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Thread: KINGPIN RECALL
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01-15-2019, 03:52 PM #76
heel pressure. wildsnow tried something similar before tecton when they tried a vipec toe with kingpin heel. did not play well together. ymmv.
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01-15-2019, 04:54 PM #77Registered User
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Thanks nickel,
First off, you of all people should say heel *breakage*. I do think that becomes the weak link in the system I proposed (note I did not suggest Tecton/Vipec toe).
Second, as I recall the WildSnow experiment, the main problem was having a component that could both dump and provide elasticity/recenter sideways at both front and back of the system created the odd behavior. (would have been great if it worked!)
In my hack, since the Kingpin toe should behave no different than a Plum/Dyna/Ion toe with regards to forward pressure, it seems the Kingpin heel would be getting what it needed from the front and behave as designed.
Just hopeful there may be a easier solution than taking skis out of rotation for months...
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01-15-2019, 07:20 PM #78
JPaul... I agree and will be trying something like this. The issue with G3 toe is stack height as it is taller than the kingpin giving a near neutral mount with kingpin heel. Some may like this especially those that tend to put spacer under toes to reduce ramp. Depending on your boot and preferences it may work well and cannot see any negatives. The link below will show which toes will work the best for your intended purpose. From looking over the spreadsheet the plum guide toes would work nicely.
https://www.wildsnow.com/10733/get-u...for-your-ramp/
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01-15-2019, 08:07 PM #79Registered User
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Thanks roverdoc,
That's a nice chart you linked to, will definitely consult if I go that route -> looks like lots of different ramp angle changes possible if needed.
Cheers,
Paul
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01-16-2019, 01:59 PM #80
good memory. I went back and re-read the article and seems like you're correct.
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02-11-2019, 08:15 PM #81
I was just reading this article and it just said it didn't work with the vipec pins, but didn't say whether that was pin shape, or the lateral release mechanism... Or something else.
I think it's reasonable to expect that another standard tech toe without lateral release should work similarly, but there's obviously no guarantee.
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02-11-2019, 08:47 PM #82Registered User
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as a data point my buddy who broke all the hardware last seaon, 5 failures in total, has broken nothing this season
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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02-11-2019, 09:44 PM #83
I'm still waiting on my damn toes, not that anyone cares. I think I'm going to look into that bag of dicks delivery thing and send the Marker guys a few of them if the service still exists.
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02-11-2019, 09:46 PM #84
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02-11-2019, 09:49 PM #85
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02-12-2019, 06:31 AM #86
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02-12-2019, 08:16 AM #87
You read this forum and still want kingpins!? If you’re going to heavy touring binding route why not just get shifts? Potential brake release skinning is way better than exploding toes.
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02-12-2019, 08:46 AM #88
Amazing how the binding in this category that gets overlooked the most is the one with the fewest reported problems - Tecton.
Heavier duty? CAST.
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02-12-2019, 08:51 AM #89
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02-12-2019, 08:52 AM #90
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02-12-2019, 09:24 AM #91
Wait what? The Kingpins release laterally at the heel? How can that be... is there a designated right and left binding?
I have also recently had my ACL reconstructed after tearing it off a cliff drop. If this binding releases laterally at the heel that is news to me... and very good news at that.
FWIW, I think the Shift issues are mostly user error with setup. My shifts have not had any issues at all.
edit: this promo video seems to indicate that is the case at 1:56. Wow. That's big.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7w9RZF57JgLast edited by macon; 02-12-2019 at 09:45 AM.
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02-12-2019, 09:44 AM #92
https://youtu.be/_7w9RZF57Jg
Look around 1:57.
I believe all classic tech bindings release laterally at the heel. Dynafits sure do.
I've never fully understood why the knee binding releases laterally in only one direction but I think it has something to do with the fact that there is also lateral release at the toe. All other bindings have one or the other at the heel VS toe.
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02-12-2019, 09:47 AM #93
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02-12-2019, 09:56 AM #94
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02-12-2019, 03:14 PM #95
@Shorty_J
I don't know if you've read this article, as I'm sure it's been posted around here before, but it's commentary on ACL rupture vs Tibial fracture is interesting when comparing lateral toe vs lateral heel release.
https://www.wildsnow.com/15123/tech-...cl-broken-leg/
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02-12-2019, 03:27 PM #96
Yeah, I then realized the OP has an ACL concern, and of course I mentioned Tecton 'coz of all of the ballyhoo about the Shift.
Anywho, to the OP's concern about heel release vis a vis ACL protection, enough people smarter than me claim this to be true ... in THEORY. I don't have the background to contest this.
I'm unconvinced how this plays out in real world use cases, however - especially with a tech binder. The Knee binding stats provide very little information relevant to a tech binding.
I get the idea of buying as much safety as is reasonable, but to my way of thinking, a Tecton stands a far greater chance of releasing to alpine binding standards than any standard tech binding does.
I'd much rather "reliably" protect my tib/fib than unreliably (my assumption) "protect" my ACL.
It's our old friend, the risk equation: probability times consequences.
I'd have to vote Tecton from the probability side of the equation.
If I'm goin' with standard tech (and I will for some Spring skis @grinch is sending my way), my dollars are going to ATK (Hagan / Black Diamond in 'murica).
Marker has had too many chances to get it right and have repeatedly screwed the pooch.
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I can't believe this needs to be said, but ALL tech bindings until the release of the Vipec/Evo/Tecton released laterally at the heel.
... Thom
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02-12-2019, 03:42 PM #97
I think we we're all already on the same page about that. My confusion came with the Kingpin having an alpine heel that released laterally - I thought it was a more standard alpine heel.
Still not sold on marker, however.
Clearly the holy grail of lateral toe & heel release is yet to be discovered. The trade for bad injuries comes down to fractured tibia vs torn ACL... and I'm not sure which sounds worse, but I'd wager the occurrence of a fractured tibia to be more likely.
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02-12-2019, 03:46 PM #98Rod9301
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02-12-2019, 03:50 PM #99
This discussion is a little tangent to the thread... Apologies.
Yup, I've read that... That argument is the crux of why I want lateral heel release.
In the backcountry I intend to ski more conservatively so retention as a safety mechanism isn't key for me... I.e. The odd pre-release (which I have never personally experienced on a tech binding) is ok with me, and if I'm in a no-fall zone I can up the DIN and lock the toes if I want.
That and cost are the factors steering me away from the tecton, for now.
I'm not sold on the kingpin yet, just considering my options. If I can get a deal and brand new stock that hopefully doesn't have the identified issues (xxx-er posted a comment suggesting this may be the case), it may be worthwhile for me to give it a try.
I won't be skiing them in bounds and I won't be getting rad in the backcountry so I won't stress any binding as much as many others have.
Honestly, I'll probably just go with cheap old model dynafits in the long run...
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02-12-2019, 03:53 PM #100
In that link you posted they showed that with alpine bindings, tibial fractures are low occurance and ACL ruptures are high. It's suggested that this is entirely due to toe rotation release instead of heel, and that those occurance rates would swap if alpine bindings were lateral heel release.
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