Justify atheism. Please

[frorider]

How is that lightweight? Or any more so than any other opinion in this thread?

Granted I’m not a religious scholar, or an anthropologist, but go to any civilization in any time at any spot in the globe and they believe in something bigger than themselves.

Agreed.

When people believe in something they tend to have militant factions.

Tell me how atheists don’t fit into this? How does this not show humans are predisposed to this thinking?

Because, as already discussed in this thread, atheists don’t ‘believe’. There’s no faith involved in atheism.

[frorider]

Or to put it another way: atheism is evidence based. So a 50 yr old Atheist could see direct evidence of God tomorrow and become a Theist.

[rideit]

Or to put it another way: atheism is evidence based. So a 50 yr old Atheist could see direct evidence of God tomorrow and become a Theist.

I'm in this camp. Faith without proof is fantasy.

[XXX-er]

So whats the difference between a Nihilist and an atheist ?

I always try to explain my Atheism my absence of belief to religious fanatics as a joke that somebody told and I didn't get it/didnt find it funny

[Supermoon]

Agreed.



Because, as already discussed in this thread, atheists don’t ‘believe’. There’s no faith involved in atheism.

I thought the distinction was that atheists do believe that there is no god. Regardless of justification don’t atheists believe what they think?

I’m not religious, so I don’t really have a strong opinion either way. Just seems to me they act a lot like the same people they criticize.

[jono]

I thought the distinction was that atheists do believe that there is no god. Regardless of justification don’t atheists believe what they think?

I’m not religious, so I don’t really have a strong opinion either way. Just seems to me they act a lot like the same people they criticize.

Because, as already discussed in this thread, atheists don’t ‘believe’. There’s no faith involved in atheism.

Obviously definitions vary. I happen to know at least one person who professes to have moved past agnosticism to atheism wherein he believes in non-existence. So I know there is a subset who add positive disbelief, if you will. Though I wouldn't presume to add anyone to it.

Regardless of the semantics, the phenomenon of 'militant' defensiveness of a position happens anyway. As can easily be observed here if a non-atheist sticks his hand up. Question to Frorider would be, does that mean humans are hardwired to be defensive of their position, whether or not that position involves faith, or is that only evidence that such a 'militant' subset of atheists do have faith?

[PNWbrit]

maybe he should have tried harder

Or humblier.

Apparently that works..

(But I don't believe it)


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[frorider]

I thought the distinction was that atheists do believe that there is no god. Regardless of justification don’t atheists believe what they think?

I’m not religious, so I don’t really have a strong opinion either way. Just seems to me they act a lot like the same people they criticize.

Still feels like you’re reaching for a false equivalency. Maybe it’s because you’re using the loaded term ‘believe’.

[Core Shot]

Take some college thermodynamics and try to answer the question again.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...logy/tree.html

Bwaaa haaa ha
Nice cartoons


Ps, been there, studied that, and more, and I still can’t figure out why is is

So cocksure with science. To me science is fun. I get it more than most.

But this is a strange trip. I’m not positively sure about much beyond my own limited existence in a finite slice of infinite energy states.

[highangle]

I thought the concocted distinction was that atheists do believe that there is no god. Regardless of justification don’t atheists believe what they think?

Used to be that anyone who could see planets move through a simple tube with glass lenses was an atheist, so I guess you represent progress.

[SumJongGuy]

What does the latest Triple Crown winner have to do with Atheism anyway? Bob Baffert was all preachy about how God must have had a hand in making him even richer...

[PNWbrit]

What does the latest Triple Crown winner have to do with Atheism anyway? Bob Baffert was all preachy about how God must have had a hand in making him even richer...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_worship

Seems as plausible as any other religion.

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[frorider]

Obviously definitions vary. I happen to know at least one person who professes to have moved past agnosticism to atheism wherein he believes in non-existence. So I know there is a subset who add positive disbelief, if you will. Though I wouldn't presume to add anyone to it.

Regardless of the semantics, the phenomenon of 'militant' defensiveness of a position happens anyway. As can easily be observed here if a non-atheist sticks his hand up. Question to Frorider would be, does that mean humans are hardwired to be defensive of their position, whether or not that position involves faith, or is that only evidence that such a 'militant' subset of atheists do have faith?

A more interesting (to me anyway ) question is whether militancy in defense of one’s position is fundamentally different if that position was obtained via rational review & conclusion Vs. faith/social norms, and therefore whether the degree of militancy is fundamentally different.

E.g. when arguing with a flat earther or anti vaxxer, both of whom are deeply fucking ignorant of the facts, are you more or less agitated than a fundamentalist Christian or Muslim whose very identity is at risk in the debate?

[Core Shot]

Agreed.



Because, as already discussed in this thread, atheists don’t ‘believe’. There’s no faith involved in atheism.

See that’s the crux of the biscuit.

Atheists believe that all the theists are wrong.
That is belief.

Now if you claim semantically that faith only exists in theism, then what about the faith that science is all there is?

[jono]

A more interesting (to me anyway ) question is whether militancy in defense of one’s position is fundamentally different if that position was obtained via rational review & conclusion Vs. faith/social norms, and therefore whether the degree of militancy is fundamentally different.

E.g. when arguing with a flat earther or anti vaxxer, both of whom are deeply fucking ignorant of the facts, are you more or less agitated than a fundamentalist Christian or Muslim whose very identity is at risk in the debate?

I think that is a more interesting question, too. Also an answer to mine, in a way--I think all of these provide examples of people digging in as an ego defense. But, yeah, the degree to which that's true may be quite varied--or not--based on what you describe. I would posit that "not" is a distinct possibility, though, since politics and even hobbies tend to garner some amazing levels of passion these days. The societal impacts might explain a lot about our current state of affairs.

[highangle]

See that’s the crux of the biscuit.

Atheists imply that all the theists are wrong.

Theists believe that every other theist is wrong.

[wooley12]

maybe he should have tried harder

Probably not a member of the one, true, yadda, yadda club and didn't know what saint to pray to who is in charge of the particular problem. The right one passes up the line to be addressed. Lost something? St Anthony is your guy. Avy danger in your travel plans, give a shout out to St Chris.

[hutash]

See that’s the crux of the biscuit.

Atheists believe that all the theists are wrong.
That is belief.

Now if you claim semantically that faith only exists in theism, then what about the faith that science is all there is?

...but it is not a "belief" based on faith, but a conclusion based on reason and evidence.

Atheism is not a belief that there is no God, it is a lack of belief in any God. Subtle but yuge difference.

No doubt there are some atheists who truly believe there is no God based on their fit feeling, and yes, that is faith, and just as wrong as theism based on faith. Most "real" atheists have come to their conclusion based on the preponderance of evidence to support that conclusion

[plugboots]

People fear death.

[frorider]

See that’s the crux of the biscuit.

Atheists believe that all the theists are wrong.
That is belief.

Now if you claim semantically that faith only exists in theism, then what about the faith that science is all there is?

Define ‘is’. Science is focused on explaining observable phenomena. We are all free to speculate about shit that ‘might be’ or ‘could be’ but do those fall within or outside your definition of ‘all there is’?

Atheism is pretty boring and self-evident at its core. It’s like noting that I don’t see or smell a grizzly bear in the airport as i wait for a plane. I see some trash on the ground, and I suppose I could see that as evidence of an invisible grizzly, but for me that’s not a logical conclusion based on available evidence. I don’t know or care whether others believe in that magic bear, unless they pressure me to also believe, or if they decide to argue that my logical conclusion (which by definition is subject to updating per credible data)...which has no impact on their lives...is just as ‘faith based’ as their magical beliefs. Somehow it’s important to theists to get agreement that we are all equally on shaky ground. Maybe they’re questioning their faith, who knows.

[Core Shot]

...but it is not a "belief" based on faith, but a conclusion based on reason and evidence.

Atheism is not a belief that there is no God, it is a lack of belief in any God. Subtle but yuge difference.

No doubt there are some atheists who truly believe there is no God based on their fit feeling, and yes, that is faith, and just as wrong as theism based on faith. Most "real" atheists have come to their conclusion based on the preponderance of evidence to support that conclusion

Again, semantics.

To me, and historically a lack of belief in any god is agnosticism

When you emphatically and affirmatively deny there is no possibility of a higher consciousness, that is atheism. Maybe you are hung up on the term god?

Science is great, but to make science your religion is odd.

There is much that science can not yet explain, but it exists, and I’m not talking spirituality, I mean science cannot explain everything in nature, and yet it still exists and can be measured, just not modeled

[wyeaster]

as far as i am concerned you all belong to the church of don't have a fucking clue. i broke off from that church to join the church of don't give a single fuck when i was in my early 20s.

thank gawd my folks didn't raise me in any gawd-oriented framework.

[Core Shot]

And if these words you do not heed
Your pocketbook just kinda might recede
When some man comes along and claims a godly need
He will clean you out right through your tweed

("That's right, you asked for it, remember there is a big difference
between kneeling down and bending over . . .")

He's got twenty million dollars
In his Heavenly Bank Account . . .
All from those chumps who was
Born again
Oh yeah, oh yeah

He's got seven limousines
And a private plane . . .
All for the use of his
Special Friends
Oh yeah, oh yeah

He's got thousand-dollar suits
And a Wembley Tie . . .
Girls love to stroke it
While he's on the phone
Oh yeah, oh yeah

At the House of Representatives
He's a groovy guy . . .
When he Gives Thanks
He is not alone . . .

He is dealin'
He is really dealin'
IRS can't determine
Where The Hook is

It is easy with the Bible
To pretend that
You're in Show Biz
(And a-one, and a-two, and a . . . )

They won't get him
They will never get him
For the naughty stuff
That he did

It is best in cases like this
To pretend that
You are stupid
(DOH . . . )


He's got Presidential Help
All along the way
He says the grace
While the lawyers chew
Oh yeah
They sure do

And the Governors agree to say:
"He's a lovely man!"
He makes it easier for
Them to screw
All of you . . .
Yes, that's true!

'Cause he helps put The Fear of God
In the Common Man
Snatchin' up money
Everywhere he can
Oh yeah
Oh yeah

He's got twenty million dollars
In his Heavenly Bank Account
You ain't got nothin', people
You ain't got nothin', people
You ain't got nothin', people
Thank the man . . . oh yeah
As we end another broadcast day
Let me say
That you ain't got nothin'
And he's got it all


Read more: Frank Zappa - Heavenly Bank Account Lyrics | MetroLyrics

[frorider]

Again, semantics.

To me, and historically a lack of belief in any god is agnosticism

When you emphatically and affirmatively deny there is no possibility of a higher consciousness, that is atheism. Maybe you are hung up on the term god?

the fact that you wrote that strongly suggest you didn’t understand Hutash’s post.

“Atheism is not a belief that there is no God, it is a lack of belief in any God. Subtle but yuge difference.”

[Core Shot]

the fact that you wrote that strongly suggest you didn’t understand Hutash’s post.

“Atheism is not a belief that there is no God, it is a lack of belief in any God. Subtle but yuge difference.”

The fact that you don’t understand the English language explains your confusion.

Lack of belief in A is different than belief that A does not exist.

LACK

Look it up