Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 132

Thread: KINGPIN RECALL

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    whistler
    Posts
    1,164
    heel pressure. wildsnow tried something similar before tecton when they tried a vipec toe with kingpin heel. did not play well together. ymmv.

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    348
    Quote Originally Posted by nickel View Post
    heel pressure. wildsnow tried something similar before tecton when they tried a vipec toe with kingpin heel. did not play well together. ymmv.
    Thanks nickel,

    First off, you of all people should say heel *breakage*. I do think that becomes the weak link in the system I proposed (note I did not suggest Tecton/Vipec toe).

    Second, as I recall the WildSnow experiment, the main problem was having a component that could both dump and provide elasticity/recenter sideways at both front and back of the system created the odd behavior. (would have been great if it worked!)

    In my hack, since the Kingpin toe should behave no different than a Plum/Dyna/Ion toe with regards to forward pressure, it seems the Kingpin heel would be getting what it needed from the front and behave as designed.

    Just hopeful there may be a easier solution than taking skis out of rotation for months...

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Norcal
    Posts
    412
    JPaul... I agree and will be trying something like this. The issue with G3 toe is stack height as it is taller than the kingpin giving a near neutral mount with kingpin heel. Some may like this especially those that tend to put spacer under toes to reduce ramp. Depending on your boot and preferences it may work well and cannot see any negatives. The link below will show which toes will work the best for your intended purpose. From looking over the spreadsheet the plum guide toes would work nicely.

    https://www.wildsnow.com/10733/get-u...for-your-ramp/

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    348
    Thanks roverdoc,

    That's a nice chart you linked to, will definitely consult if I go that route -> looks like lots of different ramp angle changes possible if needed.

    Cheers,
    Paul

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    whistler
    Posts
    1,164
    good memory. I went back and re-read the article and seems like you're correct.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    5,676
    Quote Originally Posted by nickel View Post
    heel pressure. wildsnow tried something similar before tecton when they tried a vipec toe with kingpin heel. did not play well together. ymmv.
    I was just reading this article and it just said it didn't work with the vipec pins, but didn't say whether that was pin shape, or the lateral release mechanism... Or something else.

    I think it's reasonable to expect that another standard tech toe without lateral release should work similarly, but there's obviously no guarantee.

    Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,885
    as a data point my buddy who broke all the hardware last seaon, 5 failures in total, has broken nothing this season
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    whistler
    Posts
    1,164
    I'm still waiting on my damn toes, not that anyone cares. I think I'm going to look into that bag of dicks delivery thing and send the Marker guys a few of them if the service still exists.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    5,676
    Quote Originally Posted by nickel View Post
    I'm still waiting on my damn toes, not that anyone cares. I think I'm going to look into that bag of dicks delivery thing and send the Marker guys a few of them if the service still exists.
    I lol'ed.

    Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    5,676
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    as a data point my buddy who broke all the hardware last seaon, 5 failures in total, has broken nothing this season
    Do you think you could ask him what his "serial number" on the heel is?

    I'm looking at a pair on Kijiji and it would be nice to know what year/product run they are from.

    Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    whistler
    Posts
    1,164
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    as a data point my buddy who broke all the hardware last seaon, 5 failures in total, has broken nothing this season
    I mean i broke nothing my first season on them. Then they imploded with 3 toe and 2 heel failures.

    I kinda feel like for me, the proof is in the second season for touring products.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    523
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    I'm looking at a pair on Kijiji and it would be nice to know what year/product run they are from.
    You read this forum and still want kingpins!? If you’re going to heavy touring binding route why not just get shifts? Potential brake release skinning is way better than exploding toes.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    4,644
    Amazing how the binding in this category that gets overlooked the most is the one with the fewest reported problems - Tecton.

    Heavier duty? CAST.

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    5,676
    Quote Originally Posted by PNW_Skier206 View Post
    You read this forum and still want kingpins!? If you’re going to heavy touring binding route why not just get shifts? Potential brake release skinning is way better than exploding toes.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I want lateral release at the heel to protect my reconstructed knee ligaments.

    Shift does not have that, and if you read the shift thread it seems to be having its own issues.

    Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    5,676
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Amazing how the binding in this category that gets overlooked the most is the one with the fewest reported problems - Tecton.

    Heavier duty? CAST.

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
    ... Also no lateral release at the heel... Otherwise it would be on my list.

    Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    mammoth
    Posts
    277
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    I want lateral release at the heel to protect my reconstructed knee ligaments.

    Shift does not have that, and if you read the shift thread it seems to be having its own issues.

    Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
    Wait what? The Kingpins release laterally at the heel? How can that be... is there a designated right and left binding?

    I have also recently had my ACL reconstructed after tearing it off a cliff drop. If this binding releases laterally at the heel that is news to me... and very good news at that.

    FWIW, I think the Shift issues are mostly user error with setup. My shifts have not had any issues at all.

    edit: this promo video seems to indicate that is the case at 1:56. Wow. That's big.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7w9RZF57Jg
    Last edited by macon; 02-12-2019 at 09:45 AM.

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    5,676
    Quote Originally Posted by macon View Post
    Wait what? The Kingpins release laterally at the heel? How can that be... is there a designated right and left binding?
    https://youtu.be/_7w9RZF57Jg

    Look around 1:57.

    I believe all classic tech bindings release laterally at the heel. Dynafits sure do.

    I've never fully understood why the knee binding releases laterally in only one direction but I think it has something to do with the fact that there is also lateral release at the toe. All other bindings have one or the other at the heel VS toe.

    Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    mammoth
    Posts
    277
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    https://youtu.be/_7w9RZF57Jg

    Look around 1:57.

    I believe all classic tech bindings release laterally at the heel. Dynafits sure do.

    I've never fully understood why the knee binding releases laterally in only one direction but I think it has something to do with the fact that there is also lateral release at the toe. All other bindings have one or the other at the heel VS toe.

    Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
    Yep, found the same video right before you replied. I wasn't aware any alpine heel besides the Knee binding released laterally at the heel.

    That's interesting, makes me kinda want a Kingpin setup despite the reliability issues. I do love the Shifts though.

  19. #94
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Truckee & Nor Cal
    Posts
    15,621
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Amazing how the binding in this category that gets overlooked the most is the one with the fewest reported problems - Tecton.
    I don't get it either. If safety is the main concern, I'm gonna go with the binding that hasn't had the toes exploding on people. IMO the Tecton has made the Kingpin obsolete. They ski way better too... and they're lighter!

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    mammoth
    Posts
    277
    @Shorty_J

    I don't know if you've read this article, as I'm sure it's been posted around here before, but it's commentary on ACL rupture vs Tibial fracture is interesting when comparing lateral toe vs lateral heel release.

    https://www.wildsnow.com/15123/tech-...cl-broken-leg/

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    4,644
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    I don't get it either. If safety is the main concern, I'm gonna go with the binding that hasn't had the toes exploding on people. IMO the Tecton has made the Kingpin obsolete. They ski way better too... and they're lighter!
    Yeah, I then realized the OP has an ACL concern, and of course I mentioned Tecton 'coz of all of the ballyhoo about the Shift.

    Anywho, to the OP's concern about heel release vis a vis ACL protection, enough people smarter than me claim this to be true ... in THEORY. I don't have the background to contest this.

    I'm unconvinced how this plays out in real world use cases, however - especially with a tech binder. The Knee binding stats provide very little information relevant to a tech binding.

    I get the idea of buying as much safety as is reasonable, but to my way of thinking, a Tecton stands a far greater chance of releasing to alpine binding standards than any standard tech binding does.

    I'd much rather "reliably" protect my tib/fib than unreliably (my assumption) "protect" my ACL.

    It's our old friend, the risk equation: probability times consequences.

    I'd have to vote Tecton from the probability side of the equation.

    If I'm goin' with standard tech (and I will for some Spring skis @grinch is sending my way), my dollars are going to ATK (Hagan / Black Diamond in 'murica).

    Marker has had too many chances to get it right and have repeatedly screwed the pooch.

    ---

    I can't believe this needs to be said, but ALL tech bindings until the release of the Vipec/Evo/Tecton released laterally at the heel.

    ... Thom

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    mammoth
    Posts
    277
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    I can't believe this needs to be said, but ALL tech bindings until the release of the Vipec/Evo/Tecton released laterally at the heel.
    I think we we're all already on the same page about that. My confusion came with the Kingpin having an alpine heel that released laterally - I thought it was a more standard alpine heel.

    Still not sold on marker, however.

    Clearly the holy grail of lateral toe & heel release is yet to be discovered. The trade for bad injuries comes down to fractured tibia vs torn ACL... and I'm not sure which sounds worse, but I'd wager the occurrence of a fractured tibia to be more likely.

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    4,639
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    I want lateral release at the heel to protect my reconstructed knee ligaments.

    Shift does not have that, and if you read the shift thread it seems to be having its own issues.

    Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
    There's no binding that's going to protect soft tissue . Bindings are designed to protect bones, which are a lot stronger than ligaments or tendons.



    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    5,676
    Quote Originally Posted by macon View Post
    @Shorty_J

    I don't know if you've read this article, as I'm sure it's been posted around here before, but it's commentary on ACL rupture vs Tibial fracture is interesting when comparing lateral toe vs lateral heel release.

    https://www.wildsnow.com/15123/tech-...cl-broken-leg/
    This discussion is a little tangent to the thread... Apologies.

    Yup, I've read that... That argument is the crux of why I want lateral heel release.

    In the backcountry I intend to ski more conservatively so retention as a safety mechanism isn't key for me... I.e. The odd pre-release (which I have never personally experienced on a tech binding) is ok with me, and if I'm in a no-fall zone I can up the DIN and lock the toes if I want.

    That and cost are the factors steering me away from the tecton, for now.

    I'm not sold on the kingpin yet, just considering my options. If I can get a deal and brand new stock that hopefully doesn't have the identified issues (xxx-er posted a comment suggesting this may be the case), it may be worthwhile for me to give it a try.

    I won't be skiing them in bounds and I won't be getting rad in the backcountry so I won't stress any binding as much as many others have.

    Honestly, I'll probably just go with cheap old model dynafits in the long run...

    Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    5,676
    Quote Originally Posted by macon View Post
    The trade for bad injuries comes down to fractured tibia vs torn ACL... and I'm not sure which sounds worse, but I'd wager the occurrence of a fractured tibia to be more likely.
    In that link you posted they showed that with alpine bindings, tibial fractures are low occurance and ACL ruptures are high. It's suggested that this is entirely due to toe rotation release instead of heel, and that those occurance rates would swap if alpine bindings were lateral heel release.

    Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •