The Tragedy of Suburbia

[jacob_dbu]

Suburbia has ruined America and made it a place full of places not worth caring about.

https://www.ted.com/talks/james_howa...sects_suburbia

I thought this was well done and so true. I hate driving, I hate the lack of public spaces. Sucks.

[old goat]

Used to be those who could afford it left the city for the suburbs. Now it's the opposite, accept for the least desirable urban neighborhoods, which are disappearing as well.

[evdog]

A great book on this topic is Fast Food Nation, discusses all aspects of how the fast food industry has influenced development in America from agriculture (potato's and livestock) to design of the suburbs. Great read.

[Viva]

A great book on this topic is Fast Food Nation, discusses all aspects of how the fast food industry has influenced development in America from agriculture (potato's and livestock) to design of the suburbs. Great read.

And, as I understand it, it was the Roosevelt administration that fostered white-populated suburbia and restricted black movement out of urban centers.

Since WWII, real estate development upsurped ag in Kalifornia. Too much $$$ to be made, and the paid politicians have been gladly complicit. Now the controlling lib party want to further reduce ag in the Central Valley.

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[hatchgreenchile]

. Now it's the opposite, accept for the least desirable urban neighborhoods, which are disappearing as well.

You see this one from Denver last year? Happened in Five Points, very old African-American community.
These guys took a bunch of heat for this sign.

[wyeaster]

You see this one from Denver last year? Happened in Five Points, very old African-American community.
These guys took a bunch of heat for this sign.

whatever else you want to say about that, it's begging for trouble

[fastfred]

You see this one from Denver last year? Happened in Five Points, very old African-American community.
These guys took a bunch of heat for this sign.

I thought that was funny as hell and people got their panties all in a bunch about nothing

in less than ten years that whole neighborhood will be all white, all the minorities will be living in aurora
in twenty years the whites will all be suing and complaining that they didn't know that their houses, condo's etc were all built on toxic waste from when that part of town was all smelters and chemical companies, hence why the minorities were "given" that part of town in the 1950's

[wyeaster]

white folks and their sense of humor

[Benny Profane]

White folks complaining about their incredibly cushy lives in suburbia. So TGR. I guess the next step is to move to paradise, a.k.a. a ski town, and then bitch about all the new people moving in the year after crowding the hill and driving rents up. What a horrible life.

[jacob_dbu]

Yeah maybe this is implicitly about black and white, rich and poor. But to me it's more about how we live in a country where driving is prioritized over actual people and community centers. No wonder everyone hates each other.

[DBdude]

i like living in the country. makes a career harder

[Garth Bimble]

I was a "suburbanite" for nearly 50 years but baled in 2015. The last place I wanted to go was a big city, I'm too old and crotchety for that shit and apparently I'm not the only one:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...e-city/521844/

[Ottime]

A great book on this topic is Fast Food Nation, discusses all aspects of how the fast food industry has influenced development in America from agriculture (potato's and livestock) to design of the suburbs. Great read.

Truth. I’d also put the blame on Robert Moses for making the car king, and destroying the rail system.

[Ottime]

And, as I understand it, it was the Roosevelt administration that fostered white-populated suburbia and restricted black movement out of urban centers.

Since WWII, real estate development upsurped ag in Kalifornia. Too much $$$ to be made, and the paid politicians have been gladly complicit. Now the controlling lib party want to further reduce ag in the Central Valley.

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There is not enough water for the all the Ag in the Central Valley. It should be left as the desert it is. No farms, no real estate. But I would not trust politicians to do the right thing, and ignore the money. No matter what their party.

[dunfree]

True or not, if that's not the definition of TED talk elitist bullshit, don't know what is. funny part is the rant against the 'burbs is skating to where the puck was. burbs are growing; the rich-urban city's are killing themselves aided and abetted by Uber-eats and the like.

"suburbs" grew from a need to house lots of people cheaply. so did "fast food". like it or lump it.

[iceman]

@Garth: Where did you bail to?

[Bobby Stainless]

Highlands Ranch. Suburbia on steroids.

[Garth Bimble]

@Garth: Where did you bail to?

SW Colorado, between Durango and Pagosa Springs.

[iceman]

This is interesting. I called the urbanization movement from way out in front, saw it coming and even made some modest money out of it. But apparently, looking at the data as I have just been doing, I held onto that narrative too long. It looks now like I was in a confirmation-bias loop in my head, I need to re-evaluate my perspective.

This is pretty succinct:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-up-last-year/

I still feel like they are missing something and that urbanization is the future, but I don't have anything to point to at the moment. The data I'd be interested in seeing is population density change for urban areas over time but I can't find it.

[iceman]

SW Colorado, between Durango and Pagosa Springs.

For old folks I've long thought that access to services (health care in particular), cultural options (sports, theatre, whatever) and a reduced need to drive would continue to contribute to urbanization. How do you feel, and pardon my slanted rhetoric here please, but how do you feel, Garth, about being an old fuck in the middle of nowhere who has to drive to do or get anything? What made you feel tht that's a better option than a condo with a store on the corner, a movie theatre on the next block and a hospital a few blocks further down? I'm not trying to say you're wrong necessarily but to me it doesn't add up to sensible.

[Garth Bimble]

I think developers figured out that a lot of people wanted the benefits that city life offered without the city so they changed how their "neighborhoods" were designed. Used to be the housing was surrounded by all the shopping/dining/entertainment etc. Now I think the focus is more on integration. I get it, a lot of people enjoy all that but it's too much like an ant colony for my tastes.

[dunfree]

I still feel like they are missing something and that urbanization is the future, but I don't have anything to point to at the moment. The data I'd be interested in seeing is population density change for urban areas over time but I can't find it.

labor, access to labor, and cost of labor are against urbanization in the current US market. Seems like everyone of the service amenity's people move to a city for - bars, restaurants, beauty, what have you, is hurting for decent help right now or restricting hours even closing because they can't find it. On the whole I think of the trends that started in the 00s and bled into the 10s are starting to run into sustainability problems. It's easier to profit making high-labor content artisanal pork products when labors cheap. Harder when labor's expensive.

Bunch of the others are getting pushed out because of rising rents, often sharply rising, often replaced with chains. If all you have are chains in the city, not much point.

other thing, of course, is millenials are starting to get paid and grow up. the burbs are easier to raise kids in.

[GeezerSteve]

Kunstler has been duly described as a "fashionable fearmongerer." He lives in his NYC bubble. If he got out there and saw what's actually going on, he'd learn that current trends in suburbia defy the generalizations he seeks to impose on them. Re demographics, many Seattle suburban are majority minority, while much of Seattle city proper is 90% white -- a big change from 30 years ago, but predictable because Seattle housing prices greatly outpaced those in many suburban areas. And some of Seattle's worst strip development (Aurora N) is within the city limits, while some suburbs are undergoing development of higher density pedestrian-friendly pockets, parks, paths and green belt developments. Those trends are not unique to the Seattle metropolitan area. FTR, I've never lived in a suburb and do not plan to ever do so.

[dunfree]

FTR, I've never lived in a suburb and do not plan to ever do so.

Didn't you live in West Seattle for years? it was a low-density auto-themed suburb. not all suburbs are of the levittown variety.

[Garth Bimble]

For old folks I've long thought that access to services (health care in particular), cultural options (sports, theatre, whatever) and a reduced need to drive would continue to contribute to urbanization. How do you feel, and pardon my slanted rhetoric here please, but how do you feel, Garth, about being an old fuck in the middle of nowhere who has to drive to do or get anything? What made you feel tht that's a better option than a condo with a store on the corner, a movie theatre on the next block and a hospital a few blocks further down? I'm not trying to say you're wrong necessarily but to me it doesn't add up to sensible.

Ice...believe me, there are days when I wonder why I came here but I always wanted to live in the mountains and knew there would be negatives. If you don't take those things into consideration you're in for a rude awakening. FWIW, I'm in a pretty rural area but it isn't Mayberry either, we've got a locally owned grocery store, small family medical practice and lots of good eating places within about 15 minutes. I have about 2 acres of land that adjoins another 150 that is owned by our "metro" district and is not going to be developed and that borders the San Juan National Forest. I have deer, bears, turkeys, lions etc. that come through regularly. Mrs. Bimble has chickens. My dogs have their very own dog park. I have access to miles of hiking and mountain biking right out my front door. I can walk to good fishing and have easy access to Purgatory, Wolf Creek and if I really get a wild hair, Silverton, not to mention pretty much unlimited backcountry access. Durango is a cool old town that has a very "young" vibe so we go there pretty often.

I guess it all boils down to what your priorities are. I'm not that fucking old, so the health care thing isn't a huge deal for me (yet). I work from home so that isn't an issue for me either. The other things you mentioned are nice and I do miss them sometimes but to me, they are far outweighed by the things I do have...