines are unique to ON3P, only that it sure seems to work for ON3P (and as such would probably work fine for Moment as well in across a line of killer a particular shape/function). For that matter, nobody but you are comparing k108s with tW108s either

    As I am sure you know, there is no non-tour 108mm Bibby-based design in Moment's lineup. The people above you are just asking for there to be one (full core, not tour layup), hence the "copying" part since Kartels come in three sizes with resort oriented layups. As such the copying part has to do with the three ski line up of playful chargers with full tilt layups, not copying the actual design of k108s

    and yes, sorry for stating the obvious as you probably understood what is written in this post already

  19. #794
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    voting in seattle
    Posts
    4,036
    Sure; that’s industry wide though.

    Tracer 118, 108, 98,
    QST 118, 106, 99, 98
    Rustler 11, 10, 9
    Kore 117, 105, 99, 93
    Pinnacle 118, 105, 95
    Sick day 114, 104, 94

  20. #795
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    3,107

    Moment Skis Discussion

    I want a PB&J with metal

    I have some 196 Governors I’m going to get rid of. Lemme know if anyone wants em’

  21. #796
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    473
    Thanks for the stoke XavierD!

    You guys can also count me in for a heavy core 190 wildcat 108

  22. #797
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    79
    Great minds think alike as I had my new to me 2015 182cm PB&Js out on Boxing Day and loved them. When asked what they were like, I thought “like a mini Bibby”. My PB&Js weigh about 150 grams heavier than current 2019 ones and about the same weight as what a Wildcat non tour 108 would weigh if current Wildcat construction is kept the same.

    The PB&Js were very good in crud but a bit more weight would make a Wildcat 108 great in crud like my Bibby’s. I also wondered how to increase the weight a bit on a Wildcat 108 without changing the ski too much.

    Was told that Moment had “no current plans” to build a 108 non tour Wildcat but I could order one for $999 including core and topsheet/base graphic changes. Thought they offered the PB&Death at regular price if a group of 10 agreed on one topsheet(I’m good with current Regular Wildcat topsheet and base) but I never saw if that ever panned out. Seems to be interest in this ski.

  23. #798
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    602
    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Sure; that’s industry wide though.
    yup, I guess any of those other lines could have been the comparison as well So you could say they are trying to prevent Moment for being the odd man out, left out in the cold That being said, I am sure the good folks over at Moment are fairly comfortable with their current lineup though, sans the wildcat 108 in regular layup. If not it would probably already be offered. More options is not necessarily better from a manufacturing point of view.

    As for why ON3P was mentioned and not the other ones you listed, I am guessing they probably chose ON3P due them both being smaller brands with overlapping demographics and strong TGR following

  24. #799
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
    Posts
    2,534

    Moment Skis Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    116/108mm is hardly a unique size set to Moment and ON3P... just go through every brand and you’ll find a 106 or 108mm ski.

    Not sure what ON3P a Wildcat 108 Tour would be ‘copying.’ My Wildcat Tours ski nothing like my K108s, I don’t see the 108 changing that.

    Edit to add relevant content. I have about 5 days of mixed touring and resort on my Wildcat Tours (184/116mm) with Shifts mounted at -1cm mark. Great ski so far (4/5, potential for 5/5 if the dumb twin tip went away. I rate most ski a 3/5 or 2/5 BTW). It can hang in the resort but you defiantly know you’re on something light when things start getting tracked and consolidated. Float is great for a short 184. Originally I had been a little worried about the length as they run short. For touring however, this is a great length, especially as local conditions have kept me stuck to moving up and down more densely treed ridgelines. On firm snow there is plenty enough edge grip to stay confident and produce a smooth and clean turn. I feel comfortable working down form chutes to get to the powder below in the apron. Ski flows from turn to turn smoothly and doesn’t feel hooky and the tail doesn’t carry you across the hill, but still easy to turn.

    Last week or so I got a chance to ski with a co-worker from CO who has many days on his pair and he noticed the difference in the ski from the continental snow to the maritime snow. In CO he has no issues using this as his resort pow ski too, but agreed it was too light for regular resort use in the PNW (grew up skiing Alpental, moved to CO a couple years ago).

    I originally got this ski as a loaner to try out this winter. Having skied it a few times I think I’ll hang on to them at the end of the season, and put either Kingpin or Tectons on them, to lighten everything up. moving the shifts to another ski.
    Really appreciate the review. Do you ever find yourself wanting the 190? Do you think the added length would improve the ski at all?

    Edit: correct the autocorrect
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  25. #800
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    602
    great info/review XD! Very interesting to get feedback on this ski.

    I was oh so close to ordering a pair once the first came out, but went with something a bit slimmer for longer days and multiple day trips.

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