Fucking drivers!!!

[klauss]

Do you use lights? Probably...but I am shocked by the amount of road bikers who don't regardless of time of day.

[::: :::]

When endangered by oblivious drivers, I’ve whacked a side panel with my hand hard enough that the driver hears but not to do damage.

Obviously only works if you’re close enough and not scrambling for your life...

Glad you’re unscathed, DTM

[toast2266]

When endangered by oblivious drivers, I’ve whacked a side panel with my hand hard enough that the driver hears but not to do damage.

Yeah. Back when I was commuting more regularly, if a car came close enough that I could kick it, I would. (unless I was the reason we came close, of course).

[RootSkier]

[gif of guy on motorcycle kicking car and tipping over]

[skaredshtles]

Riding bicycle on road: FTS

Life's too short to ride the road.

[californiagrown]

I am, which is why I'm fine and typing right now. Like the last time I basically assumed this was going to happen and was covering the brakes before the prick even started his turn. Today actually wasn't quite as close as the last one.

Do people not always ride with the brakes covered? Maybe its my MTB background, but even with drop bars there are very few times i feel remotely comfortable riding without my my fingers on the brake levers... usually just cruising on a separated bike path, or in a quiet neighborhood with no cars around.

Def takes bikes skills to commute safely in downtown environment. Takes blind luck to do it safely long term though.

[Danno]

Riding bicycle on road: FTS

Life's too short to ride the road.

Yeah, I try to avoid that. Just today I had to ride my (mountain) bike from where my buddy parked on 16th and Grant to my office a few blocks away. I rode the whole way on sidewalk.

Which is going to get someone (can't recall who it was) all worked up about biking on the sidewalk. But I prefer to remain alive.

[doebedoe]

Yeah, I try to avoid that. Just today I had to ride my (mountain) bike from where my buddy parked on 16th and Grant to my office a few blocks away. I rode the whole way on sidewalk.

Which is going to get someone (can't recall who it was) all worked up about biking on the sidewalk. But I prefer to remain alive.

We work next to each other apparently.

Just FYI, I've had a cop write me a ticket for riding on the sidewalk in that area. $90. Had to go to court to get it thrown out.

[jamal]

Riding on the sidewalk is a good way to get hit by a car coming out of an alley or driveway or turning across you because they aren't watching for a bike, especially if you're coming from behind them with any speed. Someone driving straight into the back of you is statistically the least likely, especially in town (obviously if you're out on a highway what else is going to happen?).

But, it is legal in many places to ride on the sidewalk, contrary to popular belief, and if you are crusing along fairly slowly It's fine. I do it all the time if I'm going to a store/or restaurant or something.

Anyway, they put a path in next to the road I live off, which is cool, but if I'm trying to ride fast on my road bike, or coming downhill, I generally don't use it. So now I have people yelling shit out of their cars all the time because I'm not on the path. Like, the road goes nowhere except to houses, and is fairly quiet, chill the fuck out dude. I'll regularly hit 40+ mph on the way down, that's not appropriate where people are walking dogs and stuff.

[Dantheman]

When endangered by oblivious drivers, I’ve whacked a side panel with my hand hard enough that the driver hears but not to do damage.

Obviously only works if you’re close enough and not scrambling for your life...

With the caveat that I've only been bike commuting for 1.5 years, I've had very few issues with people passing too close. Every truly scary close call I've had has been due to failure to yield. I should just start bailing off the back and letting the bike ghost ride into the side of their car.

Riding bicycle on road: FTS

Life's too short to ride the road.

To be clear, with the exception of riding my MTB to trailheads or doing some pavement to close a loop, I don't road ride for recreation. Love it for transportation, though. No way could I go back to driving to work.

Do people not always ride with the brakes covered?
...
Def takes bikes skills to commute safely in downtown environment. Takes blind luck to do it safely long term though.

No, I'm definitely not pedaling 4 miles with my hands on the brake levers the entire time. That's absurd. My commute is 90% side streets and neighborhoods in the 'burbs.

Which is going to get someone (can't recall who it was) all worked up about biking on the sidewalk. But I prefer to remain alive.

Heh, I started that discussion.

1. The specific instance that triggered that comment involved a biker on the sidewalk who was pissed at me, a pedestrian at the time, for not yielding. Sorry, if you're in that much of a hurry see Point 2 and go ride on the street.
2. It's slow as shit and sucks for getting place-to-place in a reasonable amount of time. Also dangerous in its own right as jamal noted.
3. Often illegal. Low probability of being ticketed, but illegal nonetheless.
4. It generally pisses me off because:
a. It reinforces the incorrect belief many drivers have that bikers are legally required to ride on the sidewalk. Those of us who are quite legally riding on the road, and with good reason to do so, are then perceived as the lawbreakers.
b. If all the people I see riding on the sidewalk rode on the road instead, drivers would be more conditioned to look for and be aware of bikes.

[wyeaster]

i thought this was about slicing in golf

[S_jenks]

As much as I'd love to commute to my workplace on the sunny days, I simply choose not to because of the dangers.

Missoula is better about their bike paths and designated bike lanes, but there isn't enough to avoid the major roadways along the way. I also can't trust the attention span of drivers when they are too often:
a) Drowsy and not-fully awake on their way to work
b) Distracted and tired on their way home from work.

There just isn't enough collective attention on the road to justify the elevated risk every time I get on two wheels.

After living 8 months in Amsterdam and living with their bike infrastructure, I've officially been ruined for bike commuting in the USA. Never felt safer on a bike there versus anywhere else.

[jamal]

3. Illegal. Low probability of being ticketed, but illegal nonetheless.

Is it though?

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title41/Ch...18050820180508

(2) A person 18 years of age or older may not operate a bicycle or a vehicle or device propelled by human power on a sidewalk, path, or trail, or across a roadway in a crosswalk, where prohibited by a traffic-control device or ordinance

Legal unless there is a sign or local ordinance saying so, such as in downtown slc:

http://www.bikeslc.com/getbiking/Bic...eSidewalk.html

[Dantheman]

Is it though?

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title41/Ch...18050820180508

(4) A person operating a bicycle or a vehicle or device propelled by human power on a sidewalk, path, or trail, or across a driveway, or across a roadway on a crosswalk may not operate at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the existing conditions, giving regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing.

So, yeah, not really legal if I want to ride 15-20 mph and make it to work in a reasonable amount of time.

[Danno]

We work next to each other apparently.

Just FYI, I've had a cop write me a ticket for riding on the sidewalk in that area. $90. Had to go to court to get it thrown out.

Yeah, I work at 13th and Bway. You? And I don't ride around here often, only on the days I am going mt biking after work, and then only from where I park to my office.

Heh, I started that discussion.

1. The specific instance that triggered that comment involved a biker on the sidewalk who was pissed at me, a pedestrian at the time, for not yielding. Sorry, if you're in that much of a hurry see Point 2 and go ride on the street.
2. It's slow as shit and sucks for getting place-to-place in a reasonable amount of time. Also dangerous in its own right as jamal noted.
3. Often illegal. Low probability of being ticketed, but illegal nonetheless.
4. It generally pisses me off because:
a. It reinforces the incorrect belief many drivers have that bikers are legally required to ride on the sidewalk. Those of us who are quite legally riding on the road, and with good reason to do so, are then perceived as the lawbreakers.
b. If all the people I see riding on the sidewalk rode on the road instead, drivers would be more conditioned to look for and be aware of bikes.

You may have started it but you definitely weren't the person I was referencing, someone was very aggro about it (threatening to beat any biker on the sidewalk, that sort of thing). In any case, the area I am talking is the belly of the beast here, as "downtown" and urban as it gets, and I'll be damned if I'm going to ride on the road for the few blocks I am going. I bike slowly and cautiously so as to avoid many of the issues you mention, I'm not biking as a commute method. And TBH, there are some streets I view as safer and I am happy to be on the road for those. But Colfax? Broadway? 13th/14th? Logan? Fuck that.

But in general, if I can avoid pavement altogether, I do.

[doebedoe]

Yeah, I work at 13th and Bway. You? ... But Colfax? Broadway? 13th/14th? Logan? Fuck that..

Next to the Capitol.

And yeah, fuck biking on any of those streets. Sometimes I have 1/2 a block on one of them, but try to limit it to that. Sherman ain't bad but there are some crappy cross streets. And State Capitol police will yell at you riding through the Capitol grounds sometimes...depsite it being a marked bike route with signage at the entrances.

[bagtagley]

Yeah, I try to avoid that. Just today I had to ride my (mountain) bike from where my buddy parked on 16th and Grant to my office a few blocks away. I rode the whole way on sidewalk.

Which is going to get someone (can't recall who it was) all worked up about biking on the sidewalk. But I prefer to remain alive.

Same here. If I'm riding at lunch, I take the bike. It's a little under a mile from parking to office, but the sidewalk cuts out two super busy intersections with serious potential for failure to yield incidents. I ride slow and give pedestrians a wide berth. Aggro peds are rare, but they're never grabby, so it's easy enough to ride by telling them thanks, but I value my life. I hate riding on the road. Not even particularly comfortable in bike lanes.

[californiagrown]

No, I'm definitely not pedaling 4 miles with my hands on the brake levers the entire time. That's absurd. My commute is 90% side streets and neighborhoods in the 'burbs.
.

Would it make sense to throw some cut down flat bars and old MTB levers on your commuter bike to feel safer so that you always have your finger on the trigger, so to speak? Seems like it would make the ride safer for you, but everyone has their acceptable level of risk vs inconvenience i guess.

[jamal]

Big thing is to just pay attention and look farther ahead. Applies to bikes on and off road, skis, cars, etc. Seems like most people on the road are just staring at the next car (at best) and paying no attention to what's going on around them or farther up the road. Reacting instead of anticipating.

[skaredshtles]

I, for one, welcome our robot overlords...

[Dantheman]

Would it make sense to throw some cut down flat bars and old MTB levers on your commuter bike to feel safer so that you always have your finger on the trigger, so to speak? Seems like it would make the ride safer for you, but everyone has their acceptable level of risk vs inconvenience i guess.

I already have flat bars on the commuter. Like Jamal said though, situational awareness is the key thing.

[Dantheman]

So, two weeks ago this happened:

https://gephardtdaily.com/local/upda...-davis-county/
https://www.ksl.com/article/46404336...illed-in-crash

Leaves behind three little kids who will now grow up without a father. As far as I can tell no charges have been filed against the driver, and this far out it seems unlikely any will be filed. Such fucking bullshit.

[AdironRider]

What charges? Most she could get hit with was a ticket for failure to maintain lane no?

Bummer for the kids. It isn't fair to them.

[doebedoe]

What charges? Most she could get hit with was a ticket for failure to maintain lane no?

Bummer for the kids. It isn't fair to them.

Manslaughter is a thing. You don't have to intend to kill someone. Your negligence just has to. Literally the example in the wikipedia page on it (failure to adhere to traffic laws). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter

[Dantheman]

What charges? Most she could get hit with was a ticket for failure to maintain lane no?

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Ch...76-5-S205.html
(1) As used in this section:
(a)
(i) "Aid" means the act of providing the physical means.
(ii) "Aid" does not include the withholding or withdrawal of life sustaining treatment procedures to the extent allowed under Title 75, Chapter 2a, Advance Health Care Directive Act, or any other laws of this state.
(b) "Practitioner" means an individual currently licensed, registered, or otherwise authorized by law to administer, dispense, distribute, or prescribe medications or procedures in the course of professional practice.
(c) "Provides" means to administer, prescribe, distribute, or dispense.
(2) Except as provided in Subsection (5), criminal homicide constitutes manslaughter if the actor:
(a) recklessly causes the death of another;
(b) intentionally, and with knowledge that another individual intends to commit suicide or attempt to commit suicide, aids the other individual to commit suicide;
(c) commits a homicide which would be murder, but the offense is reduced pursuant to Subsection 76-5-203(4); or
(d) commits murder, but special mitigation is established under Section 76-5-205.5.
(3) Manslaughter is a felony of the second degree.
(4)
(a) In addition to the penalty described under this section or any other section, an individual who is convicted of violating this section shall have the individual's driver license revoked under Section 53-3-220 if the death of another individual results from driving a motor vehicle.
(b) The court shall forward the report of the conviction resulting from driving a motor vehicle to the Driver License Division in accordance with Section 53-3-218.
(5) A practitioner does not violate Subsection (2)(b) if the practitioner provides medication or a procedure to treat an individual's illness or relieve an individual's pain or discomfort, regardless of whether the medication or procedure may hasten or increase the risk of death to the individual to whom the practitioner provides the medication or procedure, unless the practitioner intentionally and knowingly provides the medication or procedure to aid the individual to commit suicide or attempt to commit suicide.

She swerved off the road and struck a cyclist who was riding on the shoulder with lights. That seems like pretty cut-and-dry "recklessly causes the death of another" to me. She should be convicted of (or plea to) felony manslaughter and have her license revoked. She stayed at the scene and called 911, so I would be OK with waiving prison in lieu of a metric fuckton of community service. Say, 10,000 hours per kid left behind.