Electric Bike Thread

[Flexon Phil]

I don’t get it. Why not just buy a dirt bike? You can go twice as fast on the up with even less effort.

Thats right, you don't get it, it's NOT like a Dirt bike

Plus, I hear they are pretty easy to modify...

Wow, I bet you read that in the internet....or saw a video..on the internet.

Then they can ride on trails motors are allowed on, roads or advacate for their own trails.

I'm fat and middle aged and I haul myself to the top to ride down. If I can, everyone can.

Our trails cant handle more laps. The secret, not legal trails are still pretty nice. The ones on the map are all blown out. More laps with heavier bikes is going to blow them out faster, make more and bigger brake bumps...

So, if a rider that is a tail builder has both an acoustic bike and an E-bike...he can't ride thise trails? As far as the weight...exactly what weight is the break point..and you have to do it rider AND bike..is it 175..200lb?

Usually it's not so much assholeness as its ignorance.

No knowing the unwritten rules, not reading the written rules, not caring enough to figure it out...

Like posting on the internet and staying the same thing over like ...if I have to do it..everyone has to.." What makes you think the riders of these have any less knowledge of the trail than you?

If you are going to post a view...do it from a basis of fact and not just "I heard" or "They might..."

[buttahflake]

2) every single person that I spoke to that tried one RAVED about them...like they were the greatest thing since the round wheel...ok, maybe the dropper post...but: every person smiled and really enjoyed their time on them.

Sounds like I need one of these bad boys, I like having fun.

Yeah, same here. When they get the MTB’s dialed in with long travel and semi-light weight. I’m in. Think how fun it would be on the worst stretches of class 4/snowmachine trails. Nobody rides those things in summer. Way too gnarly, endless steeps on technical lines. Go for six hour backwoods tours, fuck yes. I’m so pro-ebike. I’ll be riding when I’m 80+

Edit:throttle is not what is is, it’s pedal assist. And the first time you try it, you will laugh out loud. It makes perfect sense, what city will be the first to jump all in? And build an infrastructure dedicated to a new way of living.

Future so bright

[Flexon Phil]

Fuck, can we stop arguing over E-bikes and let's actually talk about who is making some good ones? You don't approve of people riding em on trails, fine, STFU you made your point. I feel like some parts of the country will have better access for these than others.

Most of the ones that come up on a google search are more geared toward commuting/grocery getters. What are some of the faster/longer range/ better built brands out there for actual trail riding?

I spent some time on the Cannondale Moterra and while the Bosch system is good, the bike is pretty heavy and not all of that weight is masked, the Bosch can only do so much. With said, it is a dream going down hill, it is very planted on the trail and in the corners. Nothing seems to bother the 27.5+ tires on the climb and I do not uderstand the concern about erosion, I did not spit up one rock or displaced any more dirt than I did on the other bikes I was testing. The Pivot Shuttle with it's carbon fiber frame and low 40lb weight add to it's nimbleness The Di2 Shifting is the bomb but all of this comes at a premium $10K price point. I think they should come out with a couple of lower models and offer a collection, I think they would do great. The upcoming LaPeirre E-Zesty looks like a fantastic option with it's 17.5Kg weight (about 38lb) which will make it very well the lightest Full Suspension option. The E-Zesty, gives up some of it's top end boost and range for the light weight battery...IMHO a fair trade off and something that a few riders would be willing to balance...shedding a few lb for a bit less range because twith that less weight, the range will come because you won't be using that much assist...makes sense to me.

[babybear]

I've got an e-commuter bike and IT IS THE SHIT.
Raleigh Supre and it was also relatively affordable to boot at $1500 https://www.raleighusa.com/superbe-i...ond-frame-3271
I rarely ever drive my car in the summer and when I run home for lunch etc, I don't have to worry about being all sweaty and gross when I get back to the office, I can wear nice clothes out AND ride to dinner/ out with friends

But the E-MTB's are a different beast and they are not allowed on the non-motorized trails around here. Luckily for the e-bikers around here we have tons of dirt biking/ motorized access trails.
Been hearing about some folks with the Specialized e-bikes doing some long bike packing trips in the Big Holes, which makes me somewhat jealous and seems like the perfect use of that sort of tool

I think I saw someone prior ask/ mention the categories but for ebikes and here's what they are. for reference my bike as well as most you see around are Class 1's. The Class 2-3's are where, imo, things get more complicated
Class 1: Bikes with a top assisted speed of 20 mph that must be pedaled to operate.
Class 2: Bikes with a top assisted speed of 20 mph that can be operated without pedaling by using a handlebar-mounted throttle.
Class 3: Bikes with a top assisted speed of 28 mph that must be pedaled to operate.

[ill-advised strategy]

It's not about who gets to have fun and who doesnt.

Things with motors are motorized and shouldn't be on non motorized trails.

You realize the delineation was predicated on a fairly stark difference between combustion dirtbikes where you wear a ton of gear and make a ton of noise and can effortlessly blipbrap at 50mph uphill versus pedal bikes. Ebikes are something different than that.

The rules weren't made for the technology we currently have. Trying to apply rules set up to distinguish between a 1985 Stumpjumper and a 1985 Honda CR250 to a pedal enduro bike versus an enduro ebike is just fundamentalism. It's "NO MOTORS OF ANY KIND" fundamentalism....which is just as ridiculous as any other kind of fundamentalism.

[grinch]

I’m a bit surprised , not entirely surprised, to see a fair bit of open minded posts. It’s been almost a taboo topic. Be careful where you bring the subject up. It kind of reminds me of the early days when bikes started to get more specialized and separated between xc and dh. When there was nobody riding bikes we could go anywhere. There were no signs and no closures. I could ride anywhere in the national parks and did. Just off the pavement surrounding the townsite I could see my tracks 4 days later or if tracks had gone over them I could know who’s they were from their tire combo(there were only 6 or 8 tire options then). Then people started to discover the sport and signs went up. Timing allowed us to poach selectively for a few years. Then more people discovered it and then we had freeride/dh bikes or xc bikes. Sierra club , environmentalists, horse back riders and the law were now looking at mountain bikes as terrorists out to destroy the world(in spite of similar outside pursuits). Then the xc demographic was accepted . They promoted themselves as respectable citizens as opposed to the ruffian dhers . A lot of the xc riders threw dh riders under the bus using the same excuses that they were discriminated for . I’ve always just thought of myself as a mountain biker. Dh xc whatever. I like bikes on dirt. I would discuss the dh biker hate with friends and acquaintances and they would say “but your a downhiller”. Funny because I’ve road as much or more xc but because they only road xc and/or we’re scared to ride dh, I was a dh’er and because they didn’t or couldn’t do it dh riding was bad/evil for the same reason all mountain bikers years previously were ostracized. It’s not identical but the e bike thing has a familiar ring. I think there’s a time and a place and it’ll need regulations and signage but there’s certainly worse environmental 2 wheel pursuits that I’m ok with. There’s been a slight boost in bike sales were e bikes have been excepted and there’s been more miles covered but it’s been far from an onslaught. Populations are getting fitter because of them along with seasoned riders and lbs’ have seen a similar slight tic in business and trails are getting built with/because of them. It’s give and take but seems like the big picture is positive. The great trails we have now are by in large a result of the great bikes we have now. I can think of about 7 or 8 local high mountain loops that could easily be linked with these. Place is great now, it’d be unreal with a few 5-7000ft up and overs surrounding the town

[ill-advised strategy]

Luckily for the e-bikers around here we have tons of dirt biking/ motorized access trails.

Really? I wouldn't want to be sharing trails with fully-geared-up guys on 50 horsepower 2 stroke motocross bikes roosting gravel at me in my t-shirt and bike helmet going 5x slower with my electric mountain bike. Mixing dirtbikes with emtb's is a way worse mix than mixing ebikes and pedal bikes imho.

[ill-advised strategy]

Yeah, what happens when you are way the fuck in the middle of BFE and your battery dies? Riding a 40+lb bike back to civilization could be pretty fun. Will we see an increase in rescues of E-bikers?

How would that be different than any bikepacking trip?

[mtngirl79]

How would that be different than any bikepacking trip?

Because if the 40+lb ebike breaks the rider has to push a 40+lb thing loaded with gear.

If a regular bike breaks, it's more likely to be fixable on the trail, the rider pedalled to where ever they are and wasn't counting on a battery to get them out and they only have to push a 20ish lb thing loaded with gear.

Not a reason not to take an ebike packing trip on motorized trails, but something to think about. When you make it easy people without the required experience are more likely to be there...

[mtngirl79]

Really? I wouldn't want to be sharing trails with fully-geared-up guys on 50 horsepower 2 stroke motocross bikes roosting gravel at me in my t-shirt and bike helmet going 5x slower with my electric mountain bike. Mixing dirtbikes with emtb's is a way worse mix than mixing ebikes and pedal bikes imho.

What about hikers that already feel this intimidation you speak of about pedal bikes? Now we want them to share with even faster bikes?

[Flexon Phil]

The rules weren't made for the technology we currently have. Trying to apply rules set up to distinguish between a 1985 Stumpjumper and a 1985 Honda CR250 to a pedal enduro bike versus an enduro ebike is just fundamentalism. It's "NO MOTORS OF ANY KIND" fundamentalism....which is just as ridiculous as any other kind of fundamentalism.

It's like people who quote parts of the bible but not all of it. Like gun control, the thought of the automatic weapons that are out there now weren't even conceived. This is why we have 80MPH speed limits in some areas because the automotive technonoly is safe at that speed. Laws need to adjust for the technology at hand.

[ill-advised strategy]

Now we want them to share with even faster bikes?

Yup. I want them to do that, and I don't even think it's that big of a deal.

[mtngirl79]

Yup. I want them to do that, and I don't even think it's that big of a deal.

But you don't want to share with motos?

[ill-advised strategy]

At least where I live, there's a significant difference between walking my dog where there's moto use and where there is ebike use. The whole moto situation is people just hauling ass who just run stuff over at speed. They'll just run you over and kill you with a snowmobile or an atv. Ebike riders aren't really in the habit of just running over stuff that's in their way.

[Flexon Phil]

What about hikers that already feel this intimidation you speak of about pedal bikes? Now we want them to share with even faster bikes?

Now, you are concerned about the hikers. E-bikes max out at 20MPH which is slower than any novice to expert level rider can hit on down hills and even some flats. I have been riding one off and on for the past few weeks along with a acoustic bike. On a hill climb, it was faster but still not as fast as what the top 20 are on Strava. So, if speed is the issue...how do we control fast riders? Start monitoring Strava? What about the horses on the trail, horses are fast, they scare hikers. A horse is more likely to get spooked and go faster and scare hikers and bikers more than an e-bike can.

What else do you got?

[ill-advised strategy]

A Honda motocross motorcycle is so much different than a pedal-assist bicycle.

Can anybody else who has ridden dirtbikes back me up on this? It's not the same thing.

[ill-advised strategy]

Closed to motorized is closed to this:


pedal-assist bicycles are not the same.

[mtngirl79]

1. They can be modified to go faster.

2. Lots of multi use trails allow bikes to go up climbing trails but not down for safety reasons... pedal bikes climb pretty slow, rarely much faster than jogging. Sure, a few outlier, xc riders are super fast because they worked to get there. Ebikes will make Joe nextdoor who is reasonably fit but never rode a mountain bike just as fast. This is dangerous for hikers... and trail access.

3. There is limited enforcement of any rules on trails. If one ebike is allowed, all ebikes will be there and they will get faster and more powerful.

4. Human power is a thing. We spend our lives in cars, with cell phones, houses with TVs and appliances and computers that suck up resources and power and everything else.

Having places that you have to use your own body's energy to get to is good for everyone.

5. Emountain bikes are not the same as pedal mountain bikes and should not be treated as such.

[ill-advised strategy]

fundamentalism

[ill-advised strategy]

[Flexon Phil]

1. They can be modified to go faster.

So can the gearing on a acoustic bike. So can a PED enhanced rider. Since you are going to bring up extremes, lets get them all out.

2. Lots of multi use trails allow bikes to go up climbing trails but not down for safety reasons... pedal bikes climb pretty slow, rarely much faster than jogging. Sure, a few outlier, xc riders are super fast because they worked to get there. Ebikes will make Joe nextdoor who is reasonably fit but never rode a mountain bike just as fast. This is dangerous for hikers... and trail access.

I have been passed by trail runners. How do you know Joe has never ridden a mountain bike? How do you know it's more dangerous..I am sure you have the stats to back it up.

3. There is limited enforcement of any rules on trails. If one ebike is allowed, all ebikes will be there and they will get faster and more powerful.

There are designated classes for these bikes set by the manufacturers, I seriously doubt that they will be designed to go faster, in fact I am guessing that might see them dropping back to 20KhM at some point for off trail specific bikes.

4. Human power is a thing. We spend our lives in cars, with cell phones, houses with TVs and appliances and computers that suck up resources and power and everything else.

Having places that you have to use your own body's energy to get to is good for everyone.

And yet you are on your virtual soap box telling others how to live their lives.

5. Emountain bikes are not the same as pedal mountain bikes and should not be treated as such.

And this knowledge comes from the many miles you have logged on one, right?

[BCMtnHound]

Put me on the list of want. Something to commute to work year round, hauling the kiddos gear to the beach, grabbing a few groceries on the way back from work, etc. Studded fat tires in winter, and 29ers in the summer. I think they would be the bomb for deer hunting the older grown-in forestry roads, nice and quiet. Maybe next spring, 10 months to appeal to my wife’s generous side...

[mtngirl79]

Speed and distance increase impact.

On trails, on humans, on wildlife.

Human powered and battery power is not the same.

[mtngirl79]

So can the gearing on a acoustic bike. So can a PED enhanced rider. Since you are going to bring up extremes, lets get them all out.

human power has human limits.

I have been passed by trail runners. How do you know Joe has never ridden a mountain bike? How do you know it's more dangerous..I am sure you have the stats to back it up.

Speed always increases danger.

There are designated classes for these bikes set by the manufacturers, I seriously doubt that they will be designed to go faster, in fact I am guessing that might see them dropping back to 20KhM at some point for off trail specific bikes.

Who will monitor this? Home mods or just a different sticker makes it impossible to enforce.

You can buy kits and make just about any bike an ebike...

And yet you are on your virtual soap box telling others how to live their lives.

No, I disagree with your opinion that electric powered bikes are the same and belong in the same place as human powered bikes. I could care less what you ride provided you don't bring motors on non motorized trails.

And this knowledge comes from the many miles you have logged on one, right?

I'm not sure why I need to ride something to see how fast it goes and know it has a motor.

I'm sure they are a riot. They still are not non motorized vehicles. They still should not be classified as "bikes".

[Flexon Phil]

Speed and distance increase impact.

On trails, on humans, on wildlife.

Human powered and battery power is not the same.

So, how fast are riders allowed to ride? How far are they allowed to ride?

No, they are not the same. These are an assist and do NOT work unless the rider is actually pedalling.