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  1. #2076
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Eh. I think the motivations behind the decision are pretty easy to understand, and have nothing to do with a desire to drive the conversation/debate between ebikes and pedal bikes. The current administration wants to loosen regulation as much as possible. This was a really easy one that they figured they could easily do. They don't give a fuck about ebikes, it was just a way to make things less regulated.

    The potential impact on the conversation about access, for both pedal bikes and ebikes, is huge however.

    I'm not anti ebike, and agree that managing them the same way as motos doesn't make sense. But they ain't the same as pedal bikes either, and equating the two doesn't make sense. Hopefully the end result will be that sensible distinctions and management strategies will be drawn between pedal bikes, ebikes. and motos, but the way the order is written doesn't give me a lot of hope.
    Why isn't a class 1 e bike a mountsin bike?

    Instead of second guessing, look at Europe, where virtually no serious mountain biker will buy a non electric mountain bike today. And all class 1 are considered to be the same as Mountan bikes

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  2. #2077
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    Allowing E-bikes on NPS land would quickly change the riding demographic here in Acadia National Park on the Carriage Roads and the Park Loop Road. Many more rental tourons zipping around I think. Hmmm.

  3. #2078
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    If you look at France, Italy or Spain, all the young, hot Enduro oriented riders are on 180 mm e bikes.

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  4. #2079
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    I fail to see what he big deal is with allowing ebikes on a lot of these trails. If it gets more people on bikes and out of cars, then I think that it is a win. As far as an increase in traffic I don't really see a ton of people (who don't already mountain bike) going out and buying eMTBs for $6K+.

    And for Porcupine rim, it is all downhill, people won't even be using the motors on the ebikes unless they climb sand flats rd (of course it might be good to make PR DH only to prevent people from trying to climb PR). You really gonna do the WE on a eMTB just to climb burro or a loop from town, then descend the rest of the trail with a heavy motor and battery?

    A lot of trails I can think of in Moab, and everywhere else for that matter, involve climbing a non-singletrack road then descending a single track. On the descent, an ebike is just a heavy bike.

  5. #2080
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    You say "heavy bike" disparagingly. My decoy gives nothing away on the down. Absolutely nothing. Actually adds to the ride. Stable planted AND playful

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  6. #2081
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    If you look at France, Italy or Spain, all the young, hot Enduro oriented riders are on 180 mm e bikes.

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    Woah buddy. Simmer down.

    This Ebike fapping thread has taken a spicy turn.


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  7. #2082
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    You say "heavy bike" disparagingly. My decoy gives nothing away on the down. Absolutely nothing. Actually adds to the ride. Stable planted AND playful

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app
    By heavy, I definitely mean heavier than it would be without the battery and motor, kinda hard to dispute that.

  8. #2083
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    Quote Originally Posted by ULLRismyco-pilot View Post
    By heavy, I definitely mean heavier than it would be without the battery and motor, kinda hard to dispute that.
    Like a lot of early emtb's I've been MTN biking for years. Decade's actually. I'm hopeful that most fit that pattern and understand how our sport has grown - evolved, and the difficulties getting here.

    People that trash these bikes make a great case against biking in the forest altogether. Their arguments are almost the same as those I heard 30 years ago.

    As for the additional 20 to 25 lbs of weight. It's not giant difference and many of us run bigger tires on the ebike vs our analog bikes. That should offset some of the concern. I do get the concerns about people going out and running 3 laps on the same trail vs 1 if not for the assist. I think that should be a part of the discussion - education, especially in areas highly susceptible to erosion.

  9. #2084
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    You say "heavy bike" disparagingly. My decoy gives nothing away on the down. Absolutely nothing. Actually adds to the ride. Stable planted AND playful
    It's true that for years downhillers have been consistently moving towards heavier and heavier bikes. I mean in 2001 they were around 50lbs. What is it now......avg weight of about 120lbs? Gotta be.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  10. #2085
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    If you look at France, Italy or Spain, all the young, hot Enduro oriented riders are on 180 mm e bikes.

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    And?
    Mister Man! Mister Man! Mister Man. They left this card.

  11. #2086
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Why isn't a class 1 e bike a mountsin bike?

    Instead of second guessing, look at Europe, where virtually no serious mountain biker will buy a non electric mountain bike today. And all class 1 are considered to be the same as Mountan bikes

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    I was just in Europe riding regular bikes. This isn't even remotely true. All of the guys we were riding with talked a fair amount of shit about ebikes, and while ebikes were all over the place, I saw very few "serious" riders on them.

    And an ebike isn't a mountain bike, because the term "mountain bike" has an accepted definition, and that definition doesn't include a motor.

  12. #2087
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    I was just in Europe riding regular bikes. This isn't even remotely true. All of the guys we were riding with talked a fair amount of shit about ebikes, and while ebikes were all over the place, I saw very few "serious" riders on them.

    And an ebike isn't a mountain bike, because the term "mountain bike" has an accepted definition, and that definition doesn't include a motor.
    When I started mountain biking, the definition of a mountain bike didn't include front or rear suspension, or hydrolic brakes. Because they weren't invented yet. eMTBs are obviously bikes.

    People talked shit about automobiles, computers, etc, etc and even mtnbikes until they caught on.
    If it's not hurting you, why are bikers trash talking other bikers? Seems hypocritical

  13. #2088
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwantmy2dollars View Post
    When I started mountain biking, the definition of a mountain bike didn't include front or rear suspension, or hydrolic brakes. Because they weren't invented yet. eMTBs are obviously bikes.

    People talked shit about automobiles, computers, etc, etc and even mtnbikes until they caught on.
    If it's not hurting you, why are bikers trash talking other bikers? Seems hypocritical
    If you can't see the difference between adding hydraulic disc brakes to a bike and adding a motor to a bike, then you're just being willfully obtuse.

    I don't have anything against ebikes. I spent more time riding an ebike than a regular bike last week. But while ebikes are similar to mountain bikes, they're clearly different. I have no idea why so many ebikers see that as a problem; what's with the obsession to define ebikes as being mountain bikes? Why can't they just be their own thing?

  14. #2089
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    Because there will never be trails built specifically for them so unless they're considered mt bikes we wont be able to ride them anywhere other than on the streets.

  15. #2090
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    Posted from another forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick, post: 4364145, member: 574
    Also is etiquette to still yield to a climber even if they have a fucking motor?

    I don't think so. Icould see THAT being the source of a conflict.
    StokePimpin' ain't easy

  16. #2091
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    Well I broke down and added an E-bike to the tool box, being retired and getting older it's hard to continue riding every day. It's been great for recovery days, Shuttle car retrievals, and getting deep out there to work on trails. I've actually lost 5 pounds cause I'm simply riding more, often two rides a day one on the e-bike and another on the regular bike. The amount of trail I'm able to build has tripled. Super stoked for bike to ski access next spring, I do a few of these each year on the regular bike but I see it that jumping dramatically next year.

    One thing that surprised me was I started setting PR's on many downhills, I attribute it to being fresher at the top of the hill and the added weight on the way down.

    Lower back issues and knee pain that have plague me have dramatically been reduced.

    Everyone who gets on it just starts laughing as soon as they start pedaling, makes uphills fun!

    I pull over and give everyone the right away when I go uphill as there is no loss of momentum.

    Love em or hate em, there here to stay and I have to say I feel like it's the BEST money I've ever spent on a toy in my life, game changer...

  17. #2092
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    It's true that for years downhillers have been consistently moving towards heavier and heavier bikes. I mean in 2001 they were around 50lbs. What is it now......avg weight of about 120lbs? Gotta be.
    I would not of believed it a few months ago. Im not saying my 48lb decoy is the perfect weight but i can now say with absolute certainty that modern day geo, suspension tech and kinematics, tire tech and both diameter and width size together with that tech, and brakes has my 48lb tank as capable on steeps as an enduro bike with the same travel . I notice a touch more muscle needed to move it around but i notice it being a fair bit more stable and a lot less deflection in the loose and roots and rocks. Jump trails , the thing flys farther , hugs berms and off camber chicanes like nothing ive been on. Thats been my whole goal to see the difference the last few rides. I dont think my times would be a bunch faster but it definitely feels less sketchy. A good barometer is riding with familar riders on there same regular mtb's. My last enduro bike was around 35lbs and this eeb is 48lbs. Maybe the ultimate weight for downs is somewhere between that, and where i cant say for certain, but i can say with 100% certainty that this eeb and its weight feel much better. Im not making any claims of great prowess on the bike but i can tell subtle differences between my bikes. Ive even got some fairly substantiap suspension mods planned and some more subtle wheel tweaks planned yet. I had soo fkn fun yesterday with this bike amongst a big posse, despite working too much this year and riding much less than normal, on this eeb. I was really surprised how playful and uncumbersome its feeling(apples to apples, no implied skill)

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  18. #2093
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Well I broke down and added an E-bike to the tool box, being retired and getting older it's hard to continue riding every day. It's been great for recovery days, Shuttle car retrievals, and getting deep out there to work on trails. I've actually lost 5 pounds cause I'm simply riding more, often two rides a day one on the e-bike and another on the regular bike. The amount of trail I'm able to build has tripled. Super stoked for bike to ski access next spring, I do a few of these each year on the regular bike but I see it that jumping dramatically next year.

    One thing that surprised me was I started setting PR's on many downhills, I attribute it to being fresher at the top of the hill and the added weight on the way down.

    Lower back issues and knee pain that have plague me have dramatically been reduced.

    Everyone who gets on it just starts laughing as soon as they start pedaling, makes uphills fun!

    I pull over and give everyone the right away when I go uphill as there is no loss of momentum.

    Love em or hate em, there here to stay and I have to say I feel like it's the BEST money I've ever spent on a toy in my life, game changer...
    Fuck dood, like youre reading my mind, all those things, spring skiing and pulling overand letting everyone going down pass usually but im doing it easier and more seemless because of it. Just want to ride it every day. Feel back to normal. I hope to be back to being constantly overtrained everyday cause bikes is so fkn fun

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  19. #2094
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    etiquette
    I stop on the ups without questioning it now whereas I always had a hard time with that before even though I've always realized that the guy going down may well be going too fast to stop quickly and safely. I also don't want anyone getting pissed when they hear the motor buzzing as I go by so if it's not steep I'll turn it off as I go past people.

    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Well I broke down and added an E-bike to the tool box, being retired and getting older it's hard to continue riding every day. It's been great for recovery days, Shuttle car retrievals, and getting deep out there to work on trails. I've actually lost 5 pounds cause I'm simply riding more, often two rides a day one on the e-bike and another on the regular bike. The amount of trail I'm able to build has tripled. Super stoked for bike to ski access next spring, I do a few of these each year on the regular bike but I see it that jumping dramatically next year.

    One thing that surprised me was I started setting PR's on many downhills, I attribute it to being fresher at the top of the hill and the added weight on the way down.

    Lower back issues and knee pain that have plagued me have dramatically been reduced.

    Everyone who gets on it just starts laughing as soon as they start pedaling, makes uphills fun!

    I pull over and give everyone the right away when I go uphill as there is no loss of momentum.

    Love em or hate em, there here to stay and I have to say I feel like it's the BEST money I've ever spent on a toy in my life, game changer...
    Used as a tool like that they make great sense right?
    I'm on a hardtail so I'm not any faster on the downs than I used to be but confidence is pretty high due to the stability. I've never been much of a downhiller anyway.
    Yeah many body parts are happier due to lower strain, I like that
    Did you ever think you'd be giggling while climbing? I sure didn't.
    There are some spots where getting started again is a hassle but not so much so that I won't stop when I hear someone coming down.
    AGREED!

  20. #2095
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    Let 5 or 6 friends try it on the singletrack climb to 5620 trail. That touch of added speed climbing in a nice comfy spin adds a bunch of fun on the climb. They were all not even considering an eeb before trying it(they didnt know i had one). A few hundred feet of climbing on a nice singletrack(not too tech but roots and rocks and bumpy) and they were all grinning from ear to ear and totally want one. Is was like lights and bells going off. I couldnt bring myself to switch on the downs though

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  21. #2096
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    Mar 2008
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    You guys still messin' round with them newfangled e-lectric contraptions...?

    Y'all must have some long extension cords!Click image for larger version. 

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  22. #2097
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Well I broke down and added an E-bike to the tool box, being retired and getting older it's hard to continue riding every day. It's been great for recovery days, Shuttle car retrievals, and getting deep out there to work on trails. I've actually lost 5 pounds cause I'm simply riding more, often two rides a day one on the e-bike and another on the regular bike. The amount of trail I'm able to build has tripled. Super stoked for bike to ski access next spring, I do a few of these each year on the regular bike but I see it that jumping dramatically next year.

    One thing that surprised me was I started setting PR's on many downhills, I attribute it to being fresher at the top of the hill and the added weight on the way down.

    Lower back issues and knee pain that have plague me have dramatically been reduced.

    Everyone who gets on it just starts laughing as soon as they start pedaling, makes uphills fun!

    I pull over and give everyone the right away when I go uphill as there is no loss of momentum.

    Love em or hate em, there here to stay and I have to say I feel like it's the BEST money I've ever spent on a toy in my life, game changer...
    For sure this.

    In a way it reminds me of when I discovered Fat bikes 10 years ago. Told everyone that would listen about them and it was the same, outright ambivalence to open hostility.
    watch out for snakes

  23. #2098
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    Yup very similar. I still have friends that won't accept the fatbike as a good thing but that's ok because they won't even ride with me anymore because of the e-bike. Whatever...

  24. #2099
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    Theyre just scared to try it. I havent ridden a fat bike or even ridden with somebody with one. Dude yesterday in the group at the park was shredding with one. I didnt think that was possible. Team t shirt, lycras and a wal mart helmet, zero fucks were given. I was cracking up wayching him giver amongst the baggie short enduro super bikes

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  25. #2100
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    Aug 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Because there will never be trails built specifically for them so unless they're considered mt bikes we wont be able to ride them anywhere other than on the streets.
    That and because 100 percent of the parts from a modern mountain bike, without exception, are used to make an emtb! I guess obtuse is in the eye of the beholder - or something like that

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