The Nutrition Science thread

[TBS]

Nice work, TBS! I call bullshit on the "never try a diet with less than 100g carbs per day. Because I’ll never stick with that." though, because I have been doing that for 3.5 years now. I probably have a handful (10-20?) of days a year where I go over 100g carbs.

Thanks.
No doubt people can do well on less than 100g, she just said it was damn hard at that level, and I could get to where I needed to be without being so draconian. And she was right in my case - we didn’t expect me to get to a “normal” glucose level for another five months

Good on you for the discipline!

[cinnepa]

so include me with the confused on the benefits of a carvivore vs plant diet. stumbled on a couple carvivore supporters on instagram; most notable dr. paul saladino (ironic last name)....and was really intrigued by his pro-meat stance. some veggies seem to disagree with my gut/digestion and he seemed to confirm that in his findings....as he was plant based for 2 years and did not have success with it either. his general take is all veggies are bullshit; including nuts, seeds and legumes.....and goes on with pretty impressive knowledge to back this all up. fwiw his instagram is "carnivoremd2.0" if you care to take a look. he admits his diet is pretty boring, but works for him - grass-fed beef, organs, raw milk/cheese, fruit, honey, water. he would look into pork, chicken, eggs....but hesitates because because he usually cannot verify the food source the animals are on. another dude is the "liverking".....again, carnivore guy but does eat some veggies it seems. regarding plant based diets....people expound on the increased energy, loss of weight - most notable i would see pro athletes converting to this. many say it's helped them in recovery as well. so there's the rub - each side can make a strong case for their side....but in the end it seems you have to do what's right for each individual.
personally i'm going to experiment into the carnivore side - as i never had digestion issues before with those products....and yet have had issues before with veggies, nuts, some grains (love pizza too unfortunately).
look forward to reading your takes.

[Supermoon]

The only time I’ve heard of this guy was a dietician on tik tok tearing apart his science reasoning for his anti veggies stance. I don’t really know who is right, but I tend to lean towards the people with actual degrees and years of experience vs this worked for me so it has to be true.

[cinnepa]

Yup....the guy is an actual doc, so that's what struck me as curious about all this.

[Woodsy]

eat meat, eat veggies, less processed the better.
has that ever been disproven?

[The AD]

eat meat, eat veggies, less processed the better.
has that ever been disproven?

Yeah, the thing that raises a red flag for me is that this guy shifted from plant-based to meat-based. Maybe he should just try a normal omnivore diet and quit shooting for the extremes at either end.

[Mazderati]

But then he'd have to redo the whole product line.

[Skistack]

Paraphrasing Michael Pollan, eat food (what your grandmother would recognize as food), not too much, mostly plants.


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[Dantheman]

Yup....the guy is an actual doc, so that's what struck me as curious about all this.

Being a MD doesn't make someone an authority on nutrition as they are actually notorious for having hardly any nutrition training. On top of that, Saladino is a psychiatrist and from what I gather doesn't have any formal nutrition training beyond the little he got in med school.

If someone's social media handles are tied to their diet they're extremely unlikely to be open to contrary information so that's a big red flag to me. The totality of evidence strongly points to veggies, fruit and most plant foods being good for you. The bottom line is that basically all whole foods are healthy.

Carnivore diets are extremely effective elimination diets so they can be useful if you are struggling with an unknown food intolerance. But as a long-term diet? I'm extremely skeptical.

[CarlMega]

Carnivore diets are extremely effective elimination diets so they can be useful if you are struggling with an unknown food intolerance. But as a long-term diet? I'm extremely skeptical.

Your whole post was a good and kinder summary than what I might have written. The good Dr's webpage is him on JRE and selling very expensive supplements. Huh. I'm not into policing what other people eat or 'try out' but I'm skeptical of the practicality or usefulness of a diet like this long term.

Everyone is different and at a time in my life, I experimented with a protein/meat bias diet like this. Short term - you can eliminate some problem foods and see some muscle/body fat positivity...but, man, did not feel good and IIRC some crappy blood work. Fast forward 20-25 years and there's no way I'd consider eating like this at my age. As many ppl point out, the simple non-weird dietary guidance is really all there is too it. Refine to your tastes.

[cinnepa]

Thanks everyone...great advice.

[bagtagley]

Not sure how much gut issues are driving you, but if they are, a low FODMAP diet is worth a shot.

https://med.virginia.edu/ginutrition...Diet_12.16.pdf

[ghosthop]

What gels or supplements are people liking before workouts? I've been getting back into the swing of a bike commuting most days and have started waking up early to add extra miles. Once I hit an hour or so I notice the effects if I don't have something on my stomach before leaving the house. I usually have a protein bar and an apple or banana when I'm finished.

[Dantheman]

For pre-workout carbs whatever is appetizing to you is fine.

[Dantheman]

So, about that latest study that "debunked" intermittent fasting/time-restricted eating:

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-...g-really-shows
"In their normal lives, the participants in Guangzhou had a usual window for daily eating of about 10.5 hours. Studies in other populations, particularly the US, show about 90 percent of adults have an eating window of 12 hours, with only 10 percent of adults having an overnight fasting period greater than 12 hours.

For more than 50 percent of people in countries like the US, the overnight fast is less than nine hours, meaning they eat over a 15-hour time period each day.

So in the current study, the time restriction on eating was only minor – at about two hours less per day than what's usual for people in China. This would not have been too big a difference from usual.

The researchers also reported that in China, the biggest meal is usually eaten in the middle of the day, so that was not influenced by the time restriction. In countries where the evening meal is the biggest or people snack all evening, then time restriction may still be a beneficial way to reduce intake.

A 2020 review of 19 studies that used time-restricted intermittent fasting found it was an effective treatment for adults with obesity, leading to greater loss of body weight and body fat, with significantly lower systolic blood pressure and blood glucose."


In other words, time-restricted eating did not provide statistically-significant improvements in weight loss compared to people who were also practicing TRE. Shocker. Also, the TRE group did lose more weight, just not a statistically-significant amount. However, not rising to statistical significance does not mean that it was not a real effect.

[bodywhomper]

Fascinating research on non nutritive sweeteners (wish they’d done xylitol) and their effects on mouth and gut microbiome, insulin secretion, etc.

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S...674(22)00919-9

Their reported highlights (though there’s more in the Discussion section):

-Randomized-controlled trial on the effects of non-nutritive sweeteners in humans
-Sucralose and saccharin supplementation impairs glycemic response in healthy adults
-Personalized effects of non-nutritive sweeteners on microbiome and metabolome
-Impacts on the microbiome are causally linked to elevated glycemic response

[Dantheman]

Wow, there is a lot to unpack there. They really went deep. Agree that sugar alcohols would be really interesting to see, and glycine.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Fascinating research on non nutritive sweeteners (wish they’d done xylitol) and their effects on mouth and gut microbiome, insulin secretion, etc.

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S...674(22)00919-9

Their reported highlights (though there’s more in the Discussion section):

-Randomized-controlled trial on the effects of non-nutritive sweeteners in humans
-Sucralose and saccharin supplementation impairs glycemic response in healthy adults
-Personalized effects of non-nutritive sweeteners on microbiome and metabolome
-Impacts on the microbiome are causally linked to elevated glycemic response

I’m waiting with bated breath for their follow up paper on non-nutritive cereal varnish.

[Dantheman]

Collagen supplementation is looking increasingly legit: https://www.theguardian.com/science/...back-the-clock

[zion zig zag]

Collagen supplementation is looking increasingly legit: https://www.theguardian.com/science/...back-the-clock

Interesting. My wife has been talking it for awhile but I ignored it because I assumed it was just for skin health/look. But I’d definitely try it if it can help aching joints and muscles. Do you know what the recommended dose is for that use?

[Dantheman]

15 g/day per that article.

[zion zig zag]

15 g/day per that article.

Thanks, I guess I scanned too quickly!

[ötzi]

I tried collagen twice but the ones I took, these: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and these: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

both upset my delicate flower of a system so I bailed before very long. Maybe I should try again and stick to it this time.

Dan if you decide to take collagen please post up which one you decide to take.

[zion zig zag]

This is what the wife has:

[Mazderati]

Collagen comes in a few varieties. I've been taking this joint-focused type II collagen supplement for the last few years.

https://www.costco.com/kirkland-sign...100293064.html