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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    My modest proposal:
    Kid gets the death sentence, and gets shot with his own gun in front of the parents.
    Parents are then sentenced to cleaning up blood at every us school shooting for the rest of their lives.


    Is that too much to ask?
    No, those fuckers need to go to jail.

    "Nov. 26: Ethan Crumbley's father, James Crumbley, purchased a gun with his son present.
    On or about Nov. 26: Ethan Crumbley posted photos of a semi-automatic gun on social media with a caption: “Just got my new beauty today. SIG SAUER 9mm.”
    On or about Nov. 27: Jennifer Crumbley, Ethan Crumbley's mother, made a social media post that read, “mom and son day testing out his new Christmas present.”
    Nov. 29: A teacher at Oxford High School observed Ethan searching for ammunition on his phone and reported that information to school officials. His parents did not reply when the school attempted to contact them. Later, Jennifer Crumbley exchanged texts with Ethan stating, “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”
    Nov. 30: On the morning of the shooting, Ethan’s teacher came across a note that “alarmed her to the point that she took a picture of it on her cell phone.” The note contained “a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words ‘the thoughts won’t stop. help me.’" Also included in the note was a drawing of a bullet with “blood everywhere” written above it. Between the gun and the bullet is a drawing of a person who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding with a laughing emoji under it. The note also has “my life is useless” and “the world is dead” scrawled on it.
    The parents were “immediately summoned to the school." A school counselor removed Ethan from class with his backpack and obtained the note, but the drawings of the gun, bloody figure and writings were all “altered.” At the meeting with school officials, his parents were shown the drawing and were told they had to submit their son to counseling within 48 hours. His parents did not ask the whereabouts of the gun and did not to inspect his backpack for the gun which he had with him, according to McDonald. His parents “resisted” the idea of taking Ethan out of school and left without him. "

    And now they've bolted, manhunt underway for them.

  2. #77
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    For some reason this came up with my conservabot parents and they decided to play The SteepCard (we don't know the whole story yet i.e. look at Rittenhouse).
    So I lost my shit and cursed out my mom. What other side could there be for a kid having a gun and shooting his classmates? Guess we'll find out!

    Dear old people, brain rot is real.
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    My modest proposal:
    Kid gets the death sentence, and gets shot with his own gun in front of the parents.
    Parents are then sentenced to cleaning up blood at every us school shooting for the rest of their lives.


    Is that too much to ask?
    Sounds like an episode of the Squid Game.

    These are the threads where we really miss the insight of Big Steve.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNKen View Post
    Betting that is about as far as they could reach.
    I hope they can use one of the "too many gun laws already on the books" such as this one, but it strains credulity getting it to stick in gun country (sim to the disproving of self-defense)

    which is why better laws are needed & federal ones at that
    (which also strains credulity for it actually happening)

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ml242 View Post
    For some reason this came up with my conservabot parents and they decided to play The SteepCard (we don't know the whole story yet i.e. look at Rittenhouse).
    So I lost my shit and cursed out my mom. What other side could there be for a kid having a gun and shooting his classmates? Guess we'll find out!

    Dear old people, brain rot is real.
    The other kids were bullying him over his racist and homophobic views they call religious.. When he pulled out the gun they attacked him trying to disarm him. He was then legitimately in fear for his life.. Self defense all the way!!!
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Is it illegal to give a firearm to a minor? To knowingly allow them access to a firearm?

    I really haven't paid attention to this case, but sure seems like the case against the parents rests on something other than "they had an unsecured firearm at their home".
    Quote Originally Posted by spanghew View Post
    4 counts involuntary manslaughter:

    https://www.rawstory.com/ethan-crumbley-2655917813/
    Yeahhh, it appears that

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Views: 283
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    Burn ‘em

  7. #82
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    Ok, all you real-estate lawyers and legal dentists help me out here. Aren't there two aspects?

    1) negligent custody of their firearm which eventually resulted in a crime
    2) negligence in regards to their son's predicted actions which are almost rising to aiding or at the least failure to take reasonable action/precautions

    Maybe in MI #1 has some challenges...but in your role and responsibility as a guardian (esp. in light of what we've seen on that timeline) seems you'd be incurring some criminal liability - no?

  8. #83
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    They purchased and gave the gun to their son.

    Don't need dental school for that.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  9. #84
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    ^^^And likely with knowledge or a good indication the kid was having episodes of “violent ideation”

  10. #85
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    This crew confuses--

    Civil recovery, i.e. $$$$$--negligence, negligent entrustment, etc.--Preponderance of the evidence

    vs

    Criminal charges--jail---Involuntary manslaughter, etc.--Beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Running by parents will result in a jury instruction in the criminal arena that fleeing is tantamount to an admission of guilt.
    In order to properly convert this thread to a polyasshat thread to more fully enrage the liberal left frequenting here...... (insert latest democratic blunder of your choice).

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNKen View Post
    This crew confuses--

    Civil recovery, i.e. $$$$$--negligence, negligent entrustment, etc.--Preponderance of the evidence

    vs

    Criminal charges--jail---Involuntary manslaughter, etc.--Beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Running by parents will result in a jury instruction in the criminal arena that fleeing is tantamount to an admission of guilt.
    I'm asking because at some point isn't negligence itself criminal? The google said: "Criminal negligence is conduct where a person ignores an obvious risk or disregards the life and safety of those around him. Both federal and state courts describe this behavior as a form of recklessness. The negligent person acts significantly different than most people would under similar circumstances"

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Mega View Post
    Ok, all you real-estate lawyers and legal dentists help me out here. Aren't there two aspects?

    1) negligent custody of their firearm which eventually resulted in a crime
    2) negligence in regards to their son's predicted actions which are almost rising to aiding or at the least failure to take reasonable action/precautions

    Maybe in MI #1 has some challenges...but in your role and responsibility as a guardian (esp. in light of what we've seen on that timeline) seems you'd be incurring some criminal liability - no?
    Spot on, and that's a good point. Four counts of negligent homicide for each parent. Absent a statute on-point, legal precedent on Michigan does recognize an individual's responsibility to keep firearms away from unwanted possessors (i.e. children, felons). I'd imagine that's what the prosecutor had in mind when they presented charges.

    "Predicted actions" is more challenging though, but in this case I don't know if you're that far off in suggesting parental involvement may be approaching aiding and abetting or accessory before the fact. All facts are not yet known. It's harder to prove. Did the parents have a duty to mitigate their child's actions, and to what extend could they have anticipated those actions? We don't (yet) have a "thought police" in any U.S. jurisdiction...

  13. #88
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    Definition of Criminal Negligence in Utah:
    76-2-103. Definitions.
    A person engages in conduct:
    (1) Intentionally, or with intent or willfully with respect to the nature of his conduct or to a result of his conduct, when it is his conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the result.
    (2) Knowingly, or with knowledge, with respect to his conduct or to circumstances surrounding his conduct when he is aware of the nature of his conduct or the existing circumstances. A person acts knowingly, or with knowledge, with respect to a result of his conduct when he is aware that his conduct is reasonably certain to cause the result.
    (3) Recklessly with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he is aware of but consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.
    (4) With criminal negligence or is criminally negligent with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise in all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.

    CR306A Criminal Negligence as to Result of Conduct.
    A person acts with criminal negligence when (he)(she) should be aware that (his)(her) conduct creates a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a particular result will occur.

    The nature and extent of the risk must be of such a magnitude that failing to perceive it is a gross deviation from what an ordinary person would perceive in that situation.

    “Conduct” means either an act or an omission.



    CR306B Criminal Negligence as to Circumstances Surrounding Conduct.
    A person acts with criminal negligence when (he)(she) should be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that certain circumstances exist relating to (his)(her) conduct.

    The nature and extent of the risk must be of such a magnitude that failing to perceive it is a gross deviation from what an ordinary person would perceive in that situation.

    “Conduct” means either an act or an omission.


    CR307 Comparing Recklessness with Criminal Negligence.
    The concepts of “recklessness” and “criminal negligence” are similar in that both require the presence of a substantial and unjustifiable risk. They differ in that it is reckless to act if one is aware of the risk, while it is criminally negligent to act if one should be aware of the risk. In either event, the behavior must be a gross deviation from what an ordinary person would do under the same circumstances.


    In general :
    Criminal negligence is conduct where a person ignores an obvious risk or disregards the life and safety of those around him.

    Both federal and state courts describe this behavior as a form of recklessness.

    The negligent person acts significantly different than most people would under similar circumstances.

    An unfortunate example of this is a parent or guardian leaving a loaded firearm where a small child can get it.

    Certain crimes base culpability on a criminally negligent standard.

    An example of this is involuntary manslaughter.

    To be convicted of this crime, and held criminally negligent, the prosecutor will have to prove that the defendant killed someone unintentionally but acted with unlawful negligence when they did it.

    Examples:
    A few examples of a person acting with criminal negligence are:

    Firing a weapon in the air during a celebration at a public space park
    Leaving your child in your car unattended in hot weather.
    Swiping at someone’s hand while they are holding a loaded gun
    Texting and speeding while driving.
    “A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”
    ― Milton Friedman

  14. #89
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    Know or should have known are powerful words.

    You do the math.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  15. #90
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    Well, sometimes. Lots of standards, again civil vs. criminal.

    Criminally negligent homicide is a newer type of criminal penalty, attempting to encompass lesser egregious conduct to make stupidity a crime. Which here, may work. If that is the standard, there are lots of other folks in the line of fire.

    Wilful, wanton, reckless, blatant disregard for the life and safety of others. These "words" describe both criminal conduct, and can be used to impose punitive damages in certain settings in a civil court.
    In order to properly convert this thread to a polyasshat thread to more fully enrage the liberal left frequenting here...... (insert latest democratic blunder of your choice).

  16. #91
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    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  17. #92
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    FFS, the evidence right now points to they bought the gun and gave it to him, and you fuckers are still prattling on about negligence and whether they properly secured a gun?
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
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  18. #93
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    my question is why the dad thought the kid should have a gun in his hand, ever.
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  19. #94
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    Probably on their way to Mar A Lago..

    Accused Michigan school shooter Ethan Crumbley’s mother wrote an open letter to Donald Trump after the 2016 presidential election praising his support for gun rights.

    “As a female and a Realtor, thank you for allowing my right to bear arms. Allowing me to be protected if I show a home to someone with bad intentions,” Jennifer Crumbley wrote in a blog post, according to the Daily Beast.

    “Thank you for respecting that Amendment,” added the mother, who worked as a real estate agent in Michigan, according to the outlet, which noted that her staff bio has been taken down.


    https://nypost.com/2021/12/02/accuse...raising-trump/

    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Supposedly they left town the other day because they feared for their own safety.

    They are supposedly on their way back to town to face the charges. Of which, after the damming text messages and the info posted by BobMC, they are super obviously culpable here. That whole family is going to jail. Judge Nicholson does not fuck around.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ml242 View Post


    my question is why the dad thought the kid should have a gun in his hand, ever.
    Yo dad, do you want to get a school shooter? Because that's you get a school shooter.

    I'm thinking this is deeper and sicker than anyone wants to admit.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ml242 View Post


    my question is why the dad thought the kid should have a gun in his hand, ever.
    If this is legit I'd say it's tantamount to a smoking gun (pun definitely intended). How the fuck can you see this and think the parents have no culpability?

  23. #98
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    I guess America really needed something to replace Gabby Petito and Gerrish/Chung just in time for the holidays with a school shooting mixed in.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Probably on their way to Mar A Lago..
    Interesting, I thought all the 2nd amendment weirdos didn’t need anyone to “allow” them to have a gun. It’s an inalienable right, according to them. This woman is particularly st


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    They're on the lamb now...
    do you have any mint jelly to go with it?
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "I'd eat a bag of Dicks and wash it down with a Coke any day." - iceman

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