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  1. #3651
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    What do you mean by another level of bike to get around hairpins?

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    Probably heavy + long wheelbase, but I speculate.
    Common sense. So rare today in America it's almost like having a superpower.

  2. #3652
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    There's a bunch of adjustments between a 5.5 and an e bullit. Techniques will adapt over time. My perspective changed a million times in a couple months. 2 years later im still fine tuning as i discover possibilities the E brings to the table. No rush if youre always having fun

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  3. #3653
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    What do you mean by another level of bike to get around hairpins?
    I didnt compared all the specs, I just got the text from shop bro and pulled the trigger, in this market you shoot 1st before the other guy

    but the 5.5 had a 67 degree head tube/ was pre-upright seat posts, while the bullit is 64/ steep 77 seat tube, 140 mm compared to 170mm travel front & rear, I'm betting a longer WB , its a mullet but I can't say I felt that

    SO on the tighter banked hairpins where i ride i need to work out the lines again cuz sometimes I ran out of corner, I wasn't even on the motor, its a bit different to how I have been riding them for the last 3 yrs but its not that far off from the 5.5, until i get used to it with 170mm I just ride over whatever is in the way

    it would probably be REALLY different for someone who had no experiance on any enduro bike

    still it was just the first ride they do tell you on the SC site if you want a less aggressive bike try the heckler
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  4. #3654
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    Our bikes are very close. Actually a large decoy would be closer to a medium bullit for reach and still not too long by todays standard. The one thing id wish is my decoy had a 450 reach. My commencal meta am 465 reach is great at speed in the bike park but it requires being faster than tighter xc trails would dictate. That can be fun but sometimes you want to whip around things rather than straight line everything. 450 reach would drop me in the middle of my decoy and commencal. Still agile. The weight , wheelbase(longer chainstay and slack head angle) still gives it a ton of stability at speed. Mullet , low bb , new standovers, and not too long of reach keep the extra weight agile more than people would think.
    Im going to ditch my -1 degree angleset and put a 5mm reach headset in and also step iutside my normal stem lengths and go from my 35 to a 40. The angle set shortens my reach a few mm. 5mm reach adjust headset will give me 8mm from current reach and then additional 5mm with the 40mm stem. Together with my new 800mm bar and rolling it slightly forward ill be close to the equivalent of 450 reach. Splitting hairs but having both bikes at either ends of the spectrum gives me a good indication where id like to be. A large decoy would be preferable though

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  5. #3655
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    while it moving the weight is not that noticeable and the faster you go the more gyro effect, if you get stopped and have to get going again on some janky root/ rock that can be tough but I probably shouldn't have stalled out cuz I got enough power to ride thru anything again it was the first ride

    I was expecting a clattering noise from the EP8 motor but it wasnt that bad
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  6. #3656
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    Ya first ride i think. I think you'll be glad you have the travel because why not. Id guess youll be lowering the seat for clombing eventually too. All the habits i had to alter a bit. Took me a while to commit to the steeper climbs too. My mind was calibrated to steam powered climbs. Once that intuition is unlocked the whole experience expands

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  7. #3657
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Our bikes are very close. Actually a large decoy would be closer to a medium bullit for reach and still not too long by todays standard. The one thing id wish is my decoy had a 450 reach. My commencal meta am 465 reach is great at speed in the bike park but it requires being faster than tighter xc trails would dictate. That can be fun but sometimes you want to whip around things rather than straight line everything. 450 reach would drop me in the middle of my decoy and commencal. Still agile. The weight , wheelbase(longer chainstay and slack head angle) still gives it a ton of stability at speed. Mullet , low bb , new standovers, and not too long of reach keep the extra weight agile more than people would think.
    Im going to ditch my -1 degree angleset and put a 5mm reach headset in and also step iutside my normal stem lengths and go from my 35 to a 40. The angle set shortens my reach a few mm. 5mm reach adjust headset will give me 8mm from current reach and then additional 5mm with the 40mm stem. Together with my new 800mm bar and rolling it slightly forward ill be close to the equivalent of 450 reach. Splitting hairs but having both bikes at either ends of the spectrum gives me a good indication where id like to be. A large decoy would be preferable though

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    How does the reach affect handling?

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  8. #3658
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    How does the reach affect handling?

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    Mainly stability and can ride more relaxed until it gets too long than he can become a chore. Longer can be better when its steep and gnarly and works well in combo with these new forks with less offset. Its gives the best of both worlds. Head angle is slack but maneavreable. Reach is stable but maneavreable. Its just finding that happy medium for all the different trails, speeds and body fit.
    My latest ebike wants and adaptations are enjoying the rideability of the not super steep seat angle. Also because the chainstays are generally a touch longer im appreciating the shorter reach to compensate. For my long torso short inseam ive been upsizing bikes from as far back as the mid 90's to get longer reach and then looking for bikes with shirt chainstays and jacking the bars up and short stems. Bars higher than some and stems a touch shorter than others short stems all because long torso short inseam. Now after 25 years of longer slacker i think a lot of bike companies have gone too far in a lot of cases, not all, despite being a body fit that leans in that direction. And now emtb with the longer chainstay and extra weight(the good and bad with it) thats flipped the requirements a bit. I now see the usefulness of the shorter(but still modern just not too short) reach to accomodate the extra weight, chainstay and wheelbase because of that extra chainstay. Its probably more crucial to have the sweet spot with the extra weight. The sweet spot is what makes that weight move ez. I've had wider bars with less sweep for a while because wide shoulders and ive been happy at 770-780 but the higher rise 800 has been great for the slow tech the emtb often sees. Climbing its moto trials position so the rise isnt a detriment but the rise is the height as i would have a triple clamp fork and great on the downs. The rise is great for pedaling through flatter tech too as we do more with assist. Upright, more control and carrying a little more speed and picking all sorts of different lines.The additional width has been amazing on slow tech climbs. Just little tweaks all the way around for the slightly different characteristics. The E just allows you to be looser with your setup rather than regimented into low front , high seated pedaling/climbing as well as pull that extra suspension, tires etc. Look at Akrigg, he never sits down when he's climbing tech

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  9. #3659
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    So maybe this should go in the rant thread, but 2 incidents have happened w/in my circle in past few weeks w bikers that just solidly the stereotypes.

    Wilderness 101 in state college, good buddy of mine gave up his likely top 10 finish for an ebiker who crashed in pretty remote areas of PA, not part of the race. Rode to hilltop to get cell reception and waited for ambulance on dirt roads. Rider had concussion or worse and never would have been in that spot w/o elec assistance.

    Today post ride w some buddies at one of my favorite and very challenging Rocky/tech trail system, group of ~15 ebikes rolled out from lot while we were having apres parking lot beers. Few minutes later one comes back and beats around it for a minute before asking for all our help extracting one rider from the woods 1/4mi into trail. Apparently the other 13 left Ďem. So 5 of us head back to help extract rider from something he had 100% no business being on. Running shoes, cotton tshirt, no riding shorts on a pretty humid EC day (elitist opinion or not, still fíing true). We ended up helping him out of woods w broken ankle, but all late to families etc. My buddies comment was absolutely appropriate later, ďso do they provide self accountability classes with purchase of Levoís?Ē

    During discussion guys mention other places they ride (Fair Hill and Brandywine) and itís clear that w/o ebike there would be almost no way theyíd have gotten themselves into this situation, given fitness demands of the climbing etc.

    So contrast that w the few guys we know riding ebikes for trail maintenance, building and who legitimately have the skill to ride them.

    Call me an asshole whatever, but thereís 0 chance the two situations happen w/ acoustic bikes. 1 step forward (good riders/trail maintenance), 2-3 steps back with 2 situations above.


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  10. #3660
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    Ya ur an asshole
    Wicked combo being not too bright either. Id explain but the not too bright part tells me you wouldnt understand

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  11. #3661
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    Electric Bike Thread

    100%!expected that response from you, but your bias is always on full display.

    Meritocracy is completely appropriate in cases like this, you short cut the skill you get hurt and expose others bc of your mistakes.


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  12. #3662
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    Ya ive never heard of a steam powered mtber going somewhere they dont have the skill for and getting hurt.
    Who's biased here you fkn dimwit

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  13. #3663
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Ya ive never heard of a steam powered mtber going somewhere they dont have the skill for and getting hurt.
    Who's biased here you fkn dimwit

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    You really are the biggest a-hole on Sprockets.

  14. #3664
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    Its tough when you have the sudden realization that i might be speaking the truth eh?

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  15. #3665
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Mainly stability and can ride more relaxed until it gets too long than he can become a chore. Longer can be better when its steep and gnarly and works well in combo with these new forks with less offset. Its gives the best of both worlds. Head angle is slack but maneavreable. Reach is stable but maneavreable. Its just finding that happy medium for all the different trails, speeds and body fit.
    My latest ebike wants and adaptations are enjoying the rideability of the not super steep seat angle. Also because the chainstays are generally a touch longer im appreciating the shorter reach to compensate. For my long torso short inseam ive been upsizing bikes from as far back as the mid 90's to get longer reach and then looking for bikes with shirt chainstays and jacking the bars up and short stems. Bars higher than some and stems a touch shorter than others short stems all because long torso short inseam. Now after 25 years of longer slacker i think a lot of bike companies have gone too far in a lot of cases, not all, despite being a body fit that leans in that direction. And now emtb with the longer chainstay and extra weight(the good and bad with it) thats flipped the requirements a bit. I now see the usefulness of the shorter(but still modern just not too short) reach to accomodate the extra weight, chainstay and wheelbase because of that extra chainstay. Its probably more crucial to have the sweet spot with the extra weight. The sweet spot is what makes that weight move ez. I've had wider bars with less sweep for a while because wide shoulders and ive been happy at 770-780 but the higher rise 800 has been great for the slow tech the emtb often sees. Climbing its moto trials position so the rise isnt a detriment but the rise is the height as i would have a triple clamp fork and great on the downs. The rise is great for pedaling through flatter tech too as we do more with assist. Upright, more control and carrying a little more speed and picking all sorts of different lines.The additional width has been amazing on slow tech climbs. Just little tweaks all the way around for the slightly different characteristics. The E just allows you to be looser with your setup rather than regimented into low front , high seated pedaling/climbing as well as pull that extra suspension, tires etc. Look at Akrigg, he never sits down when he's climbing tech

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    Not sure what my reach is, but feels comfortable on the up.

    On the down, i find that i have to hinge a lot to put weight on the front wheel, otherwise the bike won't turn.
    Head angle is 64.5

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  16. #3666
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    yeah thats ^^ why i'm slamming the seat all the way forward, get more weight on the front wheel which is how I set up my Yeti, besides you almost never feel like you are going over the bars on these enduro bikes

    also de-greasing the chain for the switch to drip-on liquid wax which I liked on the Yeti

    I thot 3M film made a big difference on how the Yeti looked after 3 years so I got a roll but with the size of these frame members I may need 2 rolls !
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #3667
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    yeah thats ^^ why i'm slamming the seat all the way forward, get more weight on the front wheel which is how I set up my Yeti, besides you almost never feel like you are going over the bars on these enduro bikes

    also de-greasing the chain for the switch to drip-on liquid wax which I liked on the Yeti

    I thot 3M film made a big difference on how the Yeti looked after 3 years so I got a roll but with the size of these frame members I may need 2 rolls !
    I was actually talking about descending

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  18. #3668
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    I'd say raise the bar or higher rise bar. It takes a little adjusting from what youve been used to when you turn around to climb after but not much. Im always amazed watching some youtubers put up their vids and i see them gripped trying to get their weight back on the dh. They have their bike set up towards an xc rider. It looks so obvious. Maybe thats not your case but i see that a lot. With a higher bar you have all the time in the world to bend your elbows to gey over the front on a climb. On the dh you have fractions of a second to get your weight back rather than fight to stay off the front and then when you try you end up having straight arms and losing feel with the straight arms. For reference , if i measure up from the center of my bb perpendicular to the ground the height of the top of my grip is 1/4" longer than my leg inseam above that bb. Basically my hinge point of my hips will be below the fulcrum with the fulcrum being the bar even if my legs are straight. Like skiing where you steer from the hip, if you have that point below the ejection point(top of the bar) i can push on with a lot less worry. Easier to keep your head up looking farther in front of you. Quiet upper body with the hips swinging below the bars

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  19. #3669
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    Interesting, on the down, i have to focus more on starting forward then getting back

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  20. #3670
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Interesting, on the down, i have to focus more on starting forward then getting back

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    It can help putting weight on the front wheel as well. I say depends because it depends where your body weight is overall. You have a better feel at the bars if your arms are bent so you can push or pull. Shorter stem and/or more rise can do that. Emtb have that longer back end/chainstay so that already weights the front more. Cheap experiment but give it a few good rides if you think that may work. Hard for me to tell but just what ive found so the shorter reach on the decoy helps that. My decoy has a small 100mm headtube and they cut the fork steerer to low so ive been finding ways to claw that height back. 20mm longer travel fork and then a 50mm rise bar has me right. Every 10mm i clawed back gave me more confidence. It only took dropping into a few steep switchbacks with the correct rise to realize i could keep my weight centered with the right amount of arm and leg bend to push on the edge of both f/r tires evenly. Sort of what a fat rockered ski does. You may not think youre risking an otb but its amazing how hard you can charge when theres no chance the tips dive. Then its just full gas pushing forward no panic reaction

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  21. #3671
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    moving the seat is easy to try and costs nothing

    spacers under the stem are cheap n easy
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  22. #3672
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    Exactly. And try and use those adjustments for those situations that call for it. Use the highrer rise bar for dropping into switchbacks or the sterper sections of any trail. Youre finding what works on the situations that pay dividends , whether thats speed or saving your bacon. You can always readjust for the ez parts of any trail
    With the seat movement it be interesting to hear impressions on how that works on a flatter technical section of trail or a technical climb that you can carry a bit of speed with assisy and keep pedaling. Seat down 2-3" pedaling, moving the bike on little wall rides or popping over rocks and roots. Things that youd do more on an emtb. That power can free up a lot of body movement. I end up taking a lot of different lines than on the enduro bike. Sometimes i get a line on the tech climbs with the emtb and go back and make it work on the enduro bike

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  23. #3673
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    Rode an ebike for the first time yesterday. We had been riding for an hour or so on our normal bikes and stopped in at the demo site. Took one for a quick spin. Interesting for sure, but I'm not ready for it yet. Even on the easiest power level, it was too much assistance. Granted, I only took one bike for a lap, a Giant, so others would be different. Some day I'll have one, just not now.

  24. #3674
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    Electric Bike Thread

    Iíll fucking guarantee youíll have one someday, unless you die suddenly, soon.

    Iíve never ridden the Yamaha, but Iíve also never ridden an ebike where eco was too much.
    Just turn it off.

  25. #3675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shredhead View Post
    Iíll fucking guarantee youíll have one someday, unless you die suddenly, soon.

    Iíve never ridden the Yamaha, but Iíve also never ridden an ebike where eco was too much.
    Just turn it off.
    Very true. I never use eco. trail and emtb only

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