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  1. #26
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    On second thought, maybe more likely the core is damaged and the metal layers are holding the ski together. Wood doesn't bend and stay bent without damage to the fibers (unless you're talking about steam bending or bent laminations).

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    On second thought, maybe more likely the core is damaged and the metal layers are holding the ski together. Wood doesn't bend and stay bent without damage to the fibers (unless you're talking about steam bending or bent laminations).
    Without fail all my ghetto bends of adding more or changing the splay contact point of skis has resulted in snap crackling and popping of layers in the core. And, without fail, the skiing feel of the skis has improved...and thus far, no delams, breaks or longer term issues of durability....so...my conclusion is wrecked skis ski more betta. Still have to figure out how to reliably unrocker the 'almost' fully rockered Volkl 2's I have, did some tweaking and they're a bit better for sure...kinda have a suspician that it'll be the first pair of many that wrecking them might actually wreck them but time will tell. I can just tell the sidecut profile and flex pattern is 'just right' but the rocker profile sux. Needs some camber towards the tail/tail support, more flat/or camber further forward on the ski and the rocker closer to the tip needs more splay and rounder curve...so in essence, I wanna create a K2 Darkside outta the Volkl 2.
    Master of mediocrity.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    Without fail all my ghetto bends of adding more or changing the splay contact point of skis has resulted in snap crackling and popping of layers in the core ...and thus far, no delams, breaks or longer term issues of durability....
    While ghetto rockering skis is a pretty fun experiment, and I’ve definitely fucked around with a few pairs, both with metal and without, that snap, crackle, and pop IS the sound of the core delaminating and breaking. Whether they ski better is a matter of personal preference, but, despite not showing any visible signs of delams or cracks, they’re definitely broken in some fundamental way.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #29
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    A few things.
    First pics

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    Well, I built my jig, but 12-14" downward deflection at the tip didn't seem to make the slightest difference in the bend. [I'd guess that means the core certainly isn't shot.]

    I also used a hydraulic bottle jack to press a more severe curve, closer to the binding [the ski was supported to just forward of the toe-piece] and that also did little/nothing.

    Since I didn't have a lot of time to dedicate to the project, I decided rather than rush things [and screw it up], I'd just put it away for another day.

    I'm even more shocked now than before. The amount of force that must have been required to bend things initially had to be massive. That I could put that much force into the ski without really realizing it; without big damage to me, seems - well improbable. And what I was doing didn't seem that outlandish, really. In short, I guess I'm kind of scaring myself, thinking about it. Forbid, but maybe I need to dial it back a bit?

    Anyway. I'll continue to work on it, and update the thread as things work out.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlayItLeo View Post
    While ghetto rockering skis is a pretty fun experiment, and I’ve definitely fucked around with a few pairs, both with metal and without, that snap, crackle, and pop IS the sound of the core delaminating and breaking. Whether they ski better is a matter of personal preference, but, despite not showing any visible signs of delams or cracks, they’re definitely broken in some fundamental way. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You fail to recognize that in the Orwellian age we live in...broken is fixed...in a very fundamental way.


    Gregorys: holy shit, helluva bend!
    Master of mediocrity.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toddball View Post
    Wow, had no idea Praxis was around that long ago!
    Yeah, I’ve been killing it for years.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    A few things.
    First pics

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    Well, I built my jig, but 12-14" downward deflection at the tip didn't seem to make the slightest difference in the bend. [I'd guess that means the core certainly isn't shot.]

    I also used a hydraulic bottle jack to press a more severe curve, closer to the binding [the ski was supported to just forward of the toe-piece] and that also did little/nothing.

    Since I didn't have a lot of time to dedicate to the project, I decided rather than rush things [and screw it up], I'd just put it away for another day.

    I'm even more shocked now than before. The amount of force that must have been required to bend things initially had to be massive. That I could put that much force into the ski without really realizing it; without big damage to me, seems - well improbable. And what I was doing didn't seem that outlandish, really. In short, I guess I'm kind of scaring myself, thinking about it. Forbid, but maybe I need to dial it back a bit?

    Anyway. I'll continue to work on it, and update the thread as things work out.
    Woah, that is a huge difference. In both my skis that bent, it was less than a cm difference in total rocker height. No way you can make that work as it was intended. You might be able to ski it, but can’t see how the core is not compromised.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmg97 View Post
    Waiting for replies. That is on my to buy list for next season....
    I wouldn't hesitate to buy them again.
    I liked them a lot. They don't bite as hard as my Kastles when it's super-firm. but they're a lot easier to feather out and drift. [I'm not much of a traditional camber kind of guy, except on extra crispy stuff.]

    If you like pretty burly stuff, you'll probably like them. [I've got Kastle FX94 and MX98, OG Cochise, and OG Bodacious - so you can see if any of those seem like your kinds of skis. If they are, then you'll probably like the Bones.]

    If I had to pick a single ski, they'd be near the top. Cochise would probably be higher, but not too far above.

  9. #34
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    Rocker the other to match, and viola: pond skis!
    In search of the elusive artic powder weasel ...

  10. #35
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    I bent a Nordica Enforcer a little bit. Shouldn't have bothered with the warranty, but maybe I thought there was a chance I'd get a new pair. I did not.

    That was a big April pow day in 08. I damaged my car, my skis, and my shoulder all in one day. It was epic.
    Also, those stupid little parking lot aisle dividers were obviously invented by someone who doesn't live where it snows.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
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    Well, I think you can rule out bending the undamaged ski to match! And you can also rule out the Mad Professor's (swissiphic) notion that they will ski better with that bend.

    Shit, might not even work out for a ski-adirondack chair.

    It has been a fun discussion, but I do believe you are officially hosed.

    Funny, the only other ski I've ever seen bent that much without snappig (~100 years ago - straight ski era)...also a Blizzard. Tough to say whether that's a good thing or bad thing.

  12. #37
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    Ski fast take chances. Well done

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by skizix View Post
    And you can also rule out the Mad Professor's (swissiphic) notion that they will ski better with that bend. It has been a fun discussion, but I do believe you are officially hosed.
    .
    Lol. I definitely wouldn't write off that ski. Back in the day, I used a tip to toepiece area mounted adjustable webbing strap to 'dial a rocker' into my Fischer Porohete's, Atomic Helidaddies and Rossignol B3 Bandits and frequently in super deep bottomless conditions, the most effective rocker curve would look similar to yer bent ski. Talk about pivoty, intuitive turns and cadillac like but poppy float, it was awesome!!!

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    Master of mediocrity.

  14. #39
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    Damn. That's a bend.

    I've bent a 190 volkl explosiv and a 180 Mantra (1st generation). The explosiv went into a chute wall at very low speed and didn't seem like it should have bent at all as I was trying to stop and line up, the mantra popped off after a failed 10' cornice drop (there's a picture of me wiped out and the ski 10'+ over the top of the cornice flying through the air somewhere). The explosiv was bent worse than the mantra.

    Sometimes the reasons why a ski bends doesn't make sense. Neither of them would hold a rebend. This is why I only buy used skis now.
    I've concluded that DJSapp was never DJSapp, and Not DJSapp is also not DJSapp, so that means he's telling the truth now and he was lying before.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    I wouldn't hesitate to buy them again.
    I liked them a lot. They don't bite as hard as my Kastles when it's super-firm. but they're a lot easier to feather out and drift. [I'm not much of a traditional camber kind of guy, except on extra crispy stuff.]

    If you like pretty burly stuff, you'll probably like them. [I've got Kastle FX94 and MX98, OG Cochise, and OG Bodacious - so you can see if any of those seem like your kinds of skis. If they are, then you'll probably like the Bones.]

    If I had to pick a single ski, they'd be near the top. Cochise would probably be higher, but not too far above.
    Excellent ski selection, I’ve been on all but the OG Bodacious and they all fly. The Bones have worked their way out of my quiver because I just never grabbed them over the MX98s. It’s either the MX98s or something bigger for me.

    Back to the issue at hand, I think you might be SOL. A buddy flipped his ski over, PTEX side down, put a 2x4 on it, then drove over the ski and 2x4 until where he thought it was just right and left it that way over night. Seemed to be closer to the other ski, but no where close to identical. He skied them for another 2 seasons that way.

    I’d personally cut my losses, mount them somewhere cool and stick to the MX98s, but then again I do have 3 pairs cause they rip.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    A few things.
    First pics

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    Kind of ironic you photo'd those in front of the aluminum siding, since that's basically the metal in Bones--just a little thicker

  17. #42
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    As I understand it, it's an alu alloy of some kind. [I thought it had titanium in it, but might be wrong.]

    But that siding though? It's cedar. [I know because we just had a huge job stripping/painting it just a couple of years ago.]
    I haven't gotten back to re-bending those Bones yet either. And no huge hurry since there's no place I'd ski them right now anyway.

  18. #43
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    The chemical composition of Titanal® in weight percent breaks down to approximately 88.5% aluminum, 1.7% copper, 2.5% magnesium, 7% zinc, and 0.1% zirconium. 
    ...

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    A few things.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    whoa - maybe bend other one to match, and go full Flyswatter
    j/k

    pretty severe: it could re-bend even if you get it close. but good luck!

  20. #45
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    You know, they might be pretty good for pond-skimming, eh?
    [Though, who am I kidding. I'm not going to start pond-skimming at my advanced age! (Not as old as Old Goat, but no spring chicken either!)]

  21. #46
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    So, a little follow-up.

    First, let me describe the somewhat crude frame I'm using to manage the (re)bend.
    Essentially I had some 2x6 and 2x4's lying around. So, I cut some 36" [IIRC] 2x6 ends.
    I essentially cut a through-mortice in the 2x6's for the 2x4's.

    The 2x4's were shoulder-less tenons - just the straight 2x4. Putting shoulders on the 2x4's would probably have been better, and then I could have run some bolts into the through-ends to hold the frame from racking. (Racking happens when the frame slides from being a "rectangle" shape to more a trapizoidal/parralellogram-ish shape.) But doing them without shoulders was quicker and easier and I didn't have too many problems with racking.

    I was stacking so many 2x4's to move the ski above the bottom of the frame, I simply built a "platform" that would move the ski up to about 8" from the top rail. That way I could wedge the jack into the space, and push down on the ski.

    So, some pics:
    An over-all pic of the frame
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    Putting a lot of force on the ski.
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    I'm not done yet, but I've moved it from about 55mm of splay to around 6mm. [The point at the tip where the "good" ski starts to have tip rise, but it's still zero. The "bad" ski had ~55mm splay there, and is now around 6mm or so.]
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    Overall. I'm pretty happy.

    I'll keep working on it as I have time.
    Several additional notes.
    Yes, the jack has come rocketing out of there a few times. And yes, it scares the piss out of you every time.
    There's never been any cracking or noise from the ski. That's been pretty surprising. So has the amount of deflection/force I've had to apply to get it to bend at all!

    Being able to use tape to measure/mark the bending point, and the jack positioning has been helpful. Also, you can measure the distance you're pushing with the jack, and repeat/extend it to get far more repeat-able results than you'd get by hand. [Frankly, IMO, there's no even remote possibility I'd have gotten any passable results using something less aggressive - like simple body weight+fulcrum.]

    Oh, one final thing;
    It remains to be seen if the bend sticks. I certainly wonder if the first time they get hammered again, if the massive splay comes back. But at this point, it's impossible to know. I'll try to update the thread with results once I get them on snow again. [If someone who frequents TLine wants to spot me a lift ticket before we get too deep in summer, I'll be glad to bring them up and you can say you contributed to the experiment! Hell you can even ski them if you like!]

    -Greg

  22. #47
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    Bent a ski. You too?

    Impressive effort.
    Any hand flex differential?
    Surprised if the core isn’t compromised but no technical understanding to know.
    Uno mas

  23. #48
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    Creative setup! Don't think I'd be willing to hop on those skis though. I'm sure this has already been asked/suggested - contact Blizzard to ask for a new pair?

  24. #49
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    That's awesome! Nice work! A bit more tweaking and I'll bet they'll be just fine to ski. If you're not a racer, does a difference of a few nuancey percentage points of performance difference from stock blueprint really matter? Ski 'em till they break! then fix em and ski em again!
    Master of mediocrity.

  25. #50
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    Gonna start a new thread but while i'm here...

    Just getting started on my summer season of skiing gravel pits and brainstorming optimal ski rocker/camber profile for skiing gravel.

    Gonna bend some old beat up rossignol b3 bandits into different shapes to see what works best...

    a few lines of thinking....

    1. pretty hefty tip rocker/splay contact point close to toepiece with flat tail for optimum ball of foot pivoting and ski center skidding turns with tail support

    or

    2. good amount of tip and tail rocker with flat camber underfoot just fore and aft of binding for a more centered feel and jump turn stable platform feel

    or

    3. ????????? open to suggestions. have a bit of gravel skiing experience but not enough to have a good feel on what ski length, width, rocker/camber, sidecut would be optimal.

    I do suspect a shorter length really fat ski would be mo betta but I don't have any really fat ski junker pairs to experiment with.
    Master of mediocrity.

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