Palisade gets its own Enchilada!

[SKIP IN7RO]

Vibes to the friends and family to the dead mountain biker, but I think people can be self-reliant and we don't need to drop water/food/supplies for people along a trail especially one that short. What happened to leave no trace? What happens when you plan for water to be at a "cache" and its empty? Just plan better.

Yeah, I sorta cared yesterday when I commented, but today, I couldn't care less about the dehydrated dead dude or that trail.

[Name Redacted]

I still don’t get how one would carry 10 liters of water on that ride or any ride.

[toast2266]

I still don’t get how one would carry 10 liters of water on that ride or any ride.

With a trailer, obviously. (Although not a bob trailer. Too tippy).

[summit]

I've seen dedicated desert riders with custom storage bags/reservoirs for their front triangle that held gallons.

[brutah]

I've seen dedicated desert riders with custom storage bags/reservoirs for their front triangle that held gallons.

for sure. With the increased popularity of bike packing, there are a lot of frame/handlebar options that one could then put in a soft water reservoir with or without a hose to drink from it.

10 liters certainly seems like overkill for a 32-mile ride, but I haven't taken the plunge myself to feel like I can comment on the difficulty of the trail. Seems like people figure it out on much longer rides in the desert though.

[snowaddict91]

I did the full plunge last July and ran out of water, I had 4 liters with me. If I did it again I would probably bring a filter, but there is no water available on the lower, hotter part.

Its not practical to have a water cache where it would be useful, as there is no road access on the lower portions AFAIK.

Part of the problem when I did it was that the earliest shuttle didn't leave Palisade till after 8. It looks like there is a 7 am shuttle now, but they should be doing a 5:30 or 6 am one IMO. I mentioned that to the shuttle co but they didn't seem too receptive. It was 94F when we finished.

I couldn't imagine carrying 2.5 gallons on a bike in that kind of terrain and exposure. I also wouldn't do the whole trail again unless its in the fall. We did know what we were getting into heat wise FWIW, but riding that kind of exposure for miles on end as fatigue sets in just wasn't very fun. Especially considering the most challenging terrain is at the end. I nearly ended myself when I put my bars into the side of the cliff on the final mile.

Overall, if I want to do a big shuttle ride I'd just go to Moab, CB, or Monarch and skip the plunge completely.

[Dantheman]

10 liters certainly seems like overkill for a 32-mile ride, but I haven't taken the plunge myself to feel like I can comment on the difficulty of the trail.

10 L is clearly an impractical suggestion, but by all accounts it's a taxing ride with lots of grade reversals, especially on the lower half where it's hottest. If you go into it thinking you're just going to ride downhill for 32 miles you could definitely get into trouble.

[snowaddict91]

10 L is clearly an impractical suggestion, but by all accounts it's a taxing ride with lots of grade reversals, especially on the lower half where it's hottest. If you go into it thinking you're just going to ride downhill for 32 miles you could definitely get into trouble.

I was prepared for a suffer fest and still got my ass kicked. I'm not claiming to be super fit but I was in pretty good riding shape at that time.

[adrenalated]

Overall, if I want to do a big shuttle ride I'd just go to Moab, CB, or Monarch and skip the plunge completely.

This is pretty much the review I've gotten from everyone that's ridden the Plunge. I'm not in any hurry to go do it.

[Boissal]

Shit, dying of dehydration on a ride, what a sad story.
Burning through 4L on that short a ride is impressive, not unexpected given the temps in that zone but still, that's a lot of water to go through. Shuttling makes hauling 10L possible but desirable? Can't imagine that much shit on my back riding technical terrain, or any kind of terrain for that matter.

Couple years ago I did a 50 miler around Park City in the fall and water management was pretty damn tough. 3L camelback + 2 water bottles and I barely made it to the only running creek on the whole loop without drying out. Can't really call 50 miles an extreme distance, it was late season in reasonable temps. Made me really appreciate the water situation whole riding in the Alps. There's a fountain every mile and when you get into the boonies a creek every 10 minutes. Riding with a filter and a single water bottle and never having to worry is pretty damn sweet.

[skaredshtles]

I did the full plunge last July and ran out of water, I had 4 liters with me. If I did it again I would probably bring a filter, but there is no water available on the lower, hotter part.

Its not practical to have a water cache where it would be useful, as there is no road access on the lower portions AFAIK.

Part of the problem when I did it was that the earliest shuttle didn't leave Palisade till after 8. It looks like there is a 7 am shuttle now, but they should be doing a 5:30 or 6 am one IMO. I mentioned that to the shuttle co but they didn't seem too receptive. It was 94F when we finished.

I couldn't imagine carrying 2.5 gallons on a bike in that kind of terrain and exposure. I also wouldn't do the whole trail again unless its in the fall. We did know what we were getting into heat wise FWIW, but riding that kind of exposure for miles on end as fatigue sets in just wasn't very fun. Especially considering the most challenging terrain is at the end. I nearly ended myself when I put my bars into the side of the cliff on the final mile.

Overall, if I want to do a big shuttle ride I'd just go to Moab, CB, or Monarch and skip the plunge completely.

Quadfecta.

[goldenboy]

I did the full plunge last July and ran out of water, I had 4 liters with me. If I did it again I would probably bring a filter, but there is no water available on the lower, hotter part.

Its not practical to have a water cache where it would be useful, as there is no road access on the lower portions AFAIK.

Part of the problem when I did it was that the earliest shuttle didn't leave Palisade till after 8. It looks like there is a 7 am shuttle now, but they should be doing a 5:30 or 6 am one IMO. I mentioned that to the shuttle co but they didn't seem too receptive. It was 94F when we finished.

I couldn't imagine carrying 2.5 gallons on a bike in that kind of terrain and exposure. I also wouldn't do the whole trail again unless its in the fall. We did know what we were getting into heat wise FWIW, but riding that kind of exposure for miles on end as fatigue sets in just wasn't very fun. Especially considering the most challenging terrain is at the end. I nearly ended myself when I put my bars into the side of the cliff on the final mile.

Overall, if I want to do a big shuttle ride I'd just go to Moab, CB, or Monarch and skip the plunge completely.

CB has shuttle rides?

It's a bummer that this trail has had such mixed reviews (at best). I want to do it, some day, but definitely not until fall on a relatively cool day. Sounds like it kicks people's ass on the regular.

[MakersTeleMark]

I didn't think the 1st (?) death on this trail would come from dehydration.

[snowaddict91]

I didn't think the 1st (?) death on this trail would come from dehydration.

I didn't either. Not what I was expecting to read when I saw it on FB.

[evdog]

I rode it last summer... mid August? Maybe 90f for a high that day. Didn't think the exposure was as bad as others have said. But I can see people getting in trouble from exertion and dehydration. For a 32 mi ride it was pretty taxing. It isn't the length or climbing but the constant small punchy climbs like smmokan mentioned.

Keep in mind as soon as there is a shuttle and some publicity everyone and their grandma will be out there, with wildly varying levels of skill, fitness and acclimation. If you're used to riding in high temps, doimg backcountry rides, or doing big rides in general where you have to be self sufficient Palisade shouldn't be a big deal. There is a stream a few miles down from the last road crossing that should flow year round. That's maybe 15 miles from the end. If you have a filter you should be able to camel up (drink up and refill). Lots of riders seem to have no concept of water filters or being self sufficient on rides. Wonder if the shuttle companies give out pre safety instructions? I had to self shuttle since no one was running yet last yr. If I were to do it again I'd start late morning and drop down lower as things were starting to cool off. Even with an hour or two earlier start you're still dropping down into the hottest part of the day.

[MakersTeleMark]

A sawyer squeeze weighs almost nothing if there is a legit water source of any kind. I haven't ridden it and have no desire, but maybe that could become part of the normal protocol amongst those searching for beta. A death will surely raise eyebrows in the cycling community, especially when 3 come on the scene all out too. That has got to be a brain fuck watching someone die, and the one thing they need, you can't provide. Vibes.

[evdog]

Yup a filter like the squeeze or katadyn d-free is super light. I pack one on all backcountry rides as easy insurance. And it lets me carry less water throughout the ride in a lot of cases.

The Plunge is actually a really cool ride I thought. Don't let some negative comments turn you away. A lot of people go in thinking "plunge" and "shuttle" and expect it will be easy. But it isn't. That said it's a cool ride as it goes through a bunch of different terrain types, has awesome views and some good tech all in one ride. I'll definitely do it again when I have the chance. It's actually a good thing it's getting mixed reviews as it won't get torn up so bad like some other popular shuttleable rides have been.

[MakersTeleMark]

Yup a filter like the squeeze or katadyn d-free is super light. I pack one on all backcountry rides as easy insurance. And it lets me carry less water throughout the ride in a lot of cases.

The Plunge is actually a really cool ride I thought. Don't let some negative comments turn you away. A lot of people go in thinking "plunge" and "shuttle" and expect it will be easy. But it isn't. That said it's a cool ride as it goes through a bunch of different terrain types, has awesome views and some good tech all in one ride. I'll definitely do it again when I have the chance. It's actually a good thing it's getting mixed reviews as it won't get torn up so bad like some other popular shuttleable rides have been.

I've watched video's of the whole thing, and it seems like a dusty mind fuck. It's super close to me, but, I've been out of the serious game for awhile, and I'll leave it for a few years and see how it plays out.

[zion zig zag]

A filter wouldn’t have helped this guy though, right? Like if he had known there was filterable water around, he would’ve just drank it. So his demise was lack of knowledge and plan.


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[Name Redacted]

A filter wouldn’t have helped this guy though, right? Like if he had known there was filterable water around, he would’ve just drank it. So his demise was lack of knowledge and plan.


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Yeah, at this point we know what he did wrong. But if he had filtered water at the last available source and filled his reserves, maybe he could have had water further down the trail, and thus preventing his death. Hopefully his story can be used as a lesson to other people doing this ride.

Riding in weather over 90ºF is something I generally avoid anyway. But I am headed out on a 7 day hut trip across this same region in the middle of summer and will definitely be bringing some kind of lightweight water filter and assessing my options for water as I go.

[evdog]

The first half of the trail shouldn't put any rider in a bad spot. It's not that difficult - not a ton of climbing and shade if you need it. But a lot of riders aren't in great shape but good enough to feel fine after the top but maybe can't handle much more. Then the hard part gets thrown at them.

Between the two road crossings is where it gets harder with a technical switchback descent that will give lots of riders fits and then a couple miles of short techy punchy climbs and descents. That's mostly under shade at least. Beyond the last road crossing there's a fast flowy descent that takes you down to that final reliable stream. I could see riders getting pulled into false sense of security there. If the rest of the trail was like that then the ride would be over pretty quick. But that's actually where all the climbs begin and where there is no more shade.

A filter wouldn't have helped the riders anywhere below that last stream crossing since there are no other water sources. But if they had a filter they could have at least filled up there with hopefully a better end result.

I've done plenty of bikepacking in 90ish degree weather. Have more flexibility then obviously since I'm prepared to be out overnight, but will often stop and rest in the shade for a while and filter/chug a couple bottles of water in addition to refilling my pack.

[skaredshtles]

Yup a filter like the squeeze or katadyn d-free is super light. I pack one on all backcountry rides as easy insurance. And it lets me carry less water throughout the ride in a lot of cases.

Yep - if I'm doing a long ride and I know there will be regular water sources I'll only carry a single bottle of water. It also give me an *excellent* excuse to take a nice long break when it's time to refill the bottle.

[Roxtar]

Couple questions:
Most of the complaints from those who rode it in 2021 were about the looseness. To those riding it this year, has it bedded in any better or is it still a sand pit?
How late in the year should be reasonably safe to avoid both heat and snow/mud?
Oh, and one more; how long (time wise) should you expect it to take? Assume advanced/expert level technical riders with OK climbing chops.

[simple]

It will be best ridden in September to October. After October we get snow.

I just rode the top section on the Mesa yesterday. Recent rain has been nice and we had some cooler weather. That is pretty much done for here in the summer.

[evdog]

Couple questions:
Most of the complaints from those who rode it in 2021 were about the looseness. To those riding it this year, has it bedded in any better or is it still a sand pit?
How late in the year should be reasonably safe to avoid both heat and snow/mud?
Oh, and one more; how long (time wise) should you expect it to take? Assume advanced/expert level technical riders with OK climbing chops.

I rode it August last year, so a few months after it opened. I didn't think looseness was really an issue. It was sandy in a few spots but not bad. Definitely not a sand pit, and didn't think loose trail edges were an issue. If anything it could get worse with more traffic if it gets blown out. Didn't think exposure was much of an issue either except for a couple spots. But I'm used to riding exposed technical trails. What I think will cause the most issue for some riders aside from the frequent short climbs is the rockyness of the trail. You're constantly going over or around rocks poking out of the tread. Those will only "grow" as the trail gets worn in.

Are you used to riding in heat, and doing big rides? If so don't let mid summer heat at the bottom stop you. Just pick your days when it isn't extreme - like say high 80's to 90 vs 100+. It was 90F the day I did it. I started 9am, finished 3pm. Bring a filter and camel up at the last water crossing. And maybe start mid day rather than early so you're dropping down when temps drop rather than into the heat of the day. Sept/Oct will work too but it will start to get cold up top mornings. If your typical ride is 15 miles I'd wait for cooler temps.

The ride took me just under 6 hours total, with 5 hrs moving time. I'm not fast, but good on technical terrain. I pretty consistently average 5mph on most rides. Stats were 31.5 mi, +1120/-6,980ft (fwiw I skipped the lowest section and transferred to Palisade Rim due to reported storm damage down low).

TR from my ride in the following post....