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  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    aint really got a dog in the fight
    but if i put any motor on the sup or driftboat i wont be able to float motor less waterways
    and im not seeing much difference on land
    Move along old fellah. Last time you rode a bike you crashed it and fucked yer shoulder.
    Go on now

    Future so Bright
    crab in my shoe mouth

  2. #277
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    How many folks dreaming about brapping up and bombing down have actually ridden one of these things? They're heavy and awkward.

    If you can't find one to ride, just watch any e-bike porn vid currently being passed around.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  3. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    How many folks dreaming about brapping up and bombing down have actually ridden one of these things? They're heavy and awkward.

    If you can't find one to ride, just watch any e-bike porn vid currently being passed around.
    2008: "45 pound DH bikes are stupid. We really need to lighten these things up."

    2018: "45 pound Ebike? Sign me up!"

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    He couldn't figure out how to remove the rear wheel? What a tool.

  4. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    How many folks dreaming about brapping up and bombing down have actually ridden one of these things? They're heavy and awkward.
    I think some are anticipating that eventually they will improve and get lighter.

    But, yeah. I've seen people riding them downhill (illegally on the Tahoe Rim Trail, I should add) and they looked sluggish and extremely un-playful. I'm not sure if it's the total weight so much as how it's distributed?

  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    My position on e-bikes will change considerably if I can get helicopter rides out of it!
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    I suspect there's logic behind the madness, but I'm too dumb to see it.

  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Except he's trying to make some semantic point about the morality of using a motor to get to the top. It's a terrible argument. Shuttleable descents are a small subset of the total pool of non-motorized trails, and ebikes don't change the percentage of descents accessible by vehicle shuttles. Whereas, 100% of trails are accessible to ebikes.
    I was speaking more towards Mtngirl, and where she lives probably 1/3 up to 1/2 of all the mtn bike trails are unsanctioned shuttle trails that get hammered by DH bikes which blow up the trails far more than an average e-bike.

    I was also questioning why she was such a proponent of keeping wilderness areas only open to those willing to get there 100% under their own power without the need for technology... but oh yeah, its cool if you use a $4000 machine to get there too, because she currently owns one... but its not cool if you use an extremely similar machine because she doesnt have one.

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by alias_rice View Post
    Outside of Park City and maybe some Moab trails, I wonder if this is enforced at all in Utah. Hell, other than some citizen policing by mtn bikers, I doubt thereís much ebike enforcement at all. Iíve seen ebikes on Crest a few times and on Big Water just a few weeks ago. I bet none of the riders had any clue they were breaking the law.
    I've never seen a USFS ranger anywhere in the Wasatch, or anywhere else for that matter. Hell, people swim in Cecret Lake with near impunity and that's the easiest, most no-brainer place to issue citations to people flagrantly ignoring the law. That's what makes this so scary. They will justify closing everything based on the fact that they do not have the resources to conduct enforcement.

    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    I was also questioning why she was such a proponent of keeping wilderness areas only open to those willing to get there 100% under their own power without the need for technology... but oh yeah, its cool if you use a $4000 machine to get there too, because she currently owns one... but its not cool if you use an extremely similar machine because she doesnt have one.
    Mtngirl's bike doesn't cost anywhere near $4k, not even close. The gal drives a bus for a living. I've also seen pictures of her before she took up riding. A genetically gifted uber athlete she is most certainly not.

  8. #283
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    I think the scenario of viewing ebikes as a lower impact version of shuttle riding or Moto is great. I don't think they should be allowed in wilderness or non-motorized multiuse trails. I think they should be allowed on trails specifically meant for them, on freeride/dh specific trails or on unsanctioned "grey area" trails that are currently being shuttled by dh bros. And definitely allowed on FS roads like plated dirt bikes are. I think if they are viewed as a weird place between bikes and Moto's a place can be found for them.

  9. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by buttahflake View Post
    When these things get totally dialed in, like say, ten years from now. Iíll be 63 years old with shit knees. I am so totally buying all four flavors. Road, Gravel, MTB and Fat. Future so bright.
    Go on now
    The dialing in part is happening pretty quickly. There are some really nice, affordable, sub 40 pound bikes now and even a handful of sub 30#ers. Many of us that have been trail builders and advocates for the last 30 years will be in the same position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flexon Phil View Post
    But these laws were written before these were even conceived. Yes, to the letter of the law they are motorized, but to the spirit of the law, they are a bicycle.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by buttahflake View Post
    Yeah, same here. When they get the MTBís dialed in with long travel and semi-light weight. Iím in. Think how fun it would be on the worst stretches of class 4/snowmachine trails. Nobody rides those things in summer. Way too gnarly, endless steeps on technical lines. Go for six hour backwoods tours, fuck yes. Iím so pro-ebike. Iíll be riding when Iím 80+

    Edit:throttle is not what is is, itís pedal assist. And the first time you try it, you will laugh out loud. It makes perfect sense, what city will be the first to jump all in? And build an infrastructure dedicated to a new way of living.

    Future so bright
    I just put in my order for a 150/160 travel sub 40# bike that I'll ride anywhere I'm not risking arrest next year. I totally look forward to getting out to places like you mention here, I can think of so many all around the northeast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flexon Phil View Post
    Laws need to adjust for the technology at hand.
    You keep saying what I'm thinking. I'm going to borrow some of these quotes

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    in any case if a bike has an electric motor its motorized and there are all kinds of places to ride something with a motor besides the non-motorized trails
    Not everywhere. I mentioned earlier that in some states, like NY where I live, there are NO legal places to ride an OHV on public land anywhere in the state. Same thing below >

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
    I didn't realize this but e-bikes are banned from public land 'natural surface' trails in Washington. This law was recently passed through the WA legislature and signed by the Governor. It provides for local land managers to use as they see fit.

    https://nsmb.com/articles/washington...-bikes-trails/
    Quote Originally Posted by concretejungle View Post
    I checked out the bike b-bear linked to but they don't have any for the lanky individual. Recommend me something for a four mile commute on roads and bike paths.
    Norco VLT S2 comes in an XL.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Of course rogue builders drove the sport. I was a rogue builder. Then went full official. Then got screwed by the trail org I founded so am now full rogue. I get that.

    My point is if you (meaning ebikers) want to get sanctioned then they've got the do the work themselves. Someone else in this godforsaken thread made that point. Whining about on here isn't going to do shit.

    And if ebikers don't want to be sanctioned and just want to poach then do it. Don't whine about it on this thread. Just poach.

    I'm off to get some KOMs/ Strava comes first
    I have tried to advocate a little bit and got asked to leave several meetings because my line of thinking didn't fit theirs. They said that they don't need to listen to what I have to say. At this point I probably won't be a part of trying anymore locally because I'll be the guy poaching and I don't want them to know me as the guy that chooses to break the rules after being told I'm not welcome.

  10. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Mtngirl's bike doesn't cost anywhere near $4k, not even close. The gal drives a bus for a living. I've also seen pictures of her before she took up riding. A genetically gifted uber athlete she is most certainly not.
    Which misses the point i was making about her stance on humans using machines to travel efficiently in the mountains/wilderness.

  11. #286
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    As I previously said, I road one at a demo day here where they are currently allowed. The trail system is steeper with designated up and down trails. People also shuttle this area. The Pivot ebike also has a 10k price tag, and while heavy, I had a really good time on the downhill, but also the uphill. Sure, I can get down a bit faster on my standard bike, but I was jumping the ebike, using the built up features, and having fun. The weight on the ebike is really low on the frame. Overall a really fun time riding it.

    I don't plan on buying an ebike anytime soon, but in systems where it is steeper and already is setup for car shuttle, these make sense to me. Think ridge lines with long approaches and steep descents - designated up and down trails. While meandering 2 way XC trails along rivers and such, not so much.

    I got as good as or even a better workout on the ebike than I typically do at this area because much more ground was covered in the same amount of time.

  12. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Not everywhere. I mentioned earlier that in some states, like NY where I live, there are NO legal places to ride an OHV on public land anywhere in the state. Same thing below >
    If it's the same as you quoted then you have it wrong. E-bikes being banned from "natural surface trails" does not mean no place to ride them, it means they have to stick to motorized trails. Which absolutely exist in Washington, where Goldmember is. He's referenced a moto park in this thread and there are lots of others. If e-bikes are taken to deserted FS roads there are tons of places you can go, even ignoring motorized singletrack.

  13. #288
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    I wonder how ďfireroads onlyĒ will work. Should be no problem
    #kummmmbiyamf #namasteyo

  14. #289
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    Still waiting for confirmation that that exists someplace; either NY is the same as WA or it isn't.

  15. #290
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    Specifically in WA state, the wording allows local control so some public natural surface trails could be used as dictated by local authority.

    "Generally, a person may not operate an electric-assisted bicycle on a trail that is designated asnonmotorized and that has a natural surface, unless otherwise authorized by the state agency
    or local authority having jurisdiction over the trail."

    http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/bienni...20APH%2018.pdf

    There's some wiggle room for use on dirt but I haven't seen anything specific to our local trails that would supercede this new law. Time may allow some trails to be opened to e-bikes but since this law only came into effect two weeks ago, it's pretty quiet so far.

  16. #291
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    i really disagree that bikes and ebikes share the same spirit, one of the main core aspects of cycling is being human powered rather than having a motor, it completely changes the dynamic of the sport

    would a laser guided ball still be baseball? what about extendable go go gadget arms for basketball? or maybe running with robot legs?

    ive ridden ebikes, im not against having fun on 2 wheels, but piggybacking off an established sport and trying to rewrite the rules seems like bs to me, sometimes you need to call a spade a spade


    my other concern is for the groms
    many of us love bikes because they gave us our first taste of freedom, our ego and confidence was directly tied to them as we grew up, ive watched shy timid kids get on bikes and discover who they are and grow confidence that translates into other aspects of their lives, its rad, and it creates quality human beings, which is important for society as a whole
    if groms are charging up batteries before blasting around the block, if the size of the battery pack becomes more important than the skill and give'r attitude, then what will happen with the future generation and how they view society? that concerns me...

    im all for getting kids off of couches, but putting them onto battery operated toys is a step the wrong direction imo

  17. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    You say the darndest things


    Attachment 241720

    People travel specifically to glacier to ride that trail. It's awesome.
    Not only is this a great moto trail, it is also a fun bike ride. You know what happens when bikers and motorcycles meet up there? They say hi awesome trail, have a great day. They smile,And they ride on.
    You know why, because it is hard and weak people canít ride it. As in no Whiney ass bitches. You know what would happen if a motorcycle or Mt biker encountered an ebike, same thing. Strong people are strong of mind and body. They are not threatened by others being stronger than themselves, they know it is an inevitable fact of life.
    The donít make up weak excuses like too much trail impact or environmental degradation on any other bullshit. Weak people take it personally when they get passed so the make up fucked up rules to protect their fragile egos.

    When horses fuck up my trails, I get a rake and shovel and fix them itís that simple.
    I donít have an ebike , but they seem sweet to me.

  18. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    I was speaking more towards Mtngirl, and where she lives probably 1/3 up to 1/2 of all the mtn bike trails are unsanctioned shuttle trails that get hammered by DH bikes which blow up the trails far more than an average e-bike.

    I was also questioning why she was such a proponent of keeping wilderness areas only open to those willing to get there 100% under their own power without the need for technology... but oh yeah, its cool if you use a $4000 machine to get there too, because she currently owns one... but its not cool if you use an extremely similar machine because she doesnt have one.
    There are also a lot of unsanctioned trails you have to pedal for. Also lots of legal trails you have to pedal here and nearby.

    Those are the trails I'm concerned about..

    Shuttle trails, moto trails, ebike away.. i don't give a fuck.

    Also, my nearly 4,000 dollar (full retail) bike was stolen. Current hardtail, 1500, used.

    And I'm actually opposed it bikes in designated wilderness almost all the time. I might support a loophole to have a few connector trails to complete long rides or allow a pass through in a large wilderness area, mostly, I just don't think bikes belong in wilderness areas.

  19. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Kanone View Post
    Not only is this a great moto trail, it is also a fun bike ride. You know what happens when bikers and motorcycles meet up there? They say hi awesome trail, have a great day. They smile,And they ride on.
    You know why, because it is hard and weak people can’t ride it. As in no Whiney ass bitches. You know what would happen if a motorcycle or Mt biker encountered an ebike, same thing. Strong people are strong of mind and body. They are not threatened by others being stronger than themselves, they know it is an inevitable fact of life.
    The don’t make up weak excuses like too much trail impact or environmental degradation on any other bullshit. Weak people take it personally when they get passed so the make up fucked up rules to protect their fragile egos.

    When horses fuck up my trails, I get a rake and shovel and fix them it’s that simple.
    I don’t have an ebike , but they seem sweet to me.
    It's also very lightly used and so it's easy to share.

    Try allowing motos on a busy trail system and it doesnt work so well.

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Kanone View Post
    Not only is this a great moto trail, it is also a fun bike ride. You know what happens when bikers and motorcycles meet up there? They say hi awesome trail, have a great day. They smile,And they ride on.
    You know why, because it is hard and weak people canít ride it. As in no Whiney ass bitches. You know what would happen if a motorcycle or Mt biker encountered an ebike, same thing. Strong people are strong of mind and body. They are not threatened by others being stronger than themselves, they know it is an inevitable fact of life.
    The donít make up weak excuses like too much trail impact or environmental degradation on any other bullshit. Weak people take it personally when they get passed so the make up fucked up rules to protect their fragile egos.

    When horses fuck up my trails, I get a rake and shovel and fix them itís that simple.
    I donít have an ebike , but they seem sweet to me.
    Word!!!

    Amazing when you meet and work together with different user groups. All of a sudden they arenít the boogie man. In Banff Iíd always say hi to the horse back riders. They were rude at first then by the end of the year theyíd recognize me. After a particular long loop that I ran out of light in a storm, they recognized me and put me up in the dood cabin and fed me. Freaked their NY clients out when they came out on the porch after supper to discover a loan shivering rider in the middle of nowhere, waiting for the rain to subside.It was an annual thing every year with the new horse guides. Same result. Say hi and let them pass goes a long way.
    Interesting to see Jeremy Jones on one. He doesnít have to prove heís a bad ass climber. Nothing to prove. Just go have fun and probably gets the same workout(more than most). Others look for excuses to discredit e bikes while simultaneously flexing in their speedos on why they donít ďneedĒ them

  21. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by forty View Post


    my other concern is for the groms
    many of us love bikes because they gave us our first taste of freedom, our ego and confidence was directly tied to them as we grew up, ive watched shy timid kids get on bikes and discover who they are and grow confidence that translates into other aspects of their lives, its rad, and it creates quality human beings, which is important for society as a whole
    if groms are charging up batteries before blasting around the block, if the size of the battery pack becomes more important than the skill and give'r attitude, then what will happen with the future generation and how they view society? that concerns me...

    im all for getting kids off of couches, but putting them onto battery operated toys is a step the wrong direction imo
    Kids have been cruising around in battery operated toys for a long time. Seems like a decade or so ago those electric scooters were all rage. I donít think ebikes are gonna make our kids any fatter than video games.

  22. #297
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    Electric Bike Thread

    Ya those metaphors are wack. Extenda arms in basketball? Really?
    That goal would be to win. Ebike is just to get the feeling. More turns. No competition. The by product is a good workout.
    With kids, it can be hard to get them off the coach. They live to go out and play but some times...... people are saying they ride more with ebikes. On their regular rides they ride more ,or precisely , more of a workout because more turns equals more reward. Some days they arenít feeling it and it would otherwise be a day off but they can jump on there e bike and go get a short la in. Sounds like kids would get out more if thatís the case. Also kids being kids they would inevitably run out of battery or forget to charge or try and short the charge and get by. Theyíd end up pedalling a heavy bike or learning a valuable lesson

  23. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    There are also a lot of unsanctioned trails you have to pedal for. Also lots of legal trails you have to pedal here and nearby.

    Those are the trails I'm concerned about..

    Shuttle trails, moto trails, ebike away.. i don't give a fuck.

    Also, my nearly 4,000 dollar (full retail) bike was stolen. Current hardtail, 1500, used.

    And I'm actually opposed it bikes in designated wilderness almost all the time. I might support a loophole to have a few connector trails to complete long rides or allow a pass through in a large wilderness area, mostly, I just don't think bikes belong in wilderness areas.
    To summarize, you are against E-bikes because you don't think they work hard enough to earn their descents and general mountain experience, because they beat up trails more than mountain bikes currently do, and because rules are rules and they need to follow the rules regarding motorized bikes. Is this about right?

  24. #299
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    do some of you really not feel that bicycling by its very nature is an activity that does not involve a motor and requires self propellant?

    it just seems so obvious to me... its the core defining aspect of cycling in my eyes...

    that isnt me saying ebikes are wrong or bad, its saying its not cycling and shouldnt piggyback off cycling culture and should develop its own framework and identity outside of the established long held cycling roots

    i also dont think convincing kids to get on bikes by video gamifying them is a step that will lead anywhere beneficial and only moves our culture further into spending money rather than putting in effort

    i feel like some of you are the first to bitch about participation trophies, but arent seeing the connection here, in my eyes this is the same shit, put in work, get reward, thats what makes bikes so radsauce, thats what makes skiing so radsauce, thats what makes things like watch collecting not radsauce, its pay to win encouragement culture imo

  25. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    If I ever see one up there they're getting an earful.
    Yeah! Give those whipper snappers a piece of your mind!!!

    Kids these days... No respect...

    GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!

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