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  1. #576
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    north aspect
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    42,406
    i’m thinking a waterfront reset if that happens
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

  2. #577
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
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    21,340
    It's not like fire is a bad thing, unless of course you lose a house or life, but it is just a reset button. The rains will come, grasses grow to feed the deer who have been eating twigs and can now move about freely. Seeds will germinate in the fertile soil after their seed coats are burnt off. Big and small cats will feed on the fat prey as will owls and Raptors. Wildflowers not seen in years will bloom and shrubs will sprout from roots buried below the singed soil, and it will all start again. I look forward to hikes and see Calocortus, Fucia, Clarckia Mimmulus blooms, and maybe a few I have never seen before.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  3. #578
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    28,377
    just saw a post from a fire captain who said the Camp Fire moved at a rate of 80 football fields a minute.

  4. #579
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Central OR
    Posts
    4,744
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    just saw a post from a fire captain who said the Camp Fire moved at a rate of 80 football fields a minute.
    That's a lot of ground to rake.

  5. #580
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    10,379
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    just saw a post from a fire captain who said the Camp Fire moved at a rate of 80 football fields a minute.
    Yep, basically an acre a second.
    I swear on my glass eye,

  6. #581
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    north aspect
    Posts
    42,406
    83 dead
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

  7. #582
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    3,878
    Article on future evacuation planning in western Nevada County
    https://yubanet.com/regional/dr-jo-a...r-and-quicker/

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

  8. #583
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    28,377

  9. #584
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    9,772
    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Article on future evacuation planning in western Nevada County
    https://yubanet.com/regional/dr-jo-a...r-and-quicker/

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app
    I seriously doubt that any amount of traffic engineering and evacuation planning will allow a safe, orderly, rapid evacuation in the face of a fire like the Camp fire. Better to create communities or at least nearby fire-hardened sites where people can shelter in place or in the immediate vicinity. For example--people shelter at the local school with firemen with hoses defending the building. All trees and flammable materials cleared for a considerable distance. Carpooling with the flames bearing down? Seriously?


    so instead of helicopters and bombers we fly fighters over the fire at supersonic speed.

  10. #585
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    3,030
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I seriously doubt that any amount of traffic engineering and evacuation planning will allow a safe, orderly, rapid evacuation in the face of a fire like the Camp fire. Better to create communities or at least nearby fire-hardened sites where people can shelter in place or in the immediate vicinity. For example--people shelter at the local school with firemen with hoses defending the building. All trees and flammable materials cleared for a considerable distance. Carpooling with the flames bearing down? Seriously?
    This - it's the only way to attempt to address a fire like the Camp. Underground shelter might even be better - basically a bunker?

  11. #586
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,878

    2018 Wildfire Season

    Yes. Imo, there needs to be multiple solutions that are implemented. But the status quo needs to be changed.

  12. #587
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
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    21,340
    Code upgrades will make a big difference. They are going to cost a lot, and at some point might need to be required to retrofit houses. Not only are windows required to be double pane, most not must be tempered glass, and we have to have ours built with duel pane tempered glass. I might just make my curtains out of nomex as well.

    Our attic is required to be built as conditioned space, just like the house itself, so no regular vents and has to be vented like the rest of the house. No wood siding, all stucco or in our case "Hardy Board". All exposed wood has to be big, and therefore hard to ignite, I believe it has to be 4x6 or larger. Of course all new construction in our area requires indoor sprinklers, (add 40+K to the building cost).

    To name just of few of the new code (some not so new) since our house was built in the late 50s.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  13. #588
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    28,377
    What's new code on attic/soffit vents, hutash? Those things can rage with convective heat out roof vents as heat blast comes through, sucking embers into attics.

  14. #589
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
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    21,340
    I am not sure exactly what the new code is in our area. Just that the architect said there are no attic vents and that the attic is now consider conditioned space. I suspect that means fresh air will be drawn I. from under the house and into the main house and attic. I am curious exactly how this works and will be getting g more i do as the project progresses. Unfortunately our architect had so.e serious health set backs at the end of the design phase, so we havent been able to met with her lately.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  15. #590
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
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    9,772
    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    Code upgrades will make a big difference. They are going to cost a lot, and at some point might need to be required to retrofit houses. Not only are windows required to be double pane, most not must be tempered glass, and we have to have ours built with duel pane tempered glass. I might just make my curtains out of nomex as well.

    Our attic is required to be built as conditioned space, just like the house itself, so no regular vents and has to be vented like the rest of the house. No wood siding, all stucco or in our case "Hardy Board". All exposed wood has to be big, and therefore hard to ignite, I believe it has to be 4x6 or larger. Of course all new construction in our area requires indoor sprinklers, (add 40+K to the building cost).

    To name just of few of the new code (some not so new) since our house was built in the late 50s.
    None of that has reached truckee yet. Still building with wood siding, wood decks, vented attics. New construction does require sprinklers but those aren't going to do anything about a wildfire, obviously.

  16. #591
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,878
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    None of that has reached truckee yet. Still building with wood siding, wood decks, vented attics. New construction does require sprinklers but those aren't going to do anything about a wildfire, obviously.
    I believe FEMA is still giving grants for retrofitting roofs in CA. The retrofits typically include changing the roofing material to something more fire resistant and changing the attic vents to be more ember-resistant.

    Do indoor sprinkler systems typically work on a battery system, like if the structure has no power?

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

  17. #592
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
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    21,340
    Most are heat activated (plastic but that mellts) and then just use water pressure. That's assuming there is water pressure.

    One of the big problems in the Thomas fire, at least in our area was a lack of water due to shorter out pumps and back up generators. As I said before, our problem was a house to house fires. Had what fire resources we had in the area , and they were stretched pretty thin, had no water, so once a house went up, everybody down wind was fucked. There were a lot of random houses burned here and there in places, no doubt due to all the things listed earlier, but a couple of areas were just devastated as the fire jumped house to house. Whole blocks burnt. That was not from a random ember getting into a vent , but rather a fire storm.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  18. #593
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,878
    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    One of the big problems in the Thomas fire, at least in our area was a lack of water due to shorter out pumps and back up generators. As I said before, our problem was a house to house fires. Had what fire resources we had in the area , and they were stretched pretty thin, had no water, so once a house went up, everybody down wind was fucked. There were a lot of random houses burned here and there in places, no doubt due to all the things listed earlier, but a couple of areas were just devastated as the fire jumped house to house. Whole blocks burnt. That was not from a random ember getting into a vent , but rather a fire storm.
    Thanks. I bet many of the homes that burned in Paradise were structure to structure.

    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Article on future evacuation planning in western Nevada County
    https://yubanet.com/regional/dr-jo-a...r-and-quicker/
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I seriously doubt that any amount of traffic engineering and evacuation planning will allow a safe, orderly, rapid evacuation in the face of a fire like the Camp fire. Better to create communities or at least nearby fire-hardened sites where people can shelter in place or in the immediate vicinity. For example--people shelter at the local school with firemen with hoses defending the building. All trees and flammable materials cleared for a considerable distance. Carpooling with the flames bearing down? Seriously?
    i agree the carpool thing seems over the top. people making sure they aren't evacuating all their vehicles instead of just taking one seems more reasonable and realistic. there are several very old people on my street. if we have to flee, i'd like to think that i'll be stopping at their homes to make sure they are out. my neighborhood firewise committee has been working no evacuation planning for a few years with Calfire, USFS, County, and the local agency. it's been scheduled since this summer to ramp up with at least one practice in the spring. it'll be interesting to see what they come up with. there can be thousands of extra people in my neighborhood in the summer than in the fall (like when the Camp fire started).

    supposedly, there's a fair amount of $$ already set-aside to be thrown at solutions via a State bill signed in September, like grants from Calfire to treat private structures and properties. there'll be more $$ for Hazard Mitigation through the multiple the federal disaster declarations. Hopefully, there's a logic in how $$ is spent by agencies or responsible parties and challenging communities similar to paradise will get some attention.

    on that essay posted on yubanet, here's part of a FB post from a resident. I imagine there are similar issues throughout rural california:
    "There needs to be a cultural policy-level change within the County's planning department. When the ADU zoning change was proposed earlier this year, health and safety of evacuation of existing communities was brought up to the County's lead planner for the project. This idea was essentially blown-off and not addressed in any meaningful way by the planning commission. This issue can be addressed by the County through CEQA and through County policies.

    The reduction/removal of fuel adjacent to roadways is challenging for the County. It tried to get a large federal grant in 2007-2009 for this type of activity, which fell apart partially because of federal agency requirements, the nature of prescriptive easements, and the number of private properties involved. It will take a very proactive approach and high level of effort by the County to get it's ducks in a row for this type of project to be successfully implemented. Ideally, the County's approach also needs to serve as a model for similar activities along the private roads in the community. "

  19. #594
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    2 hours from anything
    Posts
    7,654
    Camp Fire is finally 100% contained. Tonight was the first clear sunset in a while and first time we could see the coastal range since it started.

  20. #595
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I smell poutine!!!
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    7,143
    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    I don't know anything about that stuff.
    That's never stopped anyone on TRG before.

  21. #596
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Wet and Mild
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    4,487
    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    Code upgrades will make a big difference. They are going to cost a lot, and at some point might need to be required to retrofit houses. Not only are windows required to be double pane, most not must be tempered glass, and we have to have ours built with duel pane tempered glass. I might just make my curtains out of nomex as well.

    Our attic is required to be built as conditioned space, just like the house itself, so no regular vents and has to be vented like the rest of the house. No wood siding, all stucco or in our case "Hardy Board". All exposed wood has to be big, and therefore hard to ignite, I believe it has to be 4x6 or larger. Of course all new construction in our area requires indoor sprinklers, (add 40+K to the building cost).

    To name just of few of the new code (some not so new) since our house was built in the late 50s.
    I'm glad to see non-vented roof assemblies are starting to become more commonplace. All exterior air entering the house should be passing through intakes with fusible-link dampers. I think modern building codes go a bit too far with regards to air sealing the conditioned space, but there are many benefits to moving away from riddling the envelope with passive vents.

    Going with a class A, non-vented roof, cement board siding (i.e. the Hardie product Hutash mentioned) and tempered windows will go a long way toward making a home more fire resistant, and is usually manageable from a cost standpoint, unlike poured concrete would be.

    Also, sprinkler head location is usually determined by "fire area" which is the total square footage covered by a roof or eave. We regularly saw sprinklers installed in the ceilings of covered porches, and in some cases along roof lines where the eaves were particularly large. The systems are designed for indoor fire suppression first and foremost, but depending on your individual home, and the way your local fire marshal interprets code, you may end up with some sprinklers outside as well.
    Be good, or be good at it.

  22. #597
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Redwood City
    Posts
    1,491
    "Great barbecue makes you want to slap your granny up the side of her head." - Southern Saying

  23. #598
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    10,379
    Vert cool video of the 2018 season in northern Nevada:
    I swear on my glass eye,

  24. #599
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    3,704

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