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  1. #3601
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    Anyone else besides Grinch with an ebike recommendation?

    (Grinch - Youíve clearly stated your opinions and experience. Want someone elseís POV)

  2. #3602
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    No problem. Dont expect my opinions gain any traction anyway. Theyve not accepted any "facts" thus far

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  3. #3603
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    Poor grinch, people donít agree with your opinions.

    I went and read the first post in this thread again. It seemed to me that it was about an open discussion of all aspects of the issue. Positives and negatives. It didnít really seem that it was supposed to be about grinch and his brand of ebike evangelism.

    Grinch, youíre the only one trying to put a stop to intelligent dialogue. Dismissing anyoneís legitimate concerns isnít how you win someone over in regards to your position. Itís no surprise that all you get in return is insults and mockery.


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  4. #3604
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    The thing os all your "legitimate" concerns have been dismissed over and over in the last couple years overwhelmingly throughout the world. Your "legitimate" concerns have no basis and you've not researched them or even spent time on an emtb to varify them. You could be excused a couple years ago but at this point your "legitimate" concerns are obviously based on willful ignorance. Actually willful ignorance would expire after a few months. Now your arguement is just dumb

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  5. #3605
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    Formulated opinions based on no evidence and only bias doesnt not make "intelligent" dialogue
    Youre basing your "intelligent" dialogue on your feelings. Emtb's have been on the trails throughout the world in ever increasing numbers. If youre unbiased its ez enough to form an intelligent dialogue at this point. Instead its try and find a negative to support your feelings. #murica #trumptardedbydesign #owntheleebs

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  6. #3606
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    you have twice the vert and 50% more time out on your bike
    Wow, pretty good for someone with a disability.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  7. #3607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Wow, pretty good for someone with a disability.
    Some days ya feel like a nut some days ya dont. Feeling good avoiding too many intervals or sprints or to long of intervals is the great thing about emtb's. I start pulling my self inside out on the climbs and things will go sideways at some point, literally.. i get to a point where my leg strength and fitmess gains out pace my back stability gains so i use the power mode to try and stay at an endurance pace.
    Even still i get i get pretty psyched on how things are going amd having so much fun i overstep my bodies current limits. Blew something up on the braking bumps at the park a couple weeks ago after being dehydrated , tired and doing too much. Rested then a couple casual 2hr xc rides last week and back to the park and made it half a lap. The last 3 days have taken me 5-10 minutes to crawl to the washroom with t3 having little to no effect. Was able to put socks on today and ditch the t3's and play rusdian roulette sitting on the can 5x hoping the spine doesnt give out sending me back to square one. Who knows, maybe all biking is done and you can continue putting your head in the samd instead of listening to my "facts"
    Ftr, im not attributing any sarcasm to your comment and just answering it, too bad that has to be said


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  8. #3608
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    Electric Bike Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    The thing os all your "legitimate" concerns have been dismissed over and over in the last couple years overwhelmingly throughout the world. Your "legitimate" concerns have no basis and you've not researched them or even spent time on an emtb to varify them. You could be excused a couple years ago but at this point your "legitimate" concerns are obviously based on willful ignorance. Actually willful ignorance would expire after a few months. Now your arguement is just dumb

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    So the US Forest Service seems to have the same concerns as a lot of posters in this thread and the issue isnít settled. Even the BLM and Parks arenít settled on the issue. Again, as the law currently stands, the majority of non motorized trails are not open to class 1 ebikes. The issue isnít settled because itís largely an issue that is driven by emotions and opinions, on both sides and in the middle.

    We have a paved multi use non motorized trail here that has a speed limit of 15 mph. It would seem that would preclude even class 1 e bikes from using the trail. The majority of e bike users on the trail are on class 2 and 3 bikes and they travel on this trail well over the 15 mph limit and often 20-25 mph. Is this okay? Translate this to people using modded class 1, class 2 and 3 bikes on non motorized multi use FS trails open to equestrians, pedestrian and traditional mtbs. Can you possibly see that there might be user conflicts with this new group of users?

    I said earlier in this thread that I donít have a problem with e bikes, Iíve been on both road and mountain e bikes and I understand the appeal even though theyíre not what Iím after when I go mtbing. What I do have issue with is e bikers using trails that are still closed to them. Just because someone has a strongly held opinion that they can do what they want to do, doesnít make them right. Iím trying to be objective here, could you possibly see your way to doing the same?


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  9. #3609
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    So the US Forest Service seems to have the same concerns as a lot of posters in this thread and the issue isnít settled. Even the BLM and Parks arenít settled on the issue. Again, as the law currently stands, the majority of non motorized trails are not open to class 1 ebikes. The issue isnít settled because itís largely an issue that is driven by emotions and opinions, on both sides and in the middle. We have a paved multi use non motorized trail here that has a speed limit of 15 mph. It would seem that would preclude even class 1 e bikes from using the trail. The majority of e bike users on the trail are on class 2 and 3 bikes and they travel on this trail well over the 15 mph limit and often 20-25 mph. Is this okay? Translate this to people using modded class 1, class 2 and 3 bikes on non motorized multi use FS trails open to equestrians, pedestrian and traditional mtbs. Can you possibly see that there might be user conflicts with this new group of users?

    I said earlier in this thread that I donít have a problem with e bikes, Iíve been on both road and mountain e bikes and I understand the appeal even though theyíre not what Iím after when I go mtbing. What I do have issue with is e bikers using trails that are still closed to them. Just because someone has a strongly held opinion that they can do what they want to do, doesnít make them right. Iím trying to be objective here, could you possibly see your way to doing the same?


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    Dood youre leaping to conclusions. Look throughout the world for a much wider swath. Again youre grabbing negatives from paved bike paths. And how do you know they arent something you'd want or enjoyed? Even after extensive reasearch i found a bunch of fun uses after i got one. Go do 7 or 8 days on one on a variety of legal trails and have an informed opinion. Ive got 100's of days on one on sometimes busy trails. Absolutely zero issues other than the rare opinioned misinformed rider. Very rare. Surprisingly rare. Bike companies have demo days where you can try them for free. Its ez to book 5 , 6 or 7 days throughout the year for free. I really wish i cold tale a few of you around my local xc trails, consequently our busiest trails, and just show you some fun routes and fun applications that everyone could enjoy and get a feel for the abilities and weight of the bikes and get accustomed to it and have some interactions with all trail users. I am 100% certain everyone i took out would love it and put their mind at ease in regards to conflict. Theyre multi use 2 way trails as well. Thats been the case throughout bc and i dont have to tell you there's plenty of riders in BC. You can always find some story where some idiot in any activity does something to ruins another persons day. I'd prefer to look at the overall picture as to how they fit in.
    Conflating narrowed paved paths with newbs on a variety of transportation methods is hardly a case study data point on the use of class1 use on trails.
    Saying people will be ripping up trails on throttle ebikes leaves out a host of facts. Trails technicality and steepmess often limit trail speed more than a throttle will not to mention the riders will have limited skill. Of course that won't cancel out every possibility but it will be a small problem that will be manageable and that has been shown, again worldwide. Dont be like the climate deniers and use one snowball in texas as proof climate change isnt happening
    Im not discussing your politics im discussing bikes and how they work on trails and how that relates to my exstensive use and active research and correspondence with a worldwide swath of emtbers. Many of whom are much more respectful , objective , considerate and mature than I , and most trg posters

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  10. #3610
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    TL;DR - I guess I need to take my Q about eBike recommendations to tech talk.

    (Looking a potential commuter bike. Or, do I just throw a Bafang on my old Titus?)

  11. #3611
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Dood youre leaping to conclusions. Look throughout the world for a much wider swath. Again youre grabbing negatives from paved bike paths. And how do you know they arent something you'd want or enjoyed? Even after extensive reasearch i found a bunch of fun uses after i got one. Go do 7 or 8 days on one on a variety of legal trails and have an informed opinion. Ive got 100's of days on one on sometimes busy trails. Absolutely zero issues other than the rare opinioned misinformed rider. Very rare. Surprisingly rare. Bike companies have demo days where you can try them for free. Its ez to book 5 , 6 or 7 days throughout the year for free. I really wish i cold tale a few of you around my local xc trails, consequently our busiest trails, and just show you some fun routes and fun applications that everyone could enjoy and get a feel for the abilities and weight of the bikes and get accustomed to it and have some interactions with all trail users. I am 100% certain everyone i took out would love it and put their mind at ease in regards to conflict. Theyre multi use 2 way trails as well. Thats been the case throughout bc and i dont have to tell you there's plenty of riders in BC. You can always find some story where some idiot in any activity does something to ruins another persons day. I'd prefer to look at the overall picture as to how they fit in.
    Conflating narrowed paved paths with newbs on a variety of transportation methods is hardly a case study data point on the use of class1 use on trails.
    Saying people will be ripping up trails on throttle ebikes leaves out a host of facts. Trails technicality and steepmess often limit trail speed more than a throttle will not to mention the riders will have limited skill. Of course that won't cancel out every possibility but it will be a small problem that will be manageable and that has been shown, again worldwide. Dont be like the climate deniers and use one snowball in texas as proof climate change isnt happening
    Im not discussing your politics im discussing bikes and how they work on trails and how that relates to my exstensive use and active research and correspondence with a worldwide swath of emtbers. Many of whom are much more respectful , objective , considerate and mature than I , and most trg posters

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    First you are hinting at my politics with your climate denier comment.

    Second, everything you posted is entirely subjective

    Third, how is your opinion more valid than what my experience is?

    I get that you like e bikes. Not everyone wants an e bike and not everyone thinks the same as you do.

    Iím talking facts, not all non motorized trails are open to e bikes where I live. E bikes use these trails even when prohibited. Those are facts and Iím not okay with it until the status legally changes. Subjectively, my experience is that there is user conflict created by the use of e bikes in my area. I donít live in your area or Europe or anyplace else. Can you possibly understand that someone elseís experience may differ from yours?


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  12. #3612
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post
    TL;DR - I guess I need to take my Q about eBike recommendations to tech talk.

    (Looking a potential commuter bike. Or, do I just throw a Bafang on my old Titus?)
    Ill be brief. No experience but this seems handy and could be cool in your vitus. They have a distributor in seattle as well

    https://www.100g.tech/QR.html

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  13. #3613
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post
    Anyone else besides Grinch with an ebike recommendation?

    (Grinch - Youíve clearly stated your opinions and experience. Want someone elseís POV)
    I don't have any brand specific recommendations, but my take is:

    1) Get the biggest battery you can. Of all the limitations with an ebike, my biggest gripes have to do with running out of juice / limited range. I run through a full battery almost every time I ride the ebike, and would happily ride further if I had a bigger battery. I have a 500 Wh battery, but I wish I had a 700.

    2) If you're planning on the ebike being your only bike (meaning it will replace your analog bike(s)), maybe consider one of the lightweight (<40 lb) options. Otherwise, get a full power ebike with a full size battery. Also consider what your riding partners will have. Similar to analog bikes, if they're all on lighter bikes (with less power and smaller batteries), you'll be waiting at the top if you have a bigger motor / battery. But if they're all on bigger, more powerful bikes, you'll get dropped.

    3) It is tempting to go with lightweight parts. Don't. Ebikes take a beating. Especially the tires, wheels, and brakes. Go with downhill level parts. Burly rims, burly tires, and big rotors. A big heavy bike means that it sticks to the ground and smashes through stuff, and it takes some doing to slow it down.

    4) The motor and battery system is unique to ebikes, but the rest of the bike is more or less a normal mountain bike. The normal geometry and fit considerations mostly apply. Pedaling efficiency doesn't really matter, because you've got a motor. Seat tube angle does matter (steeper is better) - you can pedal up some really steep stuff (because you've got a motor), but that doesn't work if you just loop out off the back. Somewhat longer chainstays are nice for the same reason. Slacker head tube angles are ok because you're generally going faster in most places (i.e. flatter terrain). But a super low bottom bracket actually kinda sucks on climbs because you only have power if you're pedaling, and ratcheting the pedals doesn't actually work very well to keep the power delivery smooth.

    5) Per grinch, this is all a lie and I have a secret agenda to do... something. Not sure what. If you take note of any of my opinions, you will almost certainly die.

  14. #3614
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    First you are hinting at my politics with your climate denier comment.

    Second, everything you posted is entirely subjective

    Third, how is your opinion more valid than what my experience is?

    I get that you like e bikes. Not everyone wants an e bike and not everyone thinks the same as you do.

    Iím talking facts, not all non motorized trails are open to e bikes where I live. E bikes use these trails even when prohibited. Those are facts and Iím not okay with it until the status legally changes. Subjectively, my experience is that there is user conflict created by the use of e bikes in my area. I donít live in your area or Europe or anyplace else. Can you possibly understand that someone elseís experience may differ from yours?


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    I would think that the mileage ive put on one woyluld give me added perspective along with my 39yrs of riding, racing, wrenching as first and foremost a bike bum. I find that a lot of peoples percieved conflict is merely the sight of an emtb on a trail.
    As for my politics reference i meant it as current US/emtb politics. Gradually emtb is taken a foothold and that will expand because they fit well within the trail systems. They fit by design. Ive also seen people change their views on them over time and within one ride. After they've enough experience on or with one , whether they have one or will have one or not, they always see the possibilities and the lack of issues. In my exoerience that has been pretty much 100% of the time. Thats friends and just random people with tons of mtb experience that were initially full anti eeb. Ive always been the go to guy for a large group oglf people that ask my opinion on anything and everything mtb tech or trails. I still get 2 or 3 random calls/messages a year from people i may not have heard from in 20 yrs that just know im immersed in all things bike, together with the regular alternating 10-15 friends that i see semi regular for a visit. After growing their family they want to get back on the bike. Most get an mtb recommendation but some are on emtb's now. Its often a lengrhy procedure and they could be messaging me questions for months. They know thats just what i do and what ive done. Some were previous top athletes but for some reason they trust my opinion. Obviously you'll never believe me so all i can say is thats unfortunate.. Best of luck with your stance


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  15. #3615
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post
    TL;DR - I guess I need to take my Q about eBike recommendations to tech talk.

    (Looking a potential commuter bike. Or, do I just throw a Bafang on my old Titus?)
    I’ve been happy with my Bafang setup. It’s held up to 2+ years of pretty heavy use and replacement parts are readily available. Its actually a little scary fast and your front tire will leave the ground with the throttle. I love riding past cars stuck in traffic and parking front row. Like toast says, its hard on the wearables but I feel less guilty taking off 50% worn tires from my real MTB and wearing down to bald on my commuter. I buy the ebay $5 brake pads and replace them a couple times a year. Same with chains and cogs, buy cheap 9spd and replace frequently. I thought about buying a real eMTB but there just aren’t enough legal trails here in Tahoe to justify it.

    Edit: if you do get a Bafang, find a better way to mount the battery than the water bottle bosses. It’ll crack your frame.

  16. #3616
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    I would think that the mileage ive put on one woyluld give me added perspective along with my 39yrs of riding, racing, wrenching as first and foremost a bike bum. I find that a lot of peoples percieved conflict is merely the sight of an emtb on a trail.
    As for my politics reference i meant it as current US/emtb politics. Gradually emtb is taken a foothold and that will expand because they fit well within the trail systems. They fit by design. Ive also seen people change their views on them over time and within one ride. After they've enough experience on or with one , whether they have one or will have one or not, they always see the possibilities and the lack of issues. In my exoerience that has been pretty much 100% of the time. Thats friends and just random people with tons of mtb experience that were initially full anti eeb. Ive always been the go to guy for a large group oglf people that ask my opinion on anything and everything mtb tech or trails. I still get 2 or 3 random calls/messages a year from people i may not have heard from in 20 yrs that just know im immersed in all things bike, together with the regular alternating 10-15 friends that i see semi regular for a visit. After growing their family they want to get back on the bike. Most get an mtb recommendation but some are on emtb's now. Its often a lengrhy procedure and they could be messaging me questions for months. They know thats just what i do and what ive done. Some were previous top athletes but for some reason they trust my opinion. Obviously you'll never believe me so all i can say is thats unfortunate.. Best of luck with your stance


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    Thanks for your perspective, Iíve been a avid cyclist for around 40 years now and Iím not ready to switch to an e bike. Iím getting older and slower and thatís okay. I think thereís a lot of difference in attitude and expectations down here when it comes to wild lands and that doesnít invalidate your experience just like the attitude and expectations up there doesnít invalidate mine.


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  17. #3617
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    Thanks for your perspective, Iíve been a avid cyclist for around 40 years now and Iím not ready to switch to an e bike. Iím getting older and slower and thatís okay. I think thereís a lot of difference in attitude and expectations down here when it comes to wild lands and that doesnít invalidate your experience just like the attitude and expectations up there doesnít invalidate mine.


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    No problem. Really wish you'd try one atleast a few rides. Im always interested to see how it goes after that.
    I have found everyone ends up riding more and really doesnt change their style rather than just adding different types of riding. For me thats a bunch of added commuting rather than using my truck and more exploring dead ends and uphill less used on sections that people avoid. Not super steep but steeper than most mtbers would try regularly. Its just great mileage early season because its tech with little consequence. You get in trouble you just put a foot down. Makes it ez to get back feeling comfy on your bike in the spring before you risk the biscuit on a tech downhill section. I cant be crashing at my age and state so that gets my early season mileage and bike handling safely. Sort of how Danny Macaskill describes in that vid a couple pages back. Obviiusly at a different level but i still push my riding up and down because thats just what ive done, im just trying to miderate it with a focus on fun rather than suffering. The modes help that. I may not quite have the explosive speed ive had but my fitness is improved. Endurance pace focus has really improved the enjoyment of my rides. Sonetimes i catch my self pushing but thats just because my body/mind wants to not as much because the climbing steepness is dictating it. I guess in a way its like motor pacing on a road bike. At endurance pace it also helps me see oncoming riders before they see me as well
    The newbs or casual riders still do more than they wouldve otherwise

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  18. #3618
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    Thanks for replies so far. Helpful considerations. Looking at a commuter ride. Have an analog roadie and analog AM MTB.

  19. #3619
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    Thanks for your perspective, Iíve been a avid cyclist for around 40 years now and Iím not ready to switch to an e bike. Iím getting older and slower and thatís okay. I think thereís a lot of difference in attitude and expectations down here when it comes to wild lands and that doesnít invalidate your experience just like the attitude and expectations up there doesnít invalidate mine.


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    It's amazing how one reads what they want to hear. I read your post and swore it said "getting ready to switch to an E bike" I only noticed my mistake while posting this reply.

    Soo long story long, we should ride, while I still don't have an electric mountain bike.
    Common sense. So rare today in America it's almost like having a superpower.

  20. #3620
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveski View Post
    It's amazing how one reads what they want to hear. I read your post and swore it said "getting ready to switch to an E bike" I only noticed my mistake while posting this reply.

    Soo long story long, we should ride, while I still don't have an electric mountain bike.
    Sure, you might have to wait for me at times


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  21. #3621
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    Fuck this looks good. Proper eeb terrain. 3000m on one 504w battery on this grinding terrain in these conditions is impressive. I'd want some talllll gears



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  22. #3622
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    Pilgrim is a bad man



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  23. #3623
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post
    Anyone else besides Grinch with an ebike recommendation?

    (Grinch - You’ve clearly stated your opinions and experience. Want someone else’s POV)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    You are what you eat.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    There's no such thing as bad snow, just shitty skiers.

  24. #3624
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    Orbea Rise M10 xl. Golly gee wizz. Anybody wanna buy near new Orbea Occam xl
    You are what you eat.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    There's no such thing as bad snow, just shitty skiers.

  25. #3625
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    Rise is pretty sweet for sure. Wild fs too. Awesome 2 eeb quiver. Looks like you sold one of the wild fs' you had left

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