Say Goodbye to Tax-free Internet Purchases

[RootSkier]

If anyone needs any goods shipped to MT *******FOR USE IN MT********* (where we have no sales tax) please let me know, I will only charge a fraction of the sales tax you'd otherwise pay, plus a very modest storage fee.

[RootSkier]

Just have your family foundation make all purchases and avoid all taxation.

Otherwise known as the Ryan Zinke method.

[Timberridge]

If anyone needs any goods shipped to MT *******FOR USE IN MT********* (where we have no sales tax) please let me know, I will only charge a fraction of the sales tax you'd otherwise pay, plus a very modest storage fee.

Attn: Hugh's Mom?

You do know this site is monitored by the IRS, and now by the Chinese Ministry of State?

[hutash]

Just have your family foundation make all purchases and avoid all taxation.

Should I have my wife run it?

[MontuckyFried]

There are something like 13000 different tax districts in the country, each with their own city, county, resort and other various local stuff that is going to be pretty much impossible for anyone but Amazon and Walmart to handle accounting wise.

Precisely the very point in this. Every local taxing authority likes this because money, and every giant big business likes this because it helps them continue to monopolize every corner of commerce like Amazon. As a small business, I don't care if quickbooks could technically do it, I simply do not have time for yet another layer of complexity. Making sure I'm compliant with just my local, county, and state taxing authorities is already a big enough of a pain as it is. But when you have an entire building's worth of accountants and the best software on the planet, then psssh. No big deal, right?

I miss the good old days of the internet when the playing field was far more level.

[GeezerSteve]

State/local tax software or services are pretty cheap for small internet retailers, as cheap as $20/mo. for <1,000 transactions. In the wake of this SCOTUS holding and the resultant certainty that comes along with it, state/local tax software/services will likely become even more competitive and therefore cheaper. It's as simple as plugging in the zip code of the buyer, which happens automatically during the ordering process. There are no level playing fields for lots of reasons, but calculating, assessing and collecting state/local taxation issues isn't one of them.

[adrenalated]

Collecting the correct sales tax is not that complicated. Doing all the paperwork and forms to actually remit said sales tax to all the appropriate agencies is a pain in the ass. I'm not aware of any software that automates this currently, but as Danno said, it seems likely that it will be developed.

[SJG]

I can't see how an outside state can "make" a business outside their jurisdiction comply with anything. Their beef is with the resident within their boundaries, not the business outside it.

The only way I see it working is if they give a cut of the collection to the business, to offset the cost of all the collections, distributions, and administration (paperwork).

[GeezerSteve]

Collecting the correct sales tax is not that complicated. Doing all the paperwork and forms to actually remit said sales tax to all the appropriate agencies is a pain in the ass. I'm not aware of any software that automates this currently. . . .

Several companies currently do that for a reasonable fee, e.g., Paychex/Vertex. More competition will likely emerge after this holding. Other companies offer complete payment/collection/sales tax services for small internet retailers for a higher, although still reasonable, fee.

[GeezerSteve]

I can't see how an outside state can "make" a business outside their jurisdiction comply with anything. Their beef is with the resident within their boundaries, not the business outside it.

The only way I see it working is if they give a cut of the collection to the business, to offset the cost of all the collections, distributions, and administration (paperwork).

Collection agency is the current prevailing model. It works, and will likely get streamlined, more efficient and more effective after this holding. States have a strong incentive to work with each other on this.

[Meadow Skipper]

Hmm, Amazon has been collecting some sales tax from me for a while now. It’s still better than going to Walmart or Target.

[iceman]

Does this apply to state taxes only, or local, city and county taxes?

There are something like 13000 different tax districts in the country, each with their own city, county, resort and other various local stuff that is going to be pretty much impossible for anyone but Amazon and Walmart to handle accounting wise.

Complete bullshit, this was easily possible 30 years ago, I know it for a fact. Computers, man. They can do shit.

The sellers cry "it's toooooo commmplicaaated" because they don't want to lose their competitive advantage. That's it that's all.

[Groomer Gambler]

Is it just me or does it seem like the internet has generally gotten shattier lately? Way more ads these days and autoplay videos, webpages seem to load a little slower, constant bombardment when you go on Instagram, etc. and see a related ad show up a few mins after randomly browsing on another site. Ya I know too much p0rn...

[AdironRider]

Looks like most states are going to not bother unless you sell 100k in a given state. I think that's relatively fair if that is how it plays out in practice.

Again, it is not the collecting, it is the remitting. Anyone who has actually done this knows this reality. A computer can't register you with every county, city and local jurisdiction within the state. A good portion? Probably, but just an example, out here I had to register, by phone, with the state of Wyoming. This was after having to manually fill out this form and mail it in.

https://0ebaeb71-a-84cef9ff-s-sites....attredirects=0

Multiply that out time wise. I actually have now that I travel around to art shows. I'll be remitting to 12 different states this year. Don't forget the fees on top of this time. 60 bucks for Wyoming. I've paid up to 150 bucks for a sales tax license. Couple shows I had to pay an additional 30-50 for a temp permit in the given city I'm at. And so on and so forth.

The devil is in the details. Again, I support this, but without reasonable protections this is swinging the pendulum towards big business more than helping out local brick and mortar (who only have to do this for one jurisdiction).

For example, I guarantee you this only helps Amazon more. Over 50% of their business is done through third party retailers already. Do you think Brittney's jewelry, or Bob's Discount Electronics is going to jump through those hoops or just say fuck it and put their shit on Amazon for a 10-30% commission depending on their program?

Lots of other small businesses will just say fuck it to online sales entirely.

Just watch, the unintended consequences of this are going to be large. Will some people shop locally more? Definitely. Will more people just end up at Amazon buying shit, most likely.

[AdironRider]

Is it just me or does it seem like the internet has generally gotten shattier lately? Way more ads these days and autoplay videos, webpages seem to load a little slower, constant bombardment when you go on Instagram, etc. and see a related ad show up a few mins after randomly browsing on another site. Ya I know too much p0rn...

There was an interesting article that I now can't find that basically compared the same sites load times between the US and Europe and the effects of their recent internet legislation (of multiple forms). It basically boiled down to something like pages loaded in some instances 1000% faster due to the lack of ads and bloat you find on US sites.

[hutash]

People are making this seem like some huge, new unknown. Guess what, it isn't. The majority of big internet companies are already doing this. Most of the big outdoor retailers have been collecting CA sales tax for years, and seem to manage to make a profit just fine.

[PNWbrit]

their recent internet legislation (of multiple forms).

Yay for regulations!

[Todds]

AdironRider is right. It is about the remitting hassle and the associated fees. When I had my small business I had to include a processing fee (I think it was $25) along with the taxes when I remitted them. Those fees are going to add up fast for a small retailer that ships to lots of states and could exceed the taxes collected. It will really suck if there were 13000 separate locations. Small shops are going to need someone to process the payments. It might be Amazon, another big player or maybe the credit card processors. This will be a big win for Amazon and the other big players.

[shroom]

i thought amazon had the unfair advantage before? i wish everyone would make up their mind so i can have a clear understanding of whether or not i should hate them or the regulation that is passed.

[neufox47]

There was an interesting article that I now can't find that basically compared the same sites load times between the US and Europe and the effects of their recent internet legislation (of multiple forms). It basically boiled down to something like pages loaded in some instances 1000% faster due to the lack of ads and bloat you find on US sites.

Thanks Obama.

[neufox47]

There was an interesting article that I now can't find that basically compared the same sites load times between the US and Europe and the effects of their recent internet legislation (of multiple forms). It basically boiled down to something like pages loaded in some instances 1000% faster due to the lack of ads and bloat you find on US sites.

Thanks Obama.

This loop hole never should have made it past Y2K.

I haven’t found anything addressing the municipality question. Any of you JD, CPAS with a specialty in taxes care to weigh in?

[old goat]

Have you ever had to remit sales taxes before? Filed the paperwork. Registered in all of those districts. Its not the math that is the problem here.

I actually support this level playing field, it is probably 90% of why the internet is killing local retail, which I would rather support.

However, this could have the unintended effect of just killing small retail businesses with paperwork.

I wonder how much business small retailers do online. For example, Start Haus, a ski shop in Truckee with a web site where you can order stuff.


Seems to me if a store is doing enough business to make it worth their while they'll figure out the remittance and if they don't they'll drop the online sales. Every time somebody buys online someone from a small shop someone has to box that order and do the online paperwork to mail it out, seems like one more simple step to pay the sales tax to the state at the same time online, but as you guessed I have no experience in retail so I am willing to accept that I'm full of shit.

How do b and m stores handle local sales tax now? do they write separate checks to the town and to the state or does the state collect the money and dole it out to the local taxing districts. My property tax goes to the county, which doles it out to the town and half a dozen other districts.

My guess is that small retailers will charge the sales tax for online purchases and just keep the money, assuming they'll never get caught by a state halfway across the country and that even if the state noticed it wouldn't be worth its while to try and collect.

Anyway, all this is soon to be moot. According to one of the articles someone posted on the bitcoin thread, the amount of traffic generated by cryptocurrencies is going to shut down the internet, if we don't have a nationwide blackout first.

[SJG]

LMAO @ the State who charges companies to give them collected monies!

[TBS]

You clowns whining about the hassle of remitting sales/use tax need to look at this
https://www.avalara.com/us/en/produc...d-use-tax.html

Web based. Bolts up to virtually every accounting software package with little effort. Auto computes taxes for various items on customer invoices. They take care of the monthly/quarterly/annual reporting/remittances to all jurisdictions. Fees are cheap. Easy fuckin peasy. Just make sure you keep enough cash on hand to pay the periodic obligations.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Sales tax really seems like some regressive bullshit to me after years of living in MT (and even before that, buying things online). And yeah, different counties around NY and NJ have different taxes just to add a level of confusion. I seem to remember shopping in Rockland county being marginally cheaper than Westchester county.
It was also really nice when starting my own business and registering with wholesalers not having to worry about that shit. Much simpler/easier.