2018 Wildfire Season

[stalefish3169]

Yep. There are built out neighborhoods in the zones that may have power cut because the distribution or transmission lines that service the neighborhoods run through “wildlands” and pge is still decades behind in fuel reduction or under grounding their lines. It’ll be interesting to see how it’s implemented. So cal Edison is doing something similar but much more sophisticated where they will cut power in small areas based on real time observed wx data.

My whole career is powerline vegetation management and I've looked in detail at powelines all over the country for major power companies. I can assure you that PG&E's program is state of the art. Their territory is a lot bigger and gnarlier than most.

As for putting existing lines underground...that's basically not going to happen anytime soon. California's regulations make this very difficult and any lines that are going to be underground need to be underground during the time of the initial development from what I've been told.

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[bodywhomper]

My whole career is powerline vegetation management and I've looked in detail at powelines all over the country for major power companies. I can assure you that PG&E's program is state of the art. Their territory is a lot bigger and gnarlier than most.

As for putting existing lines underground...that's basically not going to happen anytime soon. California's regulations make this very difficult and any lines that are going to be underground need to be underground during the time of the initial development from what I've been told.

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Thanks for input. So all the western state utilities suck at it? I can see that being the case. The perception is that pge is behind compared to sce in terms of veg mgmt and solutions.

Where I live, there was over a decade of deferred maintenance on their distribution line easements. Trees being surveyed and marked annually but never cut or limbed. There are many distribution lines utilizing trees instead of poles. Since the drought and the beetle infestation, many of those trees are now dead and have been butt cut (is that the right term?) above the point where the line is attached.

To me, it’s an analogous example of the general poor management of the western forests. And of course the large solution to getting shit together will be run into its own set of environmental, social, and political problems. I picture the smoke in the tahoe basin when landscape-level prescribed burns occur and wonder if the basin community and decisionmakers will really let it occur.

[stalefish3169]

To be fair I only started working in the industry in 2011 near the beginning of the NERC LiDAR boom (https://insurancenewsnet.com/oarticl...Alert-a-271367) and can't comment too much on conditions before that other than what you said...most utilities suck, or have previously sucked, at vegetation management.

AFAIK, PG&E is one of only a few utilities to use LiDAR at a major scale on distribution projects. Many other companies are years behind them and are literally shaping their programs after PG&E. Compared to what I've seen in terms of encroaching vegetation near distribution lines in Illinois, Alabama, Connecticut, etc., PG&E has done a much better job maintaining their lines.

Finally, it's a catch 22 like you say, especially with distribution. Getting permission from private land owners is challenging and they often put up a ton of resistance about getting their beloved trees trimmed or removed. But there is plenty of finger pointing after homes in tinder boxes with no defensible space burn down. It's going to be a mess for a while to come. The great drought of the last few years in CA has made fire conditions much worse, but it may be the catalyst utilities and citizens needed to get more realistic.

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[bodywhomper]

In my neighborhood, only in the past 3 years, the pge contractors have very concise discussion point about the tree trimming and removal. They often have copies of the deeds and regs with them to allows them to go pretty far back away from the lines. They’ve been removing mature trees that have been a “hazard” since they strung up the lines in the 50’s and 60’s. Neighbors who were the original homeowner (very old!) have had healthy and mature oaks dropped that were overhanging the lines and the lines were strung under the overhang. Over the past 3 years, there were some initial wft reactions the the trimming/removal followed by letting them do it because they can followed by gratitude because of the mass pine beetle kills in the area.

Regarding defensible space, in my hood, there are plenty of homes w/ more than adequate defensible space, extra above ground water tanks, etc. which would be very helpful for firefighters to defend homes. Depending on the source and direction of fire, calfire may not chose to try to defend my larger neighborhood. Part of that problem is that my area is intermingled with large federal (blm) and state (parks) owned parcels that are not maintained and loaded. It’s part of the appeal of the area but also part of the hazard.

[KQ]

Had four fires pop up in the as many days. Dreaming of rain or at least no wind and a bit of humidity. Feels like I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[KQ]

[wyeaster]

we were at joseph h stewart state rec area about an hour from crater lake and then at doe point/lake of the woods for 5 nights and the air quality sucked. amazing sunsets and interesting and intense driving views. it was not pleasant but not intolerable under the circumstances and everywhere we went was nearly empty from cancellations. the sky was blue by the time we hit wildlife safari.

[stalefish3169]

In my neighborhood, only in the past 3 years, the pge contractors have very concise discussion point about the tree trimming and removal. They often have copies of the deeds and regs with them to allows them to go pretty far back away from the lines. They’ve been removing mature trees that have been a “hazard” since they strung up the lines in the 50’s and 60’s. Neighbors who were the original homeowner (very old!) have had healthy and mature oaks dropped that were overhanging the lines and the lines were strung under the overhang. Over the past 3 years, there were some initial wft reactions the the trimming/removal followed by letting them do it because they can followed by gratitude because of the mass pine beetle kills in the area.

Regarding defensible space, in my hood, there are plenty of homes w/ more than adequate defensible space, extra above ground water tanks, etc. which would be very helpful for firefighters to defend homes. Depending on the source and direction of fire, calfire may not chose to try to defend my larger neighborhood. Part of that problem is that my area is intermingled with large federal (blm) and state (parks) owned parcels that are not maintained and loaded. It’s part of the appeal of the area but also part of the hazard.

Glad to hear the discussions with land owners are getting better. Nice to know you're well defened too. Hope both of these continue to improve. Large swaths of Santa Rosa burning the fuck down last year probably struck fear into a lot of people that may have ignored this type of stuff in the past.

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[bodywhomper]

Glad to hear the discussions with land owners are getting better. Nice to know you're well defened too. Hope both of these continue to improve. Large swaths of Santa Rosa burning the fuck down last year probably struck fear into a lot of people that may have ignored this type of stuff in the past.

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Some of the areas burned in Santa Rosa were not designated by the state or locals as having a wildfire hazard.... I’m not sure if the state is re-evaluating how they complete their mapping.

[stalefish3169]

Some of the areas burned in Santa Rosa were not designated by the state or locals as having a wildfire hazard.... I’m not sure if the state is re-evaluating how they complete their mapping.

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant. Things are different now and areas previously assumed to be safe need to be reevaluated.

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[neufox47]

The Peshtigo Fire in WI burned 1.5 million acres in 3 days. Fire was so hot it produced 2000 degree winds traveling 100 mph. Good example of how we can really fuck up nature. Then it was through dumb logging practices.

[bodywhomper]

Calfire hinted at changing evacuation policy to be pre-emptive to WX forecasts. Stating similarity to hurricane evacuations. That would be interesting!

[plugboots]

This is either 80% or 95% contained.



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[KQ]

WIND TURBINE CAUSES FIRE: A wind turbine near Arlington OR caught fire last night and caused a wildfire.

Two train trestles were destroyed and the fire burned 2,000 acres before it was stopped. No evacuations were needed.

[Meadow Skipper]

^ Oops!

Check out this cool sim table exhibit of the Carr fire in CA:
https://www.facebook.com/stacynabby/...16995185375561

I’m not sure about the significance of the knife on the right.

[bodywhomper]

Eastern lake county today. On highway 20

[KQ]

Combine fire. Wheat harvest is dangerous!

[bobz]

Winds are picking up this weekend in NorCal. Parts of Ukiah are being told to listen for evac orders, while western Clear Lake communities are more directly threatened. The wind will be bad news for the Carr fire area as well.

[yeahman]

Heard Yosemite is being evacuated for the weekend.

[bobz]

Yes, Ferg fire has reached 120 between the BOF entrance and Crane, so as of now, only the east entrance and Tioga Road are open to the public. Presumably its northward progress will stall due to the Rim fire having burned things there just a few years ago. Yose Valley has been closed for at least a week now, but isn't threatened by fire.

Oh, and just heard that the two big Mendo fires have merged into one. (edit: nope, they retracted that one, fires are still separated by a few miles)

[bodywhomper]

Anybody understand the dynamics of ash “storms.” We had a brief raining of ash this morning, but no new fires that I’m aware of. We have had pretty bad smoke at my place on and off for over a week but no ash until this morning. My brief time in napa and lake county yesterday, I saw no ash, but the worst wildfire smoke I’ve experienced. I’ve experienced ash before, both fine particle, like this morning, and big flakes.

[PB]

It's a complex, multi-variant situation. That's all I got.

We started to get ash fall yesterday in the early afternoon, at the same time the smoke dropped down to ground level and I locked myself indoors. We're on the west side Sacramento, and I was told by those better informed than I that it was because the Ranch fire over in Lake County crested the Vaca hills moving toward us and brought with it an easterly air movement. Still smoky and ashy this AM.

[Game Over]

Smoke made it up here to the EUG a hour or two ago

[Game Over]

Combine fire. Wheat harvest is dangerous!

Several hundo grand burned up. Plus the crop loss ☹️

[AKPogue]

The Peshtigo Fire in WI burned 1.5 million acres in 3 days. Fire was so hot it produced 2000 degree winds traveling 100 mph. Good example of how we can really fuck up nature. Then it was through dumb logging practices.

Could you explain why the logging practices caused the fire? I'm just curious because I have no clue.