Moment Skis Discussion

[bigdude2468]

Well the plan was to get my lil ripper PB&J Carson’s & perhaps a PB&J for myself.....,

Yet after my daughter saw these on a screen larger than a phone, she went for em:
Attachment 246937

& after chatting more with Jake (awesome support), I passed on the PB&J & the Deathwish & the Wildcat for.....

A Commander 98 & a 178cm no less. My thinking is that it checks a bunch of boxes, maybe. I’ve tried for several seasons unsuccessfully to go sub 180 cm. I’m East based & only 140 pounds, yet the crop of 17x’s have been really lacking & squirrelly; pulling for the Commander to be the ski that gets me there. I’m also getting older & swinging a 188-192 all day & sustaining even pressure along such a long edge can detract from the fun.

Last box is a reference stick to utilize for testing other skis for ExoticSkis.com. Could not be more stoked with going with a Moment!

Reports to follow.

Our eight year old granddaughter picked this graphic for her Carson's last year also.

[doebedoe]

Interesting tidbit:

Moment -- to my knowledge -- uses the thickest base in the industry: 2.2mm on all their skis.

On3p uses 1.8. J Skis uses 1.8.

Most others do not list thickness.

I can't pretend to know how other aspects (layup, core density etc) affect base durability. But there ya have it.

[Melee]

Interesting tidbit:

Moment -- to my knowledge -- uses the thickest base in the industry: 2.2mm on all their skis.

On3p uses 1.8. J Skis uses 1.8.

Most others do not list thickness.

I can't pretend to know how other aspects (layup, core density etc) affect base durability. But there ya have it.

Base thickness is determined by what style of edge you use.

There are two main edge manufacturers in the world.

Most companies use CDW out of Europe like we do.

Moment does not use the thickest base on the market.

That being said we use the most durable base you can buy. 4001 Durasurf from Crown Plastics.

Our base and almost all other ski manufacturers use 1.3mm base.

That being said most European companies will use base from Isosport or Okulen which are arguably faster but are not very durable.

Crown does have a manufacturing facility in China mainly for K2, Line, Ride, etc but most of their skis use a much cheaper and not as durable 2001 series base from Crown.

ON3P is the main brand on the market that uses super thick 1.8mm base.

They also use 4001 Durasurf like Moment.

At Moment we see amazing durability with our bases and rarely see core shots (unless you're skiing at Big Sky).

When we tested the thicker 1.8mm base with thick edge there was tons of added weight to the ski, in addition, it made the ski way too damp and boring. This is why we have decided to stick with the 1.3mm base.

Myself and the other employees do not treat our personal skis very well, skiing over rocks and jibbing off random items intentionally knowing we can always go get a fresh grind or new skis if needed. That being said the abuse our base can take it amazing.

Lastly, we go one step further and apply an additional bonding layer to the back of the base that allows for an even better bond than how it comes directly from Crown.

[iriponsnow]

Our eight year old granddaughter picked this graphic for her Carson's last year also.

Awesome & thanks for your prior help/advice.

[doebedoe]

Base thickness is determined by what style of edge you use.

There are two main edge manufacturers in the world.

Most companies use CDW out of Europe like we do.

Moment does not use the thickest base on the market.

That being said we use the most durable base you can buy. 4001 Durasurf from Crown Plastics.

Our base and almost all other ski manufacturers use 1.3mm base (J Skis does not use 1.8mm base).

That being said most European companies will use base from Isosport or Okulen which are arguably faster but are not very durable.

Crown does have a manufacturing facility in China mainly for K2, Line, Ride, etc but most of their skis use a much cheaper and not as durable 2001 series base from Crown.

ON3P is the main brand on the market that uses super thick 1.8mm base.

They also use 4001 Durasurf like Moment.

At Moment we see amazing durability with our bases and rarely see core shots (unless you're skiing at Big Sky).

When we tested the thicker 1.8mm base with thick edge there was tons of added weight to the ski, in addition, it made the ski way too damp and boring. This is why we have decided to stick with the 1.3mm base.

Myself and the other employees do not treat our personal skis very well, skiing over rocks and jibbing off random items intentionally knowing we can always go get a fresh grind or new skis if needed. That being said the abuse our base can take it amazing.

Lastly, we go one step further and apply an additional bonding layer to the back of the base that allows for an even better bond than how it comes directly from Crown.

Great info, thanks.

Just FYI -- you should probably clarify some of this with people in your chat who told me otherwise earlier today, which is where I got that number. They said "2.2mm -- thickest base in the industry. on all our skis. even touring. no compromise. on3p is only one to come close." Probably screwed up edge vs base thickness now that I think about it.

J Skis website says 1.8mm. Someone cutting into J Skis to prove otherwise? Seems like it'd be pretty easy to verify if its true or not...and would be pretty bad to be advertising one thing and delivering something different.

[meter-man]

Melee, thanks for the inside scoop! Very interesting. I will say that I've beaten the bejeebus out of my 13/14 Bibbys, and they just won't die.

If you keep writing stuff like this, we're going to keep slavering over Moment's selections, and buy moar skis. I wonder if JLev is reading this thread to see how it's done.... :P

...and would be pretty bad to be advertising one thing and delivering something different.

Yep, that's called deceptive advertising, enforced by the federales (FTC).

[iggyskier]

Great info, thanks.

Just FYI -- you should probably clarify some of this with people in your chat who told me otherwise earlier today, which is where I got that number. They said "2.2mm -- thickest base in the industry. on all our skis. even touring. no compromise. on3p is only one to come close." Probably screwed up edge vs base thickness now that I think about it.

J Skis website says 1.8mm. Someone cutting into J Skis to prove otherwise? Seems like it'd be pretty easy to verify if its true or not...and would be pretty bad to be advertising one thing and delivering something different.

Suspect whoever you were chatting with meant edge thickness, not base. For the record, all ON3P edges are 2.5mm x 2.5mm and all ON3P bases are 1.8mm Durasurf 4001.

As for checking thickness, you don't need to cut a ski open. Just measure edge thickness and subtract 0.6mm and you'll have a decent idea on base thickness. Most teeth run 0.5mm to 0.7mm. Edge Thickness = Base Thickness + Teeth Thickness. Obviously note - all the list specs are pre-pressing & finishing will remove material from the starting thickness, though most manufacturers do their best to minimize the amount of material removed.

If you see anyone listing base specs of over 1.8mm thick, they just don't know what they are talking about or are incorrectly stating edge thickness. As Luke stated, most companies are on 1.2mm to 1.3mm base and use edges around 2.0 mm thick with varying widths (1.7mm on the narrow-end to 2.2mm on the wide-end is typical).

This is just a sample of some of the listed CDW edge profiles, to give you an idea on how the edges are shaped. In my experience, the number of edge profiles actually stocked is a much shorter list. I bet the Euro-mega factories have a bit more variety to choose from at volume though. The thickest edges we've been able to source match with base that is 1.8mm. There are a couple other profiles that can take a thicker base but we've never seen them available for purchase and order minimums to get custom edges are counted in years for us, so just not practical or needed.
Attachment 247019

The brands actually building their skis, or the few who don't but actually seem to care about getting tech specs right, do a good job of putting out accurate tech info. There are some brands we see consistently state that their base material and edge thickness are the same thickness, which is literally never the case, or use terms like "double thick" - which would be insanely thick edges & base and something no one is doing (like in our case, where a 1.8mm base is only around 38.5% thicker than normal 1.3mm base).

When I am talking marketing BS, it is stuff like this pulled from an online product page. Some of the worst offenders have just stopped listing base thickness these days, but there is still quite a bit of this misinformation around. Given how much I see inaccurate info marketed, I'm not surprised there is confusion around it.
Attachment 247007

[doebedoe]

Amazing info. Thanks iggy and melee. So hard for consumers to know what is bullshit and what is not. Threads like this make for more informed consumers and make them trust companies like Moment and On3p that much more.

[Melee]

Great info, thanks.

Just FYI -- you should probably clarify some of this with people in your chat who told me otherwise earlier today, which is where I got that number. They said "2.2mm -- thickest base in the industry. on all our skis. even touring. no compromise. on3p is only one to come close." Probably screwed up edge vs base thickness now that I think about it.

J Skis website says 1.8mm. Someone cutting into J Skis to prove otherwise? Seems like it'd be pretty easy to verify if its true or not...and would be pretty bad to be advertising one thing and delivering something different.

Sorry about the mixup. I'll go wack Jake over the head. He is VERY VERY knowledgeable but is human and can make mistakes.

Our edge is 2.2mm and the base is 1.3mm

If you scroll down on any of our pages you will see in the tech notes that our edge is 2.2mm.

[doebedoe]

I knew 2.2 sound crazy thick.

Jake is rad. You should probably pour him a beer instead of hitting him. As a Jake myself, that's what I'd prefer.

[Melee]

I knew 2.2 sound crazy thick.

Jake is rad. You should probably pour him a beer instead of hitting him. As a Jake myself, that's what I'd prefer.

I did both.

[skier666]

Base thickness...



I terrorize my Moments...I mean TERRORIZE, and FWIW they seem to last longer than they should.

[lemonhead]

Base thickness...



I terrorize my Moments...I mean TERRORIZE, and FWIW they seem to last longer than they should.

I have had the same experience with mine. I have sold moments with the amount of days on them that typically leads to the dumpster.

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[macon]

I have had the same experience with mine. I have sold moments with the amount of days on them that typically leads to the dumpster.

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Echoing this.

Rode my Meridians over rocks last season more times than I can count... saw sparks when I went through a shark field that I thought had a snow base, but didn't. Escaped with some roughed up edges and 1 small (2x2mm) core shot. Patched 'em and still going as strong as ever.

The skis are pretty damn tough.

[pembyguy]

I’ve some 2012 Bibbys that look barely one season old!! Bases look untouched!! Ridiculous!


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[Island Bay]

Never had a pair of Moment skis, but I’m seriously considering the Commander 98/108 as a travel ski, with either Cast or Shift bindings.
I have come to love metal charger skis (Pro Riders and Head Monsters), and the Commander makes sense to me for a 80/20 resort/tour ski for when you can only travel with one pair.
Comments or ideas?

[skizix]

I will add to the concensus that Bibby's are durable. I bought Bibby's (well, Blisters, but...same) at the beginning of last season. Two days were pow over nothing (no base), and I hit all kinds of rocks, some sickeningly hard. And on another day I accidentally skied over a ~10 foot cliff (puckered me up big-time, but I managed to land it - owing to the Bibby's awesome stability, but that is another topic), scraping hard going off the edge. All three days, I was sure I had core shots, but...hardly a scratch! Like: nothing that you would ever even consider ptex-ing. Edges have some minor impact marks, natch, but are 100% intact. Around 20 days and the skis still look great. The semi-cap topsheet is hardly nicked - and this is a tele mount, so tips and tails are clacking against each other quite a lot (I am normally hard on topsheets).

[Banh Mi]

Meridian 117 on steep and cheap for 449


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[jdadour]

Meridian 117 on steep and cheap for 449


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Stop tempting me!

[Banh Mi]

Do it!! They are beefier than Bibbys!


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[doebedoe]

Stop tempting me!

They flex as stiff as the belas I just sent you....just saying.

[jdadour]

They flex as stiff as the belas I just sent you....just saying.

YOURE NOT HELPING haha I actually like the sound of the that. If they are still there in November, I'll buy them.

[skier666]

For those of you thinking about the snowblades (when they make more)...these things are legit, burly, made the same as a real ski. Imagine a 99cm Moment ski with alpine bindings. They carve and are rad. For me, they are the ideal ski when skiing with my 2 year old...makes the whole process SO much easier.

[Banh Mi]

I said I’m done buying skis for the year, but I’m definitely buying a pair of blades when they are back in stock.


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[doebedoe]

@melee -- any chance ya'll ever gonna make the Strega available in the US in a length for US consumers... say a 182?

http://momentskis.jp/?p=5603