The 416 Fire. North of Durango, San Juan NF

[grskier]

Can't confirm this but I've heard the diesel doesn't have the power of the coal fired locomotives so it can't pull as many cars. Fewer cars=fewer tourists=fewer $$$.

Time will tell if this was just an economic decision by that company, but based on the article posted earlier... I hope they have some awesome insurance.

Been sad watching this thing grow, but that's nature doing its thing. We're smokey here in the Roaring Fork from a fire in Utah right now.....

[goldenboy]

I've also heard that the diesel doesn't brake as well for some reason.

[Meadow Skipper]

Trigger warning, this isn’t going to be a popular opinion. Soapbox mode on:
That said, I know the railroad’s a fairly easy target, but IMO you can only put this sort of thing off for a little while at best. Most western conifer forests, and certainly the ones currently involved in the 416 fire, are likely to burn sooner or later. And if they don’t burn, they get stressed by age, overstocking, and drought, and beetles move in, or invasive species. I know we want the woods never to change but that isn’t realistic. It’s gonna suck there for a while, but these things are inevitable - if we don’t put up with it, our children will have to.

As far as thinning and prescribed fire, those are good things, but realistically there isn’t nearly enough money or public acceptance to do what needs to be done, and there never will be.

Bottom line, we need to learn to live with fire.

Google this: stephen pyne live with fire

[Alpinord]

^^^^^
Unfortunately, yes.

The last storm we had, there were about 50 lightning strikes in the area. Any one of those could have ignited a fire. I heard the Burro fire may have been from lightning, but not positive.

MS, you are in forest closure mode too, correct?

[Meadow Skipper]

Yes, the Santa Fe NF and nearby NPS units are basically closed.

[Garth Bimble]

I agree and nature's going to do what she wants but this is probably a man-made fire and could have been avoided. Burn yes but try and do it when conditions are a little less volatile.

[Meadow Skipper]

Burn yes but try and do it when conditions are a little less volatile.

That’s easy to say, but the cold reality is that the public won’t accept either the smoke from prescribed fire (either natural or human-ignition) or the cost of thinning. I speak from experience.

Also, only certain forests types will burn non-catastrophically. Spruce is not one of those.

[Garth Bimble]

That’s easy to say, but the cold reality is that the public will never accept either the smoke from prescribed fire (either natural or human-ignition) or the cost of thinning. I speak from experience.

Also, only certain forests will burn non-catastrophically. Spruce is not one of those.

We could log it...

[Meadow Skipper]

We could log it...

There you go.

[Alpinord]

The Missionary Ridge fire was supposedly from a hot catalytic converter sitting over tall, dry grass. The Animas Valley fire a week or two late was caused by an idiot turning on a weed burning fence during the uber drought conditions.

There have been at least 6 fires we have had snuffed out over the years within a mile of here. Including the following from a huge bolt last fall and another from a hunter flicking a cigarette. The week before the 416 fire, a guy shooting his gun started a fire on his property in rural a subdivision 3 miles away. Last year another started from a dumb ass shooting incendiary bullets.

The other day a bunch of yahoos sporting a confederate flag got sideways with a ranger after he tried to explain to them they can't build a huge fire. The were gonna get a warning but ended up with a ticket.

It's just a matter of time before the next ones go up around the SW. A friend calculated that an area 1/4 the size of Colorado burned last year in the western United States.

[SkiBall]

They need a diesel engine in that train and just find a way to pump black smoke.
Run that thing when it is safe. Gonna be no tourists when the place is on fire.

[Alpinord]

They need a diesel engine in that train and just find a way to pump black smoke.
Run that thing when it is safe. Gonna be no tourists when the place is on fire.

There will be more than short term tourist issues. Right now there are a lot of unemployed Silverton people and uprooted evacuees in need of food donations.

There are also reports of looting of evacuated homes.

[Tech Tonics]

I'm hesitant to join the "fuck the train" bandwagon. Yeah, it's ridiculous they were running the coal-burning engines on our first day of Stage 2 restrictions, but hindsight is 20/20. Everyone loves the train when it's pumping in tourist dollars. Not so much now.

But actually...yeah fuck that train.

I haven't heard the reports of evacuated homes being looted. That's severely awful.

Our forests are rich in dry fuels and anything could've started this disaster.

And I get it it too....the trails will be back someday. I really love the ecosystem and general vibe of Missionary Ridge (Haflin and 1st Fork) and the primary and secondary succession of aspen and oaks in the stands of old burned snags is beautiful....but it took a decade for those trails to come back. Fuck!

[Alpinord]

Hey MS. Wasn’t the Bandolier fire a prescribed burn just before the Missionary Ridge and around the time of the Hayden Fire?

We called it ‘the out of control, controlled burn’.




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[Meadow Skipper]

Hey MS. Wasn’t the Bandolier fire a prescribed burn just before the Missionary Ridge and around the time of the Hayden Fire?

We called it ‘the out of control, controlled burn’.

You’re thinking of the Cerro Grande fire in 2000, which began as a prescribed fire on Bandelier Nat’l Monument, ignited by Park Service personnel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerro_Grande_Fire

And the Hayman Fire in Colorado, two years later in 2002:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayman_Fire

The Missionary Ridge Fire began a day later the same year as the Hayman.

In my mind, 2000 was the year it became undeniably clear that we had entered the current era of mega-fires.

[justcuz]

Flew through Denver yesterday and snapped a quick pic of this fire. Guessing maybe 100 to 200 miles to the north east of Denver?? No idea which fire but it seemed enormous from my vantage point and my very limited experience viewing fires from the air. Big enough that the pilot flew around it as soon as we took off.


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[Alpinord]

Come on Bud!

:

[raisingarizona13]

Come on Bud!

:

I'm curious what affect heavy rains following this fire might have on the Animas River and other creeks in those areas?

Right now our forecast looks like Friday through Sunday is our best chance for heavy rain.

[bagtagley]

And I get it it too....the trails will be back someday. I really love the ecosystem and general vibe of Missionary Ridge (Haflin and 1st Fork) and the primary and secondary succession of aspen and oaks in the stands of old burned snags is beautiful....but it took a decade for those trails to come back. Fuck!

Serious question, but besides getting dirty, can you not ride the trails as soon as things cool off? I've ridden in prescribed burn areas directly after, but the scale and damage of those is tiny compared to what you guys get.

[Garth Bimble]

I'm curious what affect heavy rains following this fire might have on the Animas River and other creeks in those areas?

Right now our forecast looks like Friday through Sunday is our best chance for heavy rain.

Hard to say but I remember after the Hayman/Buffalo Creek fires they had to close a large Denver Water facility for 1.5 years in order to clean all the gunk out of it. This meant a closure of Waterton Canyon which is a very popular recreational area SW of Denver. I doubt this will be like anything on that scale though.

[Garth Bimble]

Serious question, but besides getting dirty, can you not ride the trails as soon as things cool off? I've ridden in prescribed burn areas directly after, but the scale and damage of those is tiny compared to what you guys get.

The NFS will have to make that decision. I'm sure there will be lots of debris cluttering up the trails that will need to be removed and the danger of burned trees falling will exist for the foreseeable future but that's still the case in the Missionary Ridge burn areas and they're all open, they've just posted signs all over the place warning of the danger.

[Meadow Skipper]

I'm curious what affect heavy rains following this fire might have on the Animas River and other creeks in those areas?

Right now our forecast looks like Friday through Sunday is our best chance for heavy rain.

The It Depends answer: rains could wash large amounts of ash, debris, and soil into the affected watersheds, depending on how heavy the rain is, how hot the burn was in a given area, and the lay of terrain. IOW it might not be so bad, unless it is bad.

[raisingarizona13]

Serious question, but besides getting dirty, can you not ride the trails as soon as things cool off? I've ridden in prescribed burn areas directly after, but the scale and damage of those is tiny compared to what you guys get.

A prescribed fire is a whole different than this fire. I'm not a fire expert but it looks like it's burning really hot so the soil around there is toast I imagine. That means those steep slopes are probably going to take a while to stabilize and there may be a bunch of years of land slides and heavy flooding below there.

The Shultz Fire here in Flag, 2010 was like that but surprisingly the Slide rock Fire a couple years ago in Oak Creek Canyon didn't really have that affect.

[summit]

I shake my heads when they cut down a bunch of beetle kill or make a huge defensible space around a road... then let the lodgepoles come back in too thick to survive well. Nobody wants to pay for them to go in and thin them a few years later?

[Dantheman]

Serious question, but besides getting dirty, can you not ride the trails as soon as things cool off? I've ridden in prescribed burn areas directly after, but the scale and damage of those is tiny compared to what you guys get.

USFS closed Dark Hollow after the Brianhead fire last year and has yet to re-open it. It might not re-open this year, either.