Dirt in the PNWet

[californiagrown]

Pugetopolis riders: Is there some kind of plan for maintenance @ Raging River? It's been beaten to absolute shit. First time out this year. It want great last year but Poppin to "Flow state" now bordering on full rock garden status due to rider volume. New Cedar Creek DH also full of holes already. Why we can't have nice things...

Canyon creek... is more than a year old now. It's agile trail building where you dont strip out organics in the tread and replace with mineral dirt, instead they let the trail get ridden in (more rake and ride style)... that allows for quickly built trails, but REQUIRES yearly maintenance. Maintenance doesn't happen during moondust season... Never has, never will. August is always the most blown out . Come back in the fall and winter and throw some dirt, or throw some money at EMBA. Or better yet both!


Raging is the most popular trailhead and PT/FS sees by far the most rides of any trail in the state and flow trails are super susceptible to getting blown out. It's blown out this time of year, every year... same as Crank it up, heart of darkness, etc. No rain in months... Tiger rides really well right now, as does Darrington.



On an unrelated note, I was pleasantly surprised by the Ski bowl bike park. Pretty fun little spot, if limited in variety. Wasn't too big a fan of Timberline to Town, but with a free shuttle that picked up at my rental condo I rode it 3 times... Fun, but not worth a pedal.

[Huskier]

Canyon creek... is more than a year old now. It's agile trail building where you dont strip out organics in the tread and replace with mineral dirt, instead they let the trail get ridden in (more rake and ride style)... that allows for quickly built trails, but REQUIRES yearly maintenance. Maintenance doesn't happen during moondust season... Never has, never will. August is always the most blown out . Come back in the fall and winter and throw some dirt, or throw some money at EMBA. Or better yet both!


Raging is the most popular trailhead and PT/FS sees by far the most rides of any trail in the state and flow trails are super susceptible to getting blown out. It's blown out this time of year, every year... same as Crank it up, heart of darkness, etc. No rain in months... Tiger rides really well right now, as does Darrington.



On an unrelated note, I was pleasantly surprised by the Ski bowl bike park. Pretty fun little spot, if limited in variety. Wasn't too big a fan of Timberline to Town, but with a free shuttle that picked up at my rental condo I rode it 3 times... Fun, but not worth a pedal.

My point was more that it doesn't seem like much maintenance is happening in the "off-season" but they're adding trails (CCDH). Then again I'm not sure what kind of maintenance can be done to remedy the bomb hole'd berm entries aside from putting down pavers, so maybe just building new trails is the answer.

I'd be interested in lending a hand but not sure if they are doing volunteer work parties...

[nickwm21]

Canyon creek... is more than a year old now. It's agile trail building where you dont strip out organics in the tread and replace with mineral dirt, instead they let the trail get ridden in (more rake and ride style)... that allows for quickly built trails, but REQUIRES yearly maintenance.

The trails built in that fashion seem to become more and more hardy following each of that blow-up/repair cycle…. as long as Evergreen continues to do their good work… EBAD and NOTG are in better condition this season than at this point in time during their first season…


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[californiagrown]

My point was more that it doesn't seem like much maintenance is happening in the "off-season" but they're adding trails (CCDH). Then again I'm not sure what kind of maintenance can be done to remedy the bomb hole'd berm entries aside from putting down pavers, so maybe just building new trails is the answer.



I'd be interested in lending a hand but not sure if they are doing volunteer work parties...

It's a crazy popular high speed flowtrail. It gets babybutt smooth after maintenance in the fall, and again in the spring. Then we have 3 months of drought and 10,000 riders hammering the trail. Hardly surprising it gets blown up. Nothing you can do. Whistler bike park has blown out trails and they have a full time trail staff and sprinklers.

I'd much rather EMBA focus on adding trails of all varieties than focus on trying to maintain a blue/green flow trail during summer months. YMMV. 5 new trails about to come online at Tiger, FWIW. Plenty more in the process of being built. More trails will help spread the crowds.

They've been doing volunteer work parties for many months. And it's real easy to just email and ask when and where you can help the main builder if big groups aren't your thing.

The trails built in that fashion seem to become more and more hardy following each of that blow-up/repair cycle…. as long as Evergreen continues to do their good work… EBAD and NOTG are in better condition this season than at this point in time during their first season…


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NOTG is running so, so good right now. I think it's a great method of trail building. The trail ends up requiring the same amount of work overtime as traditional methods, but it comes online far quicker... And legal loamers (at least for the first couple months) are the shit!! I have nothing but great things to say about EMBA and the way they handle business and build trail. Fucking Fenominal organization.

[altasnob]

If you're looking for a work party, Cheasty park, Seattle's first and only real mountain bike park, is always looking for volunteers. I lived in the area when the idea was just getting started 2011. It's literally been a decade of NIMBY red tape but they finally got the go ahead to start build the trails there.

https://www.evergreenmtb.org/calendar/work-parties

https://www.cheasty.org/

http://www.seattle.gov/parks/about-u...-pilot-project

[XavierD]

Eh,
it would be nice to see the trails at raging get better maintenance but it has also been very dry and as mentioned those trails get a ton of traffic. CCDH was also blown out before it was open. PT and the front side also get a lot of wind which dries them out quick. Evergreen is working on these trails but there is only so much you can do right now.

As mentioned Tiger trails are riding pretty great, although I'm pretty sure they are DNR builds not evergreen. New trails are great and there will be more added this fall.

Sanctioned riding at the pass next summer will really help alleviate the load Popin Tops and Flow state take.

Cheasty will be a fun little area, hopefully we can keep it from becoming Colonade 2.0

[altasnob]

Tiger is on DNR land but Evergreen built most of the trails there. Haven't been to Colonade in a while. What's wrong with it? Has it fallen in disrepair? Cheasty is an actual green space, not crammed under I-5. So it will be more like a real mountain bike trail, although not that long. Good for a few laps for people who can bike there.

[jacob_dbu]

Tiger is on DNR land but Evergreen built most of the trails there. Haven't been to Colonade in a while. What's wrong with it? Has it fallen in disrepair? Cheasty is an actual green space, not crammed under I-5. So it will be more like a real mountain bike trail, although not that long. Good for a few laps for people who can bike there.

Colonnade fell into disrepair yes. In part due to lack of interest but also in part due to the presence of people experiencing homelessness. A small handful of those folks we’re causing excessive damage and disruption that kind of made it hard to ride or maintain trails there.

[altasnob]

I helped with some of the first Colondade work parties in 2005. We were tasked with picking up the needles, condoms, mattresses, and other homeless garbage. So I guess it's just reverting back to its natural state.

Seattle (and Tacoma) have a ton of underutilized urban forests that are overgrown with invasive ivy and blackberries. It would be great to restore these to a more natural habitat and have both bike and pedestrian trails that people can use. Cheasty is a "pilot" project in the city. If it is popular, the city may allow more trails to be built in other green spaces. The people behind Cheasty have been battling the neighbors for over a decade (neighbors have hired land use attorneys to exhaust every administrative appeal possible to shut down the project). The neighbors think that if trails are built, it will attract people from all over the city, make their street parking more crowded, and potentially attract homeless to set up shop there. The neigbors prefer ivy chocked trees over an actual natural, usable forest. The mtbers behind the Cheasty project are pretty dedicated (again, they have fought for 10+ years). So as long as they don't move from the area, I think they will keep the area in top shape.

This is a big project for everyone because if it succeeds, and you want to build a trail in your local greenspace, you can point to the success of Cheasty as an example. How many large cities in Washington (or anywhere) have quality mountain bike trails in the city limits? Tacoma has Swan Creek, which is Evergreen built and is a massive success. I ride there regularly and you will see the most diverse group of bikers anywhere (local kids on huffys, not just wealthy dude's with $5k bikes).

[jacob_dbu]

That’s great to hear a more in depth. I’ll have to go out and help at Cheasty, it’s just FAR in west Seattle. Especially with the bridge down. But I’d love to see it be a massive success.

[XavierD]

is there anything that’s not far from West Seattle right now? It’s a great little project. Adding more trails in and around the city areas is something which will be great for the area.

Crews I have seen recently on Tiger have all been DNR.

[nickwm21]

RE: West Seattle… (East Vashon as the locals call it…)

The Duwamish Greenbelt has potential…. There is an undeveloped hobo trail through that zone that I tried to ride once. Completely overgrown, no bridges over the various gully’s, etc…. You could easily build 1 or 2 N/S trails from Westcrest Park through Riverview to Pigeon Point. It would be ~5mi point to point with one road crossing (Highland Park)… How amazing would that be for the cyclists and runners in the area?!?

North SeaTac trails are decent for what they are. Not worth driving to but if I lived within 3mi I’d probably lap those trails after work for fitness… likely a good spot to introduce a child to mountain biking…


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[Dromond]

I rode Tiger four mornings in the last 9 days:

Last Saturday: poured rain. Soaked to my underwear. I was just happy to see water.

Tuesday: ultra hero loam brown pow

Thursday: totally dry - really good overall

Today (Sunday): the heat wave sucked most moisture out of the ground and some dry loose areas are developing. Still good riding overall.

I’m over this dry PNW summer thing - more regular rain is where it’s at!

Props to all the amazing trail builders out there - great riding even in late summer!

[XavierD]

Thursday was hero dirt on Tiger

[NW_SKIER]

Thursday was hero dirt on Tiger

Having been there Monday, I would say you're wrong. Monday was the day.

[phatty]

Is there a consensus on tires for Seattle area (Tiger, Raging River, etc.)? Just getting back into MTB and buying first new set in 15ish years. Are Maxxis Minion still the best all rounder? Will be going on '20 Spec Enduro.

[NW_SKIER]

Is there a consensus on tires for Seattle area (Tiger, Raging River, etc.)? Just getting back into MTB and buying first new set in 15ish years. Are Maxxis Minion still the best all rounder? Will be going on '20 Spec Enduro.

Can't really go wrong with a DHF or Assegai up front, and DHR2 rear. I recommend the triple compound maxterra if you want any grip on the wet roots.


Eta: PM me if you want to join me for a lap sometime.

[Huskier]

Can't really go wrong with a DHF or Assegai up front, and DHR2 rear. I recommend the triple compound maxterra if you want any grip on the wet roots.


Eta: PM me if you want to join me for a lap sometime.

X2. I'm still not sure what's to gain going assegai over DHF in Maxgrip.

[SchralphMacchio]

I haven’t tried the Assegai’s yet but they have an intermediate knob and no true channels between the center and cornering knobs - so no dead zone at intermediate lean angles like on the DHF. Some people don’t like the DHF because it’s best used upright on straightaways or leaned over and committed in corners - and not the best in-between. Downsides are Assegai are heavier and supposedly slower rolling than DHF.

I can’t say which of the two will be better on wet PNW roots. When it’s wet season I don’t use the DHF. I like the DHF a lot, but it sucks balls on wet clay which we have a lot of down here. For wet roots (and loam, and clay) I’m running a half spike - Spesh Hillbilly up front and that bites them really well. Maxxis Shorty is the same style of tire so I imagine performance to be similar or better. I’ve seen reviews saying Conti Der Baron Projekt also does well with wet roots.

If you can lean a bike like a mofo and don’t really care for wet performance I’d probably say stick with DHF.

[californiagrown]

Crews I have seen recently on Tiger have all been DNR.

DNR built the new Northwest Timber Bypass, and built the new summit-to-iverson descent that should be opened this fall. Evergreen built the 3 new trails off/to Preston. DNR and EMBA work hand in hand on most projects- DNR will usually built climbing trails or more traversy or connector trails and EMBA will build the downhill focused trails... typically. Also, tiger got logged around iverson this spring, and i think DNR maintains the logging roads so maybe thats why you saw so much of them? We are pretty lucky to have a public agency so onboard with building MTB trail and maintaining access.


As for tires, I honestly love HRIIs in maxterra for around here.

Cant wait for lift laps on the pass next summer. I think that is going to be really, really cool to have a bike park <1hr away and with the community it serves i can't not see it being huge hit continues to expand, especially with EMBA involved.

[greenmachine]

who has been out? How are the trails now that we've had some rain?

[phatty]

who has been out? How are the trails now that we've had some rain?

It can only be better. I rode Grand Ridge on Friday and it was super dusty and blown out. Hoping to get out again tomorrow.

[Huskier]

Tiger yesterday was a sloppy mess in places but mostly ok. Close encounters though, that thing needs to dry out. Full on mud-surfing in places

[Dromond]

For wet roots and rocks I’ve become convinced it’s all about compound. I use 3C maxxTerra DHF/DHR in slippery conditions. I haven’t tried maxxGrip on the front but hear it rolls slow. I don’t ride clay much and haven’t used spike tires - DHF is one of the most common tires here in western WA and I think it’s good to great in the wet. You do have to commit in corners but the grip is definitive with that open channel. Spikes must be awesome in soft loam but don’t they squirm on hard roots/rocks?

I hear Assegai is the shit for dry/dusty - haven’t heard so many raves for them in wet conditions…

[ridinshockgun]

I hear Assegai is the shit for dry/dusty - haven’t heard so many raves for them in wet conditions…

Assegai's are good in the wet until it gets muddy, they pack out really bad in the mud I think because there isn't enough space in the tread to shed it.

The Magic Mary is a great winter tire in the PNW.