Traction patterned bases

[SkiLyft]

So, it seems that Voile has been using the fish scale base for a while anyways just got my hands on a pair of Harvest skis with that base pattern and I was blown away today! Here is a quick shot of the bases...



Based off prior reviews of the Voile BC series it seems they do much better in moist conditions as I imagine they would have a difficult time on iced out skin tracks. But anyways, I did not adjust my stride and they felt just as intuitive as my skins. Of course naturally I kept it between 15-20* and did not try to push it... but we shall see as I get more time in them.

What I liked:
- Rolling hills were a breeze, no need to swap out skins when there was a sizable down hill section -- just ski down and then continue on your way uphill again.
- NO HEAVY WET SKINS soaked in spring slush!! This was very noticeable today, my skis were light and that did not change as the temps warmed up.

What I didn't like:
- given the textured bases when applying pressure to my toes on the descent they just felt, well, different. I wouldn't say they felt sticky, but it just was a different feeling that was easy to ignore after the first few turns.

Thats it for now; oh, the skis are the Home Grown - 181 - its a local brand out of Steamboat springs. The skis themselves are pressed at the Icelantic/Neversummer factory.


I plan to update this as I get more days in on them.

[Peruvian]

Great looking ski. I love my Charger BCs.

Interesting website in that they don't show the fishscaled bases and when I put some Homegrowns in the cart the sale price of $539 magically changed to $689.

[SkiLyft]

Great looking ski. I love my Charger BCs.

Interesting website in that they don't show the fishscaled bases and when I put some Homegrowns in the cart the sale price of $539 magically changed to $689.

Yeah, they only made a few this year (pretty sure they are all sold). Anyways next year Eric plans to make more. Regarding their website just shoot them an email and they can tweak it.


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[GeezerSteve]

Welcome to the world of fat fishscales

Based off prior reviews of the Voile BC series it seems they do much better in moist conditions as I imagine they would have a difficult time on iced out skin tracks. But anyways, I did not adjust my stride and they felt just as intuitive as my skins. Of course naturally I kept it between 15-20* and did not try to push it... but we shall see as I get more time in them.

Max ascent angle varies depending on snow conditions. Get some skins for those skis if you plan do more than meadow skip or logging road hippy stick.

What I didn't like:
- given the textured bases when applying pressure to my toes on the descent they just felt, well, different. I wouldn't say they felt sticky, but it just was a different feeling that was easy to ignore after the first few turns.

Descending on fat fishscales also varies with snow conditions.. Fishscales will ski similarly to smooth-based skis in powder or wet pow. They also ski corn great and, actually, are sometimes faster on sucky wet snow because the pattern breaks up surface tension suck. But be warned: Descending on fat fishscales sucks on hard pack or any frozen surface.

[SkiLyft]

Welcome to the world of fat fishscales

Alright fatscale varsity squad... what’s upkeep like? Can I wax them? Should I wax them?


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[GeezerSteve]

Alright fatscale varsity squad... what’s upkeep like? Can I wax them? Should I wax them?

Patterned portion of base is extruded, so wax won't stick for long. I hot wax tips and tails, and use liquid or paste wax (e.g., Swix F4) for the patterned section in sticky snow.

[AyoBeng]

Alright fatscale varsity squad... what’s upkeep like? Can I wax them? Should I wax them?


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Voile recommends using a liquid nordic wax on their fishscales and regular alpine wax on the rest but you should check with the manufacturer. They use a softer plastic for the fishscales that would melt if you used an iron on them. Because of this be careful during rock season, I have a fairly deep gouge that won’t stay filled with either ptex or metal grip. Thankfully it’s not to the core so I’ve just let it be.

[GeezerSteve]

Voile recommends using a liquid nordic wax on their fishscales. . . .

Maxiglide works well but it can foul skin glue, so I recommend against it you plan to use skins (as most fat fishscalers sometimes do.) IME, better to use F4 paste or liquid on the pattern.

[HHTELE]

Fat fishscaler here who has followed Steve's advice.
Steve- what do you do about edge maintenance? I am not obsessive about actual edge angles- I seem to adapt to what is on my feet. But, I do like an edge to bite in when I weight it. I live in Maine, and the reality of my world is that touring often means dealing with what some people rudely refer to as "ice".
No idea how far off a file guide would throw off the angles, and whether that would matter, so I am pretty gentle, and use a stone and my hand.

[Peruvian]

Fat fishscaler here who has followed Steve's advice.
Steve- what do you do about edge maintenance? I am not obsessive about actual edge angles- I seem to adapt to what is on my feet. But, I do like an edge to bite in when I weight it. I live in Maine, and the reality of my world is that touring often means dealing with what some people rudely refer to as "ice".
No idea how far off a file guide would throw off the angles, and whether that would matter, so I am pretty gentle, and use a stone and my hand.

Check this out.

[Quadzilla]

Great post, the fishscales on the Harvest skis are maybe the same ones on the Voiles. Personally, I have been a fishscale skier for decades coming from skinny XC skis and going thru all the transitions into fishscale tele. Early on I was using the gear for low angle and early season skiing and using my bigger regular base gear for resort and steeper tours. About five years ago I got a pair of Voile Vector BC's tele which is a 95 UF ski and was instantly blow away by how well they skied all terrain on the down and how fast they were on approaches and runouts. Of course I was using skins a lot for any climbing beyond a gentle slope. I had moved away from tele skiing to Tech AT so the Vectors were only used early season and lesser tours. Anyway, this year I decided to experiment and got a pair of Voile Charger BC's and mounted Dynafits on them, since the Chargers are not made anymore I got lucky and probably got the last pair of 181's new around. This was a late season project so only about ten days on them so enough days to evaluate but not a full season of a variety of conditions. Most of the days were heavy soft snow and heavy deep snow as late season around here was a lot of thaw but little freeze. Was going to try a resort day to test but never did that. I also never tried max climbing angles as my tours were with others on skins and wanted to stay on same skin track without having to stop and add skins and slowing progress.

My conclusion was that these skis climb a little better than the Vector BC's due to bigger fishscale foot print and on lower angle slogging without skins, they are maybe 40% faster on the flats as compared to skins. They are especially fast on runouts where there is rolling slopes mixed with flats. As far as the down and I skied them on slopes from low to 40 degrees, just like my regular base skis of the same size and no slower than my touring partners. So, honestly, I am excited about these and plan to use them as my primary touring skis next season. So probably hack around on my Vector BC's early on but will use my AT Charger BC's for all other tours even if the tour is straight up and down from the TH.

WTBS, there is some things to understand about fishscales, first you really need skins if you want to ski anything beyond a gentle slope, second, the scales are vulnerable to damage and hard to fix and lastly, the skis are light and chattery on firm snow and would suck resort skiing groomer and resort firm. The skis rule most tours as compared where there is distance involved and in a lot of ways don't mix that well touring with others on regular base skis. For whatever reasons the skis are not popular at least around here so you end up being a outlier but you can loaf along as others are struggling on rolling terrain and long approaches................IMO

[SkiLyft]

Question.. does adding crampons solve the dilemma on days when its difficulty to get traction? Now that I have gotten a few more slushy spring tours in I AM LOVING the weight savings... however the thought of carrying skins makes me shutter.

[Quadzilla]

Question.. does adding crampons solve the dilemma on days when its difficulty to get traction? Now that I have gotten a few more slushy spring tours in I AM LOVING the weight savings... however the thought of carrying skins makes me shutter.

In certain situations ski crampons would/may increase traction but IMO generally that wouldn't be as efficient as skins only. So, looking at the pics of what you have they look like big mountain skis but to ski big mountains you have to climb big mountains, fishscales won't do that and adding crampons would be questionable at best. Plus, if you ski with others, they will be on skins and the climbing angles and speed uphill will be different, so a incompatibility and you won't stay up. Bottomline, the new generation skins are thinner and lighter and work great so no downsides in carrying and using, that is the way to get the advantages of big mountain fishscale skis.

[GeezerSteve]

^ ^ ^ Agree on all points. Fishscales are not a substitute for skins. Fishscales often enhance a tour which requires skins for steeper terrain.

Steve- what do you do about edge maintenance? I am not obsessive about actual edge angles- I seem to adapt to what is on my feet. But, I do like an edge to bite in when I weight it. I live in Maine, and the reality of my world is that touring often means dealing with what some people rudely refer to as "ice".

Nothing special. I occasionally hit the side edges with a file or stone. I have pondered planing the outermost 5-8 mm of fishscale along each edge to prevent the pattern from grabbing firm snow on the descent. Of course, that would screw up traction while traversing on a firm side slope.

[wooley12]

It's always a compromise and that's what makes it interesting.

[GeezerSteve]

IME, on some tours traditional smooth-base skis are a bigger compromise

[wooley12]

When I only had 1 pair of skis that I used for touring and alpine they were "waxable". Paraffin from my mom's caning supplies as I recall. If I lived in a continental snow pack, waxing for grip makes more sense.