The wealthy, how'd they get there?

[Cono Este]

Look around you, apartments building, office complexes etc. Someone owns all that shit, and they have kids who will inherit it. Mostly idiots too.

I’m in Scotsdale all week and you should see the dorks driving brand new Ferrari’s. I never, ever, give anyone like that any credit for having worked for it. There are so few people who can afford a 500kbcar and started from nothing.

[Bobby Stainless]

you should see the dorks driving brand new Ferrari’s. I never, ever, give anyone like that any credit for having worked for it. There are so few people who can afford a 500kbcar and started from nothing.

Give them my number. ^

[St. Jerry]

Yeah, good point. Put away max in retirement accounts, pay taxes later at a lower marginal rate.

The millionaire next door is a real thing. Most financially secure people live well below their means.

The flip side is also true: Trying to look wealthy is a loser's game. I've seen way too many people go broke trying to appear wealthy.

Also, purge your brain of get rich quick schemes and dreams. For every guy who invented a widget and made big bucks there are 100,000 dreamers with little, zero or negative wealth.

Real life example:

My father worked for the State of NY and until the end of his career never made much more than $100k. So how did he become wealthy? Max out 401k (403b) plan for 40 years with full match and invest it mostly in equities. Never spent much on luxuries as didn't need to impress his fellow state workers. Still drives a 20 year old Volvo with 200k miles.

You do the math: http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator...calculator.htm

That's one way to go about it.

[DaveTV]

Read this book
https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-N...aire+next+door



Twenty years ago we began studying how people become wealthy.Initially, we did it just as you might imagine, by surveying people in so-called upscale neighborhoods across the country. In time, we discovered something odd. Many people who live in expensive homes and drive luxury cars do not actually have much wealth. Then, we discovered something even odder: Many people who have a great. deal of wealth do not even live in upscale neighborhoods.That small insight changed our lives. It led one of us, Tom Stanley,out of an academic career, inspired him to write three books on marketing to the affluent in America, and made him an advisor to corporations that provide products and services to the affluent. In addition,he conducted research about the affluent for seven of the top ten financial service corporations in America. Between us, we have conducted hundreds of seminars on the topic of targeting the wealthy.Why are so many people interested in what we have to say? Because we have discovered who the wealthy really are and who they are not. And, most important, we have determined how ordinary people canbecome wealthy. What is so profound about these discoveries? Just this: Most people have it all wrong about wealth in America. Wealth is not the same as income. If you make a good income each year and spend it all, you are not getting wealthier. You are just living high. Wealth is what you accumulate,not what you spend

[DaveTV]

See my last post. It is less WHAT you make than what you do with it. Learn to live below your means, invest with discipline and stop pissing all your dough away. And read that book.

TTHE SEVEN FACTORSWho becomes wealthy? Usually the wealthy individual is a businessman
who has lived in the same town for all of his adult life. This person
owns a small factory, a chain of stores, or a service company. He
has married once and remains married. He lives next door to people
with a fraction of his wealth. He is a compulsive saver and investor.
And he has made his money on his own. Eighty percent of America's
millionaires are first-generation rich.
Affluent people typically follow a lifestyle conducive to accumulating
money. In the course of our investigations, we discovered seven
common denominators among those who successfully build wealth.
1. They live well below their means.
2. They allocate their time, energy, and money efficiently, in
ways conducive to building wealth.
-3-
INTRODUCTION
3. They believe that financial independence is more important
than displaying high social status.
4. Their parents did not provide economic outpatient care.
5. Their adult children are economically self-sufficient.
6. They are proficient in targeting market opportunities.
7. They chose the right occupation.
In The Millionaire Next Door, you will study these seven characteristics
of the wealthy. We hope you will learn how to develop them in
yourself.

[leftfield]

Four pages and no one's cited this yet?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy

[DaveTV]

Four pages and no one's cited this yet?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy

Wrong. This is not about "class", or the "1%". The majority of affluent people do not flaunt it, and you would never know it. They are disciplined, smart about spending, drive older cars and buy things on sale. This is what got them there.. PS and it's not a "problem" either..

[DaveTV]

I see the degradation of the 90% in that article as a product of flawed policy (trickle down, aversion to European safety nets). Without strong domestic labor policy, industry will leverage factor price equalization to distort the market value of not only manual labor, but all non-managerial labor inputs. We can't get strong domestic labor policy with a political system that allows capital to act as a superior to voters, though.

So your point is what..?

[Bobby Stainless]

[iceman]

Wrong. This is not about "class", or the "1%". The majority of affluent people do not flaunt it, and you would never know it. They are disciplined, smart about spending, drive older cars and buy things on sale. This is what got them there.. PS and it's not a "problem" either..

And they die with a bunch of money! Win?

[Timberridge]

Or you get dementia and spend your retirement in the padded room like wooley.

I feel I might be trending towards that myself.

[AdironRider]

Something about the "most of them just got lucky" grinds my gears. Lucky would be winning the lottery or inheritance IMO, but I think the vast majority of millionaires (80%), worked their asses off to be in that right place at the right time, then on top of that, needed the conviction to take advantage of the opportunity when it presents itself.

Millions of dollars don't just appear. It takes work to even be in that position to take advantage of. Some of that doesn't result in direct monetary compensation or this socialist fairy take of equal effort should result in equal pay. Making the right decisions, whether it be deciding to get an engineering degree 20 years prior to patenting the next greatest widget, or not cheating on your wife and getting a divorce are just as important. Spending less than you earn is one of those decisions that has no immediate financial return but pays large dividends long term.

[DaveTV]

And they die with a bunch of money! Win?

The topic of the thread is "THE WEALTHY, HOW'D THEY GET THERE?" And the answer is in the research garnered in that book.. It's not hocus-pocus, it's hard work, living below your means and being smart with what you get. You don't have to die with it, just retire early and slowly drain it. I know so many people who make a lot more than I do, but they are perpetually broke.

The class divide is already toxic, and is fast becoming unbridgeable. You’re probably part of the problem."

You are confusing "class" with "wealth".

[Benny Profane]

Something about the "most of them just got lucky" grinds my gears. Lucky would be winning the lottery or inheritance IMO, but I think the vast majority of millionaires (80%), worked their asses off to be in that right place at the right time, then on top of that, needed the conviction to take advantage of the opportunity when it presents itself.

Millions of dollars don't just appear. It takes work to even be in that position to take advantage of. Some of that doesn't result in direct monetary compensation or this socialist fairy take of equal effort should result in equal pay. Making the right decisions, whether it be deciding to get an engineering degree 20 years prior to patenting the next greatest widget, or not cheating on your wife and getting a divorce are just as important.

They're lucky because they're white and middle to upper middle class. It can't be stated enough how white privelege is an important distinction in separating classes. There are hundreds of thousands of people of color in jail or carrying felony records to their grave for doing things much of us white folks do or did all the time, and we get off with good lawyers or simply a wink and a nod. Our safety net is much stronger, too. I worked for a company that provided a very comfortable life for some pretty dumb and incompetent Ivy League types that were lucky enough to be guided and sheltered all their lives within their families and social network. Christ, look at Trump and his family. If that ain't luck, what is? He's a lazy idiot, who inherited millions.

[Benny Profane]

Read this book
https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-N...aire+next+door



Twenty years ago we began studying how people become wealthy.Initially, we did it just as you might imagine, by surveying people in so-called upscale neighborhoods across the country. In time, we discovered something odd. Many people who live in expensive homes and drive luxury cars do not actually have much wealth. Then, we discovered something even odder: Many people who have a great. deal of wealth do not even live in upscale neighborhoods.That small insight changed our lives. It led one of us, Tom Stanley,out of an academic career, inspired him to write three books on marketing to the affluent in America, and made him an advisor to corporations that provide products and services to the affluent. In addition,he conducted research about the affluent for seven of the top ten financial service corporations in America. Between us, we have conducted hundreds of seminars on the topic of targeting the wealthy.Why are so many people interested in what we have to say? Because we have discovered who the wealthy really are and who they are not. And, most important, we have determined how ordinary people canbecome wealthy. What is so profound about these discoveries? Just this: Most people have it all wrong about wealth in America. Wealth is not the same as income. If you make a good income each year and spend it all, you are not getting wealthier. You are just living high. Wealth is what you accumulate,not what you spend

Yeah, but, one thing that book pushed ruined a lot of people in '08. Real estate stopped going up.

[Benny Profane]

Real life example:

My father worked for the State of NY and until the end of his career never made much more than $100k. So how did he become wealthy? Max out 401k (403b) plan for 40 years with full match and invest it mostly in equities. Never spent much on luxuries as didn't need to impress his fellow state workers. Still drives a 20 year old Volvo with 200k miles.

You do the math: http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator...calculator.htm

That's one way to go about it.

You forgot to mention the real valuable vein of gold, a state pension with cost of living increases. I wish I had COLA.

[AdironRider]

No fuck that.

People make decisions. I would wager that the vast majority of millionaires haven't been arrested in the first place. That decision was made long before they got themselves into whatever that situation would be FYI.

[DaveTV]

Yeah, but, one thing that book pushed ruined a lot of people in '08. Real estate stopped going up.

I don't see where that book pushed "real estate" at all. The stock market collapsed then as well, but anyone who had the balls to buy dirt-cheap stock/mutual funds 10 years ago and sit on it made out like a bandit. The basic tenet of the book holds true - work as hard as you can, live below your means and learn how to manage your money. This is not the mantra of the author, but what they discovered over and over when analyzing people who managed to become affluent. You probably have millionaires in your own neighborhood and don't even know it. Our system is set up to get you in debt and keep you there by convincing you that you NEED the shiny new car, the big house, yada yada... Ya it's nice to have all those things but if you ever want to get off/stay off the hamster wheel of debt so you can have a decent retirement, you need to re-think these things.

[Name Redacted]

Yeah, but, one thing that book pushed ruined a lot of people in '08. Real estate stopped going up.

But then it went up again... Just like the stock market.

[Benny Profane]

But then it went up again... Just like the stock market.

Maybe in your neighborhood, but, a lot of America is still hurting.

[Benny Profane]

I don't see where that book pushed "real estate" at all. The stock market collapsed then as well, but anyone who had the balls to buy dirt-cheap stock/mutual funds 10 years ago and sit on it made out like a bandit. The basic tenet of the book holds true - work as hard as you can, live below your means and learn how to manage your money. This is not the mantra of the author, but what they discovered over and over when analyzing people who managed to become affluent. You probably have millionaires in your own neighborhood and don't even know it. Our system is set up to get you in debt and keep you there by convincing you that you NEED the shiny new car, the big house, yada yada... Ya it's nice to have all those things but if you ever want to get off/stay off the hamster wheel of debt so you can have a decent retirement, you need to re-think these things.

It pushed owning a home and then rental property as solid personal investments. Which worked really well until the market crashed, and many were over levered at that point.

Its a good book, I read it, and I benefitted.

[AdironRider]

Rental properties are still good investments, and were through the crash if you didn't sell also. You only lost money if you sold. There are very few avenues to wealth as easy (relative here) to access as rental properties. They exist everywhere, and are attainable (again relative here) to all but the lowest of wage earners.

The book did have some flaws, notably I think their data set was biased towards a certain type of millionaire (aka the hustler who saves, which is naturally going to trend towards the tradesman that they trumpet).

The basic premise of the book though was solid, spend less than you earn, don't blow that lesser amount on frivolous showings of wealth, invest for the long term gain, not short term benefit.

[SumJongGuy]

Stable family environment, not moving due to poverty, access to tutors, music lessons, sports camps.. owning a car or several in the family to make holding a job easier. Decent healthcare access. Most of that equals born on 2nd base. College freenof debt and or already successful family business is stealing 3rd

[SumJongGuy]

Having weed in your car more thsn 50% Of the time or drinking but never getting searched over a.tail light or 5 mph over the limit is also a ground rules double.

[Conundrum]

No fuck that.

People make decisions. I would wager that the vast majority of millionaires haven't been arrested in the first place. That decision was made long before they got themselves into whatever that situation would be FYI.

I'm a white mail in the USA and I've been arrested more than once. I hammer my 401k and other retirement accounts, live in a modest house, and watch my spending. I probably should be investing in property too but I'm lazy and don't like much stress. If the models are correct, I'll retire with >$1m. I know that will be on the very low end of being a millionaire and at that point, would never call myself a millionaire. Point being, even with poor choices early, discipline is a powerful tool. Now, the market could tank and I'll work until I die... "Welcome to Walmart". But at least I have a shot of retiring comfortably on money I earned as a W2 employee. Unless you get "lucky", there's other ways to be wealthy. Everybody has a different definition of wealth though.