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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Back in Seattle
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    1,259
    I would be interested in a light layup 191 normal or fat for winter touring if the price was reasonable and they came in at 7-8lbs for the pair.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    2,023
    I'd be in for a 191 Lhasa fat.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    SW CO
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    5,588
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    I find it quote difficult to understand what people mean when they say they want carbon.
    There's a hudge differentiation between carbon skis and carbon/glass hybrids.
    Referring to skis as carbon is often a mislabeled interpretation a hybrid layup.
    People don't seem to comprehend the cost and labor pure carbon skis require.

    Keith can do the same hybrid layups he does on his skis.
    He ain't into pure carbon and I can't blame him a bit.
    Wanting cheap pure carbon skis is self negating.
    It's like wanting Lambos for Kia prices.
    Hybrid glass/carbon is pretty easy.
    Pure carbon not.
    Indeed. It gets really confusing when people say "carbon" these days.

    But frankly, I don't know enough about ski design to understand the difference in feel/dampness and weight between a full carbon ski with, say, an ash or maple core versus a hybrid carbon-glass layup with a primarily paulownia core. What are the real advantages of a full carbon ski these days? I can't say I've noticed a difference in performance between say the DPS Wailer 105 (full carbon) and the Blizzard ZeroG 108 (hybrid?).
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  4. #54
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    33,440
    It pretty much depends on how you ski and what weight you like, whether you're a carver or a skidder and what you want in hardpack performance. That means a carbon layup is synergistic with the core, as you mentioned. A lighter core might not be as damp as a heavier core but will certainly be light for skinning. The performance in powder won't be considered as crucial in comparison to the chatter/dampness on rough frozen. The ideal, imho, is tuning the core to the carbon so the ski flexes and the rebound doesn't rocket you up off the snow too much while having that good skin weight and enough dampness to make frozen crap bearable and manageable.

    It's hard, if not impossible, to get optimum characteristics for all the variable performance characteristics. Shit, people are still shooting for that in every layup and shape out there. It's about finding the ski that performs for you. Carbon is a mutherfukker to do in wet layup. I kick myself in the ass for not having used prepreg carbon for the consistency in results when pressing and the added assurance that there will be no air voids in the carbon fiber. Those voids are usually what cause a carbon ski to break. This is why the hybrid layup can have good weight while being more durable and more damp with more easily predictable behavior in varied conditions. It's all about how the ski core works in conjunction with the composites, along with the shape, that gives a ski it's on snow performance characteristics.

    Overall, I think the 191 Fat was the most outstanding Lhasa for all around performance. The only mags I might recall getting reverse camber 191 Fats were whyturn and stuntcock. I'd like to get stuntcok to pipe up on what he thinks about them, just cause I've never asked. We heli-tested the 186s in Pemberton and have skied in Mammoth together, so I'd value his opinion greatly.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    383
    I wouldn't be in for one at least for a bit. You should though. My 191s (second pair) are going strong. So much fun. Unfairly stable for their weight, and quite agile.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Looking down
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    50,491
    Any thoughts on price targets?

  7. #57
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    33,440
    If we got 20 preorders, $850. If we got 30 or more preorders, $800.
    I recently bought back the very last pair of pure carbon 191s made on Vashon from detrusor for $1250.
    He hadn't mounted them and I wanted a quiver of my skis.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Gallatin County
    Posts
    1,556
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Any thoughts on price targets?
    Word around Big Sky is you terrorized the area on Lhasa Pows last season and now you are adding to your arsenal? BTW the plaque on "Benny's core shot rock" in Dakota hasn't been finished yet.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
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    22,431
    Quote Originally Posted by MTT View Post
    It would be interesting to see.

    I own 4 pair of active PMGear skis now, so short a fire or burglary I am not in the market for skis in the foreseeable future
    I owned 4 pair of PMGear skis, but they burned up in a fire, so I am in the market in the foreseeable future.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
    Posts
    13,234
    i could use another pair of kusalas
    i think i still haz your old #
    call me sometime
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    No longer Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    2,648
    Never been on a pair of Lhasas, but I’d be in line for a fat pow ski that weighs less than 8 lbs...


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,064
    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    i could use a pair of kusalas
    Me too---
    Seriously

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    shadow of HS butte
    Posts
    6,398
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Me too---
    Seriously
    #me2

    FIFY

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
    Posts
    3,163
    Splat. Are 99mm waisted bros with tip rocker at 179 an option in this preorder?
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Golden, Colorado
    Posts
    5,868

    Praxis Lhasa Pows?

    Quote Originally Posted by thefortrees View Post
    Never been on a pair of Lhasas, but I’d be in line for a fat pow ski that weighs less than 8 lbs...


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I think the pure carbon soft Kusalas were around 8.

    Great to see you still kickin out skis Pat! Still love my Kusalas long time.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Looking down
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talisman View Post
    Word around Big Sky is you terrorized the area on Lhasa Pows last season and now you are adding to your arsenal? BTW the plaque on "Benny's core shot rock" in Dakota hasn't been finished yet.
    Well, I don't actually "need" them, but....

  17. #67
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    33,440
    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Splat. Are 99mm waisted bros with tip rocker at 179 an option in this preorder?
    It's all about the number of preorders made. Right now the pressing could start on December 1 and Keith can do 20 pair a week. I'd love to see most of the bros made again by Praxis and shapes like the 179 and 183 Fat would be two I'd love to see done. Keith is a good dude and I wish I'd have had him make that last batch that we got screwed on that killed PM Gear. He's right up the road and we get along great.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    I think the pure carbon soft Kusalas were around 8.

    Great to see you still kickin out skis Pat! Still love my Kusalas long time.
    Lindahl - you still got those killer 191s I made for you? Those were beauties....

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,715
    I've never had a PM gear ski but they have looked interesting. I am certainly part of the problem as the cost of PM gear skis has always been higher than alternatives available to me. That is not to say that they are not good value of overpriced, simply that good skis have been available cheaply.

    So here is the questions. "What exactly is a PM Gear ski made by Praxis". Is it just a PM Gear shape with a Praxis construction or is it a PM Gear shape with a construction superior to what Praxis already produces?

    How honest is the ski industry about replicating the designs of other? Are there trademarks and patents for shapes?

    If the product being discussed here is "Splat gave us the molds for a Lhasa Fat and Praxis is making it with our standard construction options" I am not sure how much of a premium that is worth over regular Praxis pricing.

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    22,462
    What were the dims of the 187 Bro Fat, again? They seemed pretty all mountainy.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    In the shadow of the wasatch
    Posts
    4,116
    I have no duckets for preorder but 191 Lhasa fats have always given me the tingles in my naughty bits. I like the PM Gear topsheets and the light blue with brown detail or black with blue detail are gorgeous.

    And Fog Gogs questions are salient to the topic. It might be up there in previous post and I missed it
    Bunny Don't Surf

    Have you seen a one armed man around here?

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
    Posts
    5,845
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    I've never had a PM gear ski but they have looked interesting. I am certainly part of the problem as the cost of PM gear skis has always been higher than alternatives available to me. That is not to say that they are not good value of overpriced, simply that good skis have been available cheaply.

    So here is the questions. "What exactly is a PM Gear ski made by Praxis". Is it just a PM Gear shape with a Praxis construction or is it a PM Gear shape with a construction superior to what Praxis already produces?

    How honest is the ski industry about replicating the designs of other? Are there trademarks and patents for shapes?

    If the product being discussed here is "Splat gave us the molds for a Lhasa Fat and Praxis is making it with our standard construction options" I am not sure how much of a premium that is worth over regular Praxis pricing.
    From the sounds of it, $800-850 (per Splats early post) is pretty much in line with Praxis non-custom pricing. Based on that, I'm guess we're talking PM Gear molds, with Praxis construction. Probably add a hundro for carbon as per Praxis' usual.

    Praxis construction is pretty fucking rad on the ones I've had (Yetis and Protests). My Lhasa hybrids are great too.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    At the beach
    Posts
    19,069
    Yup, Praxis construction has always been pretty solid in my book. I haven't bought new skis in a few years, so I guess I can justify the expense, but like FG's comments, it is tough for me to pay "full retail" as I haven't done that forever.
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Looking down
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    50,491
    This is very good news. I am in a place where paying retail for a ski is not a sound financial move, because my quiver is in great shape, and just scored a pair of Mantras cheap, but, all I can say is, if anybody is considering new skis, think seriously about putting your money down. I adore my Llasha Pows on soft days.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Golden, Colorado
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    5,868
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Lindahl - you still got those killer 191s I made for you? Those were beauties....
    Hmm... I never had 191s. Just 186 extra stiff Kusalas. I still have both pairs, the blem black Tibet hybrids and those awesome lime green airplane pures with the blue metal flecks. Those pures are still my favorite pow ski and see a lot of days on snow.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    monument
    Posts
    6,910
    I think auvgeek had those stiff 191 Fats.
    In search of the elusive artic powder weasel ...

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