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  1. #801
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    I want a PB&J with metal

    I have some 196 Governors Im going to get rid of. Lemme know if anyone wants em
    Id be in for a group buy on the PB&Metal if anyone wants to get it organized.

  2. #802
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    3,107

    Moment Skis Discussion

    I really like the standard pbj, its amazing actually, but at 210lbs and never skiing park, I think metal would do me some good in this ski. Basically the commander 98 layup in the pbj. The ski is so good in windfunk and crud as is, I just think with metal it would be a class leader for directional chargers who wants a freestyle twin shape. Heck, Id put metal in a wildcat 108 too, and possibly 190 Wildcat 118(eat that nordica helldorado!)

    I am really getting curious about the moment mustache shape and a metal layup. I believe the Nordica Helldorados sold almost as well as Patrons too (same with super 7s to s7s) and hopefully that would happen with metal wildcats. There could be a solid market for a design like that, and noone is doing that much anymore. A fun shape, with metal..

    That being said, purchasing a custom pair is not something I can go for until after I move out of my Moms and get a career going of some sort. The days of me dropping lots of $ on skis is heading into an intermission.

    Im hoping for 2021 I can customize 2 pairs of moment skis


    Sent from my

  3. #803
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    8,575
    I mentioned it up thread, but I got some whitedot directors this year. They really do ski like a skinny bibby. 107 underfoot, 25m radius, no metal but decently stiff, a fair amount of tip and tail rocker.

    Not 100% identical to the bibby - directors are a bit stiffer, and don't have any camber underfoot. But everything I like about my bibby's is present in the director, with the expected upsides / versatility of a narrower ski.

  4. #804
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,624
    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    Recently picked some used 15/16 PB&J 188s on a whim (props to Betel for picking them up off CL for me in Tahoe). Figured I'd try them out since I love my Bibby 190s so much. I've always kind of overlooked them because they are only 101mm under waist, figuring the lack of width would hinder their performance. Well, my ingnorance has kept me from seeing the light, because I couldnt have been more wrong. After just 1 day I'm completely blown away, and nearly certain I want these to be my daily drivers for non pow days instead of other more directional skis like my Belafontes. It retains all the playfulness and maneuvarbility of the bibby, but I was VERY surprised how stable they were. I was litterally saying WTF to myself while straightlining choppy snow and steep ungroomed runouts. Was skiing my old full camber Belafonte 187 yesterday, and today on the PB&Js on the same moderately steep tracked up groomers I was able to RIPPPP hard fast GS turns with nearly the same stability and confidence. Again, WTF.

    I've come to realize the Bibby/Wildcat shape matches a stiff flex pattern with just enough taper and rocker to make an incredibly balanced, playful, and strong ski. Which leads me to my next thought, that if a 101 Bibby is so good, then a 108 would be even better. Its the perfect "narrower" non pow day daily driver to compliment a quiver with the Bibby.

    I'm all in on to petition for an inbounds version of the Wildcat 108, or coordinating a group buy to get one. I will pay full retail or more for one right now, because I know its going to be amazing and my search for the perfect DD may be over.

    Supre estimated the inbounds weight of the Wildcat 108 190 to be around 9.11 pounds which is 2,063 grams per ski. Thats fine, but I dont see any harm making them heavier around 2200 grams per ski with a Maple/Ash core, or something else. Which is still not that heavy for a ski that size, and is only going to make them better.
    Skied the M1's yet?
    I'm curious to hear what you think about them.

  5. #805
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    3,107

    Moment Skis Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    I mentioned it up thread, but I got some whitedot directors this year. They really do ski like a skinny bibby. 107 underfoot, 25m radius, no metal but decently stiff, a fair amount of tip and tail rocker.

    Not 100% identical to the bibby - directors are a bit stiffer, and don't have any camber underfoot. But everything I like about my bibby's is present in the director, with the expected upsides / versatility of a narrower ski.
    you guys hiring?

  6. #806
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    732
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Skied the M1's yet?
    I'm curious to hear what you think about them.
    Got out on the Garbones the for the first time today. LOVE THEM. Thanks again for your help! Those old Pivots that came with them are toast (loose) so could only take a few groomer laps so far. Will be swapping on some newer Pivots soon. Here are the initial thoughts...

    Me: (Hammering GS turns as hard as I can) WTF?!? So freaking stable.
    Garbones: Is that all you got? This is slow. Hahaha (evil laugh)

    So so smooth and damp. I was going REALLY fast and felt like I was barely pushing them. Very composed and confident in a turn And for a 192 stiff ski, I didnt find them to demanding... yet. Need to get them in some chutes and steeps soon.

  7. #807
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    I really like the standard pbj, its amazing actually, but at 210lbs and never skiing park, I think metal would do me some good in this ski. Basically the commander 98 layup in the pbj. The ski is so good in windfunk and crud as is, I just think with metal it would be a class leader for directional chargers who wants a freestyle twin shape. Heck, Id put metal in a wildcat 108 too, and possibly 190 Wildcat 118(eat that nordica helldorado!)

    I am really getting curious about the moment mustache shape and a metal layup. I believe the Nordica Helldorados sold almost as well as Patrons too (same with super 7s to s7s) and hopefully that would happen with metal wildcats. There could be a solid market for a design like that, and noone is doing that much anymore. A fun shape, with metal..

    That being said, purchasing a custom pair is not something I can go for until after I move out of my Moms and get a career going of some sort. The days of me dropping lots of $ on skis is heading into an intermission.

    Im hoping for 2021 I can customize 2 pairs of moment skis


    Sent from my
    Ive been having similar thought on the freestyle shape with a stiff core and metal. Nobody really makes it, have put a few feelers out on the custom side.

    Most promising candidate is probably the ON3P titanal wrens when they exist, custom metal Kartels, custom PB&Metal or something from a custom shop...

  8. #808
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    Got out on the Garbones the for the first time today. LOVE THEM. Thanks again for your help! Those old Pivots that came with them are toast (loose) so could only take a few groomer laps so far. Will be swapping on some newer Pivots soon. Here are the initial thoughts...

    Me: (Hammering GS turns as hard as I can) WTF?!? So freaking stable.
    Garbones: Is that all you got? This is slow. Hahaha (evil laugh)

    So so smooth and damp. I was going REALLY fast and felt like I was barely pushing them. Very composed and confident in a turn And for a 192 stiff ski, I didnt find them to demanding... yet. Need to get them in some chutes and steeps soon.
    M1 special order this summer?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  9. #809
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    3,107
    Any information on the upcoming powder specific ski I heard rumors about for 2020 season?


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  10. #810
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    8,575
    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    you guys hiring?
    ....?

    There's a ton of discussion in here about people wanting a skinny bibby and/or making custom tweaks to various skis to get something along those lines. I'm just saying that, for those people, the directors are worth looking at. And because they're not from one of the 3 brands that tgr fawns over, they're probably not on most people's radar.

  11. #811
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    79
    Emailed Moment about the Wildcat 108 non tour and they would be able to add some weight to it as well over the standard Wildcat lay up. They thought changing composites would be the best route rather than changing wood types etc. Im sure as long as everyone agrees to a certain layup, they would be fine doing it in a group buy.

    Group buy would be for 10 buyers for each size and Im assuming 184cm and 190cm. Im interested in the 184cm myself.

    So, is there legit interest in this ski?

  12. #812
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    474
    Im 100% in for a 190

  13. #813
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    In rain shadow of the Sierra CC,NV
    Posts
    3,098
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    ...And because they're not from one of the 3 brands that tgr fawns over, they're probably not on most people's radar.
    White Dot?
    Hella interesting brand when they were fresh out of Great Britain.
    Nowadays, not so much.
    But what do I know.



    Sent from my SM-G930P using TGR Forums mobile app

    ...Remember, those who think Global Warming is Fake, also think that Adam & Eve were Real...

  14. #814
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by noslow View Post
    Emailed Moment about the Wildcat 108 non tour and they would be able to add some weight to it as well over the standard Wildcat lay up. They thought changing composites would be the best route rather than changing wood types etc. Im sure as long as everyone agrees to a certain layup, they would be fine doing it in a group buy.

    Group buy would be for 10 buyers for each size and Im assuming 184cm and 190cm. Im interested in the 184cm myself.

    So, is there legit interest in this ski?
    I'm in if there's enough interest. 184cm

  15. #815
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    3,107
    Damn, I want a 190 Heavy Wildcat 108, but dont know if I can get in on that yet. I have to sell my Governors first, and something else..


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  16. #816
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    732
    Quote Originally Posted by noslow View Post
    Emailed Moment about the Wildcat 108 non tour and they would be able to add some weight to it as well over the standard Wildcat lay up. They thought changing composites would be the best route rather than changing wood types etc. I’m sure as long as everyone agrees to a certain layup, they would be fine doing it in a group buy.

    Group buy would be for 10 buyers for each size and I’m assuming 184cm and 190cm. I’m interested in the 184cm myself.

    So, is there legit interest in this ski?
    This is great news. I was hoping there would be a way to add weight without changing the wood core. If we added maple to the core, I would be worried about that changing the feel of the ski too much.

    What "composites" did they say they would change?

    Should we start a group buy thread in Gear Swap? Im in for a 190.

  17. #817
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    79
    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    This is great news. I was hoping there would be a way to add weight without changing the wood core. If we added maple to the core, I would be worried about that changing the feel of the ski too much.

    What "composites" did they say they would change?

    Should we start a group buy thread in Gear Swap? Im in for a 190.
    Good idea on the gear swap listing.

    They didnt say which composites but usually manufacturers will just use heavier weight fiberglass sheets or additional fiberglass sheets to add weight, dampening and stiffness. Could be quite subtle changes compared to adding metal sheets in there.
    The Tour versions use lighter fiberglass weaves with fewer layers and lighter wood cores to reduce weight.

  18. #818
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    181
    The only thing I know is that one of the moment people told me it would be a unique shape that likely wouldnt accept skins... they said it was designed around Heli skiing.

    Maybe something like an update to the Comi?


    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    Any information on the upcoming powder specific ski I heard rumors about for 2020 season?


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  19. #819
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Norcal
    Posts
    342
    hmmm swallow tail coming back! Had fun on my old comis

  20. #820
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    3,107

    Moment Skis Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    This is great news. I was hoping there would be a way to add weight without changing the wood core. If we added maple to the core, I would be worried about that changing the feel of the ski too much.

    What "composites" did they say they would change?

    Should we start a group buy thread in Gear Swap? Im in for a 190.
    I just wouldnt want too much carbon. Like you had in Rx and I had in my SGs

    Glass all the way


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  21. #821
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    732
    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    I just wouldnt want too much carbon. Like you had in Rx and I had in my SGs

    Glass all the way


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Don't think it would be that, but we need to confirm. If we are paying above retail, I want details.

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  22. #822
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    732
    The Garbones make me feel like Superman. This is a VERY special ski. I'm honored to own them Attachment 262118

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  23. #823
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    79
    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuse View Post
    I just wouldnt want too much carbon. Like you had in Rx and I had in my SGs

    Glass all the way


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Agreed!

    Moment now uses 2 layers of fiberglass weave with the carbon already in the weave above and below the wood core on their skis. Guess this is one of the big reasons for improved weight consistency as well as reduced weight as they no longer have to add carbon stringers manually. Above the core there are 2 additional fiberglass layers. The binding retention area glass weave and an addititional layer of triaxial glass they have in the non tour version and both have no carbon in them.

    Think it might be as simple as a heavier weight glass on that additional non carbon layer above the core or maybe even going longer in length with the binding retention glass layer.

    Not sure what weight of fiberglass Moment uses but it comes in 22oz, 19oz and 16oz versions so Im sure it would be an easy tweak. Know ON3P use 22oz normally and go down to 19oz on their lighter layups.

    Carbon usually added to stiffen the ski and add pop without much weight gain but I think the balance of is good already in that ski. Some additional/heavier weight Glass will give us a touch of weight gain, touch of stiffness and a touch of added dampness which would be perfect I think. That ski would RIP!

    But Im not a ski builder although I did stay at Holiday Inn Express once....lol

  24. #824
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    3,107

    Moment Skis Discussion

    I already have the Pb&J and Wildcats though, so I dont see when I would pick a standard Wildcat 108 over either of those. If its firm, I pick Pb&Js, if at all soft or cruddy Wildcats come out. Wildcats rip firm as is, and could be a one ski quiver for me. Where the 108 fits in my quiver, I dont know..

    I want a Wildcat 108/101 with Metal. I want a metal charger twin. I think this shape would perform well with metal. Im going to have to customize my own pair down the road, and Im cool with that. 2021


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  25. #825
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,233
    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    The Garbones make me feel like Superman. This is a VERY special ski. I'm honored to own them Attachment 262118

    Sent from my Pixel using TGR Forums mobile app
    what year are those?
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