Electric Bike Thread

[grinch]

Yup, i could see a tech company poaching a majority of their business. Shifting included. 4th shitmano derailleur this year died today. The long cages suck and the wide range and small gear changes w 12 or 11 speed make them sooo finicky. Any slop destroys them. Ive been digging the 8spd larely on the eeb so thats solved a lit of issues, but i miss the 50 or 51t on the cassette. Lately its been the b tension screw though. I need to use a fair bit of b tension screw with the wide range cassette and the small guage b tension screw just punches through the spacer on the derailleur thst seats against the derailleur hanger. Jump trails eventually make it punch right through the aluminium. Shit design. B tension screw should be a larger diameter and have a wide flat end on it pushing against the spacer that seats between the der hanger and b tension screw. Absolute junk. Its like the quality has gotten worse the last few years. Reminds me of the early 80s junk. So fragile

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[Andeh]

As I start to window shop for ebikes, am I too far off base in assuming that just about any ebike will likely need motor warranty work? So basically, all other things being equal, you gotta get one with a local dealer to handle the warranty stuff, unless you're ok with long distance support (seems crazy to me).

My buddy just had to take his Levo in because the motor gets really loud about 20 min into every ride. He said when he looked online, it's a common issue, and people just rotate through warranty motors until they get one that doesn't do it.

I was interested in the upcoming Transition Relay, but the nearest Transition dealer is like 45 min away. And I've seen some reports of people with the Pivot that uses the same Fazua motor having lots of issues.

[grinch]

The new fazua motor has been improved but its still a first year product. Id wait on that. I hear a few issues with the new trek sl bike with the new tq motor as well. The tq and fazua and ep8rs are decently powered but a fair bit of the lighter weight is from a smaller battery so thats something to consider as well. The levo/kenevo sl with the mahle motor is just underpowered. Id guesss theyll be redesigning that relatively soon. Far better options in that category. Full fat levo/kenevo with the brose motor has seen a lot of motor warrantees. Theyre good about it and they evenvextended their warrantee to 4 yrs, for a reason though. I heard over 100% customer warrantee rate because some get multiple warrantee motors. Some get lucky and their motor lasts longer and in those cases theyre a really nice bike.
In most cases they can handle warrantees at any lbs. The lbs will be dealing with the motor company in most cases. Spesh/brose would be the exception. Spesh will look after you. Transition being transition you'd probably get help if hou needed something for a shimano motor if shimano were slow for some reason but the states "probably" has more stock. Good options at a decent price are the giants with the yamaha and the 180mm scott bike with the bosch is a sweet bike at a great deal. Cannondale has good bosch bikes(not sure how their support is). New haibikes are a steal too. Great price, look and bosch(again not sure on their support stateside). For light weights the new bulls sl bike might be worth a look. Not up on the deets but i remember being impressed. I think i prefer the full fat bikes(85nm with 750w battery). Can pack more travel, go farther and itll still be tge best xc bike you ever had if that happens to be the use for thst day. Shuttle it, ride the lift, spins a bunch of laps, explore or go tech climbing. The 160-180 full fat does it all

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[XXX-er]

yeah knowing what I know now I would suggest going with a local dealer, my dealer is 4 hrs away so that has been a pain but I wroked it out and I never actulay had to take the bike in

SO I don't think the end loser will necessarily need warranty work, I had problems but for the most part i kept riding in spite of Shimano

I think you wana ask yerself are you buying a motor or the bike it is bolted to ?

I been really happy & impressed with the Santa Cruz product, the Shimano part less so but its good now

as for what to buy IME go big or go home, you got the motor to deal with extra weight so go full fat 170mm front/rear travel with a 85nm motor and at least 630W of battery

Braaap

[grinch]

I agree. My warranteed e8000 has just under 5000km on it now and its running fine, touch wood, after the initial motor and bad experience. Its seen a few months in spring and fall in the snow but mostly dry conditions. Only 70nm and a 540w battery and its still super fun. If i liked a bike and it had an ep8 im sure id be more than pleased with the 85nm and the bigger battery. So many good options out there now. Some are quite reasonably priced in comparison to some acoustic mtb's

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[Gunder]

My Shimano systems have been pretty damn reliable so far. On my old bike the charge port on the battery went out twice and Shimano had me replacement batteries in 3 days each time. On my new bike, I had the charge port go out once (my fault, I cramed the charger in while it still had dirt and shit in there), Transition juste handed me a replacement part and I was back in full operation in 5 min. The Fazua is showing promise (Ive seen a few proto's on a hand full of rides), but unless they change the plug system, they are going to face the same issues the Specialized ones did with that shitty Rosenberger plug.

There is also a Crestline E-bike prototype around town. That looks to be the best sorted E-bike I've seen. Good plug system, Chargeport is on Top tube by headset, display is integrated into top tube. Motor controls are Bluetooth (no wires). Has a Bosch racing motor (lighter weight).

[Andeh]

Yeah, I'm leaning hard towards a full power/battery model. One of my friends who was doing coaching and repairs just opened his own shop, and is a Yeti dealer, and I know he'll look after me if any issues come up. I know, Yeti... but the price is in line with other bikes I'm considering. I don't love the sound of the rattl-y EP8 but the rest of the bike spec/geo looks really good. Of all the guys I ride with in any frequency who own ebikes, only 1 has an SL ebike. He's trying to convince me to go that route of course. But I think having more battery / power makes more sense for what I want it for: banging out 4,500 ft in 1.5 hours in full turbo (i.e. more rides per week between work and family commitments), doing more trail work (5-10 mins from my door to basically any spot on our local trails vs. a half hour of pedaling or hiking), or doing huge backcountry rides a few times a year (Sierras, Ashland, Nisene).

[rod9301]

As I start to window shop for ebikes, am I too far off base in assuming that just about any ebike will likely need motor warranty work? So basically, all other things being equal, you gotta get one with a local dealer to handle the warranty stuff, unless you're ok with long distance support (seems crazy to me).

My buddy just had to take his Levo in because the motor gets really loud about 20 min into every ride. He said when he looked online, it's a common issue, and people just rotate through warranty motors until they get one that doesn't do it.

I was interested in the upcoming Transition Relay, but the nearest Transition dealer is like 45 min away. And I've seen some reports of people with the Pivot that uses the same Fazua motor having lots of issues.

All need warranty with except for Bosch

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[XXX-er]

I fixed a # of DOA computers back in the day, it was a reputable brand the end loser didnt do anything wrong the computer was just dead right of the box

and we are riding computers

[Andeh]

All need warranty with except for Bosch

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Can you elaborate? Is Bosch's warranty directly to them? Or you're saying Bosch motors don't have problems (I find that hard to believe)?

[rod9301]

Yes, I'll saying that Bosch motors are very reliable

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[XXX-er]

Not like this is your thread in the 1st place.

Love ya

sez the guy who gives knowingly gives misinformation to newbies asking questions about E bikes and is pretty much only qualifyed to post in the I hate E bikes thread, the whole internet is open to anybody even people who try to fuck over an innocent newbie asking a question

[Gunder]

My new quiver is going to be a full power ebike and big battery plus a SL ebike. The analog is dead and best to sell before they turn into the modern day 26er. @xxx Ebikes are not rocket science and are dead fucking simple once you take one apart.

[XXX-er]

well sure it doesnt look all that hard and i will probably take one apart at some point,

its not the complexity its the $$$$ so until the motor is off warranty

I will let the dealer do his job cuz of $$$$

[Bunion 2020]

sez the guy who gives knowingly gives misinformation to newbies asking questions about E bikes and is pretty much only qualifyed to post in the I hate E bikes thread, the whole internet is open to anybody even people who try to fuck over an innocent newbie asking a question

Is engrish not your 1st language?

[XXX-er]

love ya

[grinch]

Trololol

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[Bunion 2020]

love ya

Now you are getting into the spirit.

ETA https://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...fce286a1.html:

The first time I saw an electric bike — better known as an ebike — I was struggling up a hill. Suddenly, a silver-haired man came whizzing by in regular city clothes. I felt a wave of envy as he left me in the dust.

That was probably five years ago, and since then ebike use has exploded. In 2020, ebike sales in the United States for just the month of June totaled roughly $90 million, up 190 percent from the previous June.

It’s hard to remember, but regular mountain bikes didn’t become commercially available until the 1980s, and when the early adopters hit trails previously used only by hikers and horseback riders, conflicts happened fast.

People claimed the bikes increased erosion. They worried about collisions and scaring horses. They theorized that mountain bikes would frighten wildlife. Today, those same arguments are being used against electric mountain bikes.

Once again, the controversy seems to stem from the fear of change, perhaps some arrogance and maybe a little jealousy. After all, since I suffered to get to the top of the climb on my own power, shouldn’t you?

In 2017, the International Mountain Bike Association, which had said that ebikes should be considered motorized vehicles, softened its stance. Instead, it proposed that local land managers and user groups should determine — on a case-by-case basis — whether to allow ebikes on naturally surfaced trails. Many members canceled their memberships. Some comments were harsh.

One wrote, “If you’re too old to still ride the trails you love, do as many beforehand, reminisce about the good old days and encourage the young. Don’t throw them and our public land under the bus.” That kind of attitude does not bode well for land managers to find an easy compromise.

So, what are the impacts of electric mountain bikes. Do they harm trails, or cause more accidents?

In 2015, the International Mountain Bike Association studied the environmental impacts of mountain bikes, both electric and self-propelled, and found no appreciable differences between the two in terms of soil displacement on trails. Overall, bike impacts were similar to the impacts of hikers.

Horses, motorcycles and off-road vehicles do much more damage to trails.

As for problems caused by speed, traffic studies show that accidents and their severity escalate as differences in speed increase. But do electrified bikes go that much faster than traditional bikes?

To find out, Tahoe National Forest measured the top speeds reached by intermediate and advanced riders using both kinds of bikes. Differences on the downhills were small. On uphills, traditional bikers averaged 5-8 mph, while electric mountain bikes traveled 8-13 mph. This was a difference, but not enough of a difference to cause more accidents, especially if bikers alert others to their presence and ride in control.

Rachel Fussell, program manager of the nonprofit PeopleForBikes, says that more than a battery boost, speed on trails reflects rider skill as well as trail design. She believes that all users observing proper trail etiquette would avert most potential conflicts.

Celeste Young has been a biker all her life and now coaches mountain biking. Her fleet of bicycles has recently grown to include an electric mountain bike.

“The most negative thing I’ve heard is, ‘Oh, you’re cheating,’” she says. “But it’s just another way to be out there. You get an extra boost going up these really hard trails, so it makes a challenging trail fun, rather than demoralizing.”

It’s a puzzling notion that someone accused her of cheating. It would be one thing if you secretly put a motor in your bike during a race, but when it’s an amateur rider going out for fun and exercise, how is having an electronic boost cheating?

The whole thing reminds me — a skier — of the controversy that erupted after snowboards appeared at ski resorts. They were new and fast, and their rhythm on the slope was different than the rhythm of people on skis.

We didn’t like them, and I doubt they liked us. But we’ve worked it out. Now, public land managers face the knotty problem of how much access to allow ebikes, and where, or whether to segregate them to their own trails. Welcome to the crowded West.

Molly Absolon is a contributor to Writers on the Range, writersontherange.org, an independent nonprofit dedicated to spurring discussion about Western issues. She lives in Victor, Idaho, and has worked as a wilderness educator, waiter, farmer and freelance journalist to support her outdoor recreation habit.

[Redsmurfer]

https://www.openspace.org/sites/defa...dy_R-22-78.pdf

check out page 7 and 8 noise study

too much increased wildlife disturbance vs increased trail use.

anyways no ebikes on mid penn land for the foreseeable future

[jacob_dbu]

My new quiver is going to be a full power ebike and big battery plus a SL ebike. The analog is dead and best to sell before they turn into the modern day 26er. @xxx Ebikes are not rocket science and are dead fucking simple once you take one apart.

In the PNW how many years do you think before that will happen? I think the eMTB is at the middle-end of the early adopter phase in WA. I think in ~3 years it will be more eMTB then regular bikes on the trail. The biggest adoption is having friends who also have them, also reliability of the motors / motor controllers, and options (although that is changing extremely rapidly).

[muted reborn]

When forests are closed to all motorized vehicles due to high fire danger, does anyone think there will be soon an exclusion for ebikes?

[toast2266]

In the PNW how many years do you think before that will happen? I think the eMTB is at the middle-end of the early adopter phase in WA. I think in ~3 years it will be more eMTB then regular bikes on the trail. The biggest adoption is having friends who also have them, also reliability of the motors / motor controllers, and options (although that is changing extremely rapidly).

I'm skeptical a full ebike takeover will ever happen. Every single person I know who owns an ebike still rides their analog bike (much) more often.

Obviously that's not the case for all ebike owners, but there's still a massive contingent of riders that aren't interested in the experience that ebikes offer.

[jacob_dbu]

I'm skeptical a full ebike takeover will ever happen. Every single person I know who owns an ebike still rides their analog bike (much) more often.

Obviously that's not the case for all ebike owners, but there's still a massive contingent of riders that aren't interested in the experience that ebikes offer.

I feel more convinced a near full ebike takeover will happen. The climbing trails are bueno here and it's a lot of vert you can access. I think the midweight eMTBs will be huge hits (think 40lbs). Of course there will be people who don't like / want them, but I think an ample comparison are people who ski tour inbounds when the lift is spinning...sure there's some people but the vast majority would just take the lift.

[toast2266]

Of course there will be people who don't like / want them, but I think an ample comparison are people who ski tour inbounds when the lift is spinning...sure there's some people but the vast majority would just take the lift.

I don't think that's a very good comparison because ski gear doesn't go uphill. If you want to go uphill, you have to buy a new set of gear. Bikes, on the other hand, go uphill just fine.

That aside, the market for backcountry ski gear has exploded over the last 5 years. Clearly there is a large and growing market for non lift assisted skiing. So skiing is kind of going in the exact opposite direction of ebikes.

[Andeh]

I don't think that's a very good comparison because ski gear doesn't go uphill. If you want to go uphill, you have to buy a new set of gear. Bikes, on the other hand, go uphill just fine.

That aside, the market for backcountry ski gear has exploded over the last 5 years. Clearly there is a large and growing market for non lift assisted skiing. So skiing is kind of going in the exact opposite direction of ebikes.

Agreed. In a perfect world, I'd love to be able to ride the lift for powder laps, but living 5 hours away from Tahoe means that the chances of getting more than 1 powder lap are about the same as a snowflake in a wildfire.

I feel like in the Bay, at most of the popular riding spots, it already feels like it's 50/50 ebikes/meat bikes. Lots of money here, lots of fat people, and the climbs tend to be steep. The one thing that pisses me off about the ebike users here is that a certain "cultural group" of them likes to roll around in groups of 10+ riders with music blasting from Bluetooth speakers.