WTB: Budget Full Suspension Trail Bike for Mrs. LWS

[mtngirl79]

Don't put a new rider on a long travel bike... that's too much suspension to haul around.

Hardtail or no more than 140...

[TahoeJ]

Don't put a new rider on a long travel bike... that's too much suspension to haul around.

Hardtail or no more than 140...

Go with FS for sure (IMO) but I agree to not go too crazy on the amount of travel to start. 130 is plenty. As well as these 150 - 160 enduro style trail bikes pedal these days, they still don't climb nearly as well as something a touch more uphill oriented.

[mtngirl79]

If she just wants to ride along, full suspension will make it easier to go over stuff but if she really wants to learn to ride a hardtail will make her progress way faster, plus pedal easier.

[TahoeJ]

If she just wants to ride along, full suspension will make it easier to go over stuff but if she really wants to learn to ride a hardtail will make her progress way faster, plus pedal easier.

That’s an old myth about progression, if you ask me. The truth is, you choose different lines based on the bike you’re riding.

[californiagrown]

If she just wants to ride along, full suspension will make it easier to go over stuff but if she really wants to learn to ride a hardtail will make her progress way faster, plus pedal easier.

I disagree. Riding a HT is sketchy, uncomfortable, and will beat up your body. That is not conducive to someone getting hooked on biking and wanting to go out and improve. Saying that someone should learn on a HT is like saying folks should learn to ski on stiff, long skis with a long turn radius. Additionally, you dont learn how to push into turns, and how to use suspension to gain traction if you are on a HT. IMO, line choice is pretty easy to learn and apply, and available line choice is something that is dictated by whatever bike you are riding at the time.

[NW_SKIER]

That’s an old myth about progression, if you ask me. The truth is, you choose different lines based on the bike you’re riding.

I one hundred percent agree with you. My wife is on a 130 hardtail and she does not enjoy any kind of technical descent. She doesn't have the skill. I keep trying to convince her that a 140-150 full suspension is the way to go but she won't let me buy her one.

[El Chupacabra]

Whatever happens, make sure it’s her choice; it will be for the best.

This, a thousand times. Let her select her bike. If she doesn't know what she wants, go to the free demos in your area.

Lws said he's a bike Jong and Mrs Lws has a bottom of the barrel old hardtail. Selecting a long low slack blah blah blah enduro sled based on TGR feedback may not be at all what she wants.

[adrenalated]

IMO, line choice is pretty easy to learn and apply, and available line choice is something that is dictated by whatever bike you are riding at the time.

QFT. Riding a hardtail helps you learn lines that are appropriate for a hardtail. Riding a long travel slack bike helps you learn lines that are appropriate for a long travel slack bike.
Neither is wrong, more a matter of how you want to ride and what your local terrain is like.

[TAFKALVS]

It isn't. She wants a modern, slightly pedal biased/xc leaning trail bike. A 13 year old men's Gary Fischer isn't it.

But neither is an Enduro bike. The long low slack comment was purely sarcasm. She wants something the is less jaring and smoother to ride on multiuse mountain trails

[plugboots]

I don't know Leavenworth's wife, but there is no amount of FS that will make my wife ride downhill "fast". She climbs fastish, and does rolling single track great, but make it steep, and she rides the brake. She basically rides her mtn bike like a road bike. I ended up getting her a Ti hard tail, and I put 2.4 tires on it. She loves it. (This was after demoing a few FS bikes.)
Edit after reading his post above. Compliant modern HT, or lightweight 4" FS is what I'd get.

[TAFKALVS]

She has zero interest in speed, bike parks, bro, slack, air, etc.

[lifelinksplit]

Get the red one.

[Dantheman]

Selecting a long low slack blah blah blah enduro sled based on TGR feedback may not be at all what she wants.

Release/Clutch =/ enduro sled. It's only 130 mm in the rear, and was suggested primarily due to the fact that it's a screaming deal. There's a beggars-choosers dynamic at play when your budget is $1,000.

It isn't. She wants a modern, slightly pedal biased/xc leaning trail bike. A 13 year old men's Gary Fischer isn't it.

But neither is an Enduro bike. The long low slack comment was purely sarcasm. She wants something the is less jaring and smoother to ride on multiuse mountain trails

Not to sound like a dick, but this thread is starting to feel like a troll. WTB threads on here are a crapshoot under the best circumstances, let alone for what you're asking for. Have you even looked at Pinkbike? Here's every small-frame XC/AM bike on Pinkbike listed between $500-1500: https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/lis...2&wheelsize=11

You'll notice, most of them are hardtails. There are a few potential candidates, though.

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2391034/
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2369458/
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2360765/
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2391123/
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2247309/

Of course, you'll have to pay to ship any of them, and personally I wouldn't buy a complete bike off PB that I couldn't inspect in person, but that's your choice to make. You should probably just go to your nearest Giant or Specialized dealer and buy her a Stance, Stumpjumper ST, or Camber. The Stumpy comes in purple.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-stance-2019
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/wo...=253559-154980
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/wo...=239809-129223

[TAFKALVS]

If trying to learn (with a hint of TGR sacasm) is trolling, I'm in trouble I guess. I didn't expect this thread to have so much info. It's been helpful.

I also am painted by the fact that I bought a pretty dang solid/modernish 160mm full suspension used bike for $1100 from a maggot recently. Was hopeful that perhaps a deal like that existed for my lady. Did consider detrusers yeti frame but a build up seems like the wrong thing for a bike jong at this moment. Seeing as the bikes you listed about are an MSRP of $1500 - $1800, I really don't think its unreasonable to get something used/3-4 years old and 30-35% below MSRP.

And yes, Pinkbike. There's a bike locally we're somewhat interested in (Speci Camber) but still want to be slow on this stuff and get the right thing. 29'er might not be best for her.

Bikes are massively overpriced.

It might be easy for some dentists to throw down $1800 - $2500 (plus shipping and tax) on a "cheap" bike but it's not for me. To me that actually seems very expensive, seeing as I can buy a new dirt bike with far more moving parts for a little more than that. From my perspective, Mountain Bikes are literally the worst value outdoor product you can buy. Massively overpriced, zero effort to make budget components worth buying and everyone just goes "well that's the price, so I guess that's what I'll pay." If you talk about buying a sub-$2000 bike, everyone scoffs and says "well the frame is okay, but you really need to upgrade to the x,y,z shifter and the chainring is really pretty outdated, and the brakes are crap. You'll want to upgrade all of it."

Why does a fork cost over $1000? The Float 36 has been the same product more or less for the last 10 years. It's 2 aluminum pistons that have air on 1 side and oil on the other. Not that complicated. Does the average mountain bike buyer not give a shit about price?

[RootSkier]

You're not wrong but this is why multiple people are repeatedly suggesting the DB bikes--because they are BY FAR the best value out there. Nothing else even comes close for the price.

[doebedoe]

Just someone who rides a Release a few times a week; it is not an enduro sled.

[sethschmautz]

I agree with the comments regarding the DB bikes. I would also consider an original Santa Cruz Tallboy. I have really enjoyed this bike personally and probably spans the gap between more modern Geo and budget. This is the bike that I've been looking at for my own wife who loves to ride and is not aggressive.

The camber is also on my list.

Seth

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app

[Dantheman]

I also am painted by the fact that I bought a pretty dang solid/modernish 160mm full suspension used bike for $1100 from a maggot recently. Was hopeful that perhaps a deal like that existed for my lady. Did consider detrusers yeti frame but a build up seems like the wrong thing for a bike jong at this moment. Seeing as the bikes you listed about are an MSRP of $1500 - $1800, I really don't think its unreasonable to get something used/3-4 years old and 30-35% below MSRP.

What was the bike you bought? No matter what it was, you got a hell of a deal. No, $1200 isn't an unreasonable price for a 3-4 y.o. Stance/Camber/etc. You're just not likely to find one here, and even in a larger marketplace like PB finding one locally, in her size, that isn't clapped out is a bit of a tall order. You can wade into the timesuck and general PITA that used bike shopping generally is, or you can pay more for the convenience and surety of buying new. Pick your poison.

And yes, Pinkbike. There's a bike locally we're somewhat interested in (Speci Camber) but still want to be slow on this stuff and get the right thing. 29'er might not be best for her.

Camber comes in 27.5 and 29 flavors.

Bikes are massively overpriced.

It might be easy for some dentists to throw down $1800 - $2500 (plus shipping and tax) on a "cheap" bike but it's not for me. To me that actually seems very expensive, seeing as I can buy a new dirt bike with far more moving parts for a little more than that. From my perspective, Mountain Bikes are literally the worst value outdoor product you can buy. Massively overpriced, zero effort to make budget components worth buying and everyone just goes "well that's the price, so I guess that's what I'll pay." If you talk about buying a sub-$2000 bike, everyone scoffs and says "well the frame is okay, but you really need to upgrade to the x,y,z shifter and the chainring is really pretty outdated, and the brakes are crap. You'll want to upgrade all of it."

Well, none of us are happy about the price of bikes these days, but it's the reality of the market. I'd love to buy a 2 y.o. Tacoma with 20k miles for $10k, but that's not happening either.

There are absolutely great budget options out there. That Camber I linked to is $1650 MSRP, likely less at a shop, and they'll probably tune it up free for a year. Budget-level components are fantastic these days. You can get a SLX derailleur for <$50 that works better than XTR did ten years ago.

RE: Dirt bikes:
-There's a saying, "Light, strong, cheap...pick two." They go with the latter two.
-Economies of scale. The dirt bike market dwarfs the MTB market, which drives down costs.
-The comparison doesn't hold up when when you actually compare apples-apples. The dirtbike equivalent of a $6k superbike (i.e., Bronson CC XO1, SB6, etc.) retails for $10-15k according to people I know who ride MTB and moto.

Why does a fork cost over $1000? The Float 36 has been the same product more or less for the last 10 years. It's 2 aluminum pistons that have air on 1 side and oil on the other. Not that complicated. Does the average mountain bike buyer not give a shit about price?

Go look at a cut sheet for a modern high performance air fork. There's a massive amount of engineering and precision manufacturing in there. If you think suspension hasn't improved in the last ten years, you're flat wrong, and it was expensive back then, too.

[mtngirl79]

That’s an old myth about progression, if you ask me. The truth is, you choose different lines based on the bike you’re riding.

I disagree. Riding a HT is sketchy, uncomfortable, and will beat up your body. That is not conducive to someone getting hooked on biking and wanting to go out and improve. Saying that someone should learn on a HT is like saying folks should learn to ski on stiff, long skis with a long turn radius. Additionally, you dont learn how to push into turns, and how to use suspension to gain traction if you are on a HT. IMO, line choice is pretty easy to learn and apply, and available line choice is something that is dictated by whatever bike you are riding at the time.

I one hundred percent agree with you. My wife is on a 130 hardtail and she does not enjoy any kind of technical descent. She doesn't have the skill. I keep trying to convince her that a 140-150 full suspension is the way to go but she won't let me buy her one.

I 100% agree with you that the more difficult the terrain, the easier it will be with suspension, and more suspension as it becomes more difficult.

The reason riding a hardtail helps you learn is because there is no rear suspension to eat up any bumps, and thus, you have to use your legs as your suspension. If you know how to do that, then the amount of suspension you have at your disposal is much more than what is on your bike.

Another reason riding a hardtail helps you learn is because when you pressure your bike for turns, when you pump, when you load your bike to do wheel lifts, when you shift your weight to do a wheelie or a manual, on a full suspension bike you have to work through all your suspension before you get your bike to do what you want it to. On a hardtail you can get the movement and the feel a lot easier because you have more direct feedback.

If a person wants to jump on a bike and go fast down hard terrain without putting in the time, by all means, a long travel big old bike is the way to go, but if another person were to put the same amount of time on a hard tail learning the actual skills before getting on the big bike, if the talent is equal, the one on the hardtail is going to be a better rider.

Suspension helps you out. It lets you cut corners. It lets you hang off the back of your bike and land jumps and drops unbalanced. It cleans up your mistakes.

Line choice doesn't really change based on the bike you are on very often. The fastest line is usually the smoothest/straightest line. More suspension allows you to choose harder lines, or bigger drops, sure. It also allows you just to plow through things rather than having to put your tires exactly where they need to be or you're fucked... so later on when you get in over your head you have that skill.

As for beating up your body.. sure its easier to ride a full suspension bike, but I'm a middle aged fat women and I ride a hardtail on the Northshore... and its fun. Really fun.

All that said, most of us here ride bikes for fun, and a lot of people would rather just hop right to the full suspension bike and that's ok. Whoever is having the most fun is winning.

The main reason I suggest thinking about a hardtail for the OPs wife is because the budget is small, and she likes to pedal... if you are pedaling up easy trails and slowly surviving anything technical, IMO is likely that you would enjoy a nice, modern hardtail with a really nice fork more than an older, cheaper, clapped out full squish bike.

Another option would be plus tires. They are a little bit more work to pedal up, but add a ton of stability and traction. Again, its all trade offs.

Honestly, before buying new bikes, if the wives really do want to ride mountain bikes, I would suggest a clinic or lessons. Most women learn this type of thing differently than men, and learning correct body position, how to brake correctly, how to not be afraid of the front brake can make a huge difference in confidence...

[TahoeJ]

Line choice doesn't really change based on the bike you are on very often. The fastest line is usually the smoothest/straightest line.

I completely disagree. At least for all of the trails I ride around Tahoe and NorCal. There are very efficient lines that I simply wouldn't dare to hit on a hardtail... and a lot of them.

[Sirshredalot]

I completely disagree. At least for all of the trails I ride around Tahoe and NorCal. There are very efficient lines that I simply wouldn't dare to hit on a hardtail... and a lot of them.

You can flog a hard tail down that shit if you focus your chi, stay loose, and use some finesse. Big tires and wheels help.

[NW_SKIER]

Yeah! Quit being such a pussy.

[Dantheman]

You can flog a hard tail down that shit if you focus your chi, stay loose, and use some finesse. Big tires and wheels help.

Last year some friends let me borrow their Salsa El Mariachi with non-burly Stans rims while I was waiting on a frame warranty. Before we started up I double-checked that they were cool with this plan, because I'm kinda known for breaking stuff. The wheels were still mostly round at the bottom of Spiro.

I kept it for a few weeks, and I've wanted a Honzo/Stache/Yelli ever since. Hardtails can be a riot.

[SchralphMacchio]

Hey LWS, a lot of thrunting in this thread but MG79 speaks the troof on this topic.

Honestly, before buying new bikes, if the wives really do want to ride mountain bikes, I would suggest a clinic or lessons. Most women learn this type of thing differently than men, and learning correct body position, how to brake correctly, how to not be afraid of the front brake can make a huge difference in confidence...

Check this out, if you can clear your schedule, I'd get on the Waitlist for the Trek Womens Dirt Series 2-day clinics at Hood River in July (it will be hot with blown out conditions but don't fret, the camp is about getting women comfy on a bike, not getting the best flow down Post Canyon). If you can make the drive, the other clinics besides Hood River (Park City, Mammoth, Whistler) are well worth the drive. The clinics often run out of a shop with discount rates for bike demo and lift service (no lift service in Hood River though) as add-ons to the clinics.
http://www.dirtseries.com/schedule/

My wife did a 2-day clinic with Trek WDS in Whistler last year and the before/after was night and day. She did one full day riding valley trails and one full day doing skills inbounds at the park. After seeing how much more comfortable she was after the clinic with everything - leaning her bike, positioning her hips and shoulders, keeping elbows high, all the things I tried to teach her for 2 years that she didn't get until she rode with other women trying to learn the same thing - I would have paid 3x what we paid for that trip.

The clinics also give a good taste of what elements your wife feels she really likes and what elements she is still less excited about (e.g., more interested in the sight seeing vs the tech aspects? or vice versa? or speed and smooth more than slow and techy?), so you can help plan your bike sizing, travel, wheel size and type accordingly.

Liv (Giant Bikes) also sponsors a similar clinic called Ladies All Ride ... but their camps are all sold out. Ladies All Ride sometimes does 1/2 day events but my wife didn't have quite as good a time on those as something like a dedicated 2-day camp where everyone can be appropriately grouped with good instructors.



Also, the used Mojo I bought off Baby Bear 2 years ago for $1800, and then gave to my then-girlfriend a few weeks before proposing, has also been a worthy price paid

[mtngirl79]

I completely disagree. At least for all of the trails I ride around Tahoe and NorCal. There are very efficient lines that I simply wouldn't dare to hit on a hardtail... and a lot of them.

Yeah. Plenty of lines are hard as fuck on a hardtail. Not lines beginners are riding.