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  1. #26
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    Mar 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    If the industry wants growth, they should not make a profit on super-young kids taking lessons. Make it reasonable, it shouldn't be over 200 bucks for a day of skiing. Subsidize that shit and I will be spending more money in other ways at your resort, and It will pay off in the long run when you create life-long skiers. Also, a variety (or even just one choice) of group lessons would be nice, I can't understand why every big Utah resort doesn't have options for my four year old. Some do, most don't. Not doing a private lesson for $200+ for her instead.
    This one has always confused me, I think it's pretty well accepted that if you start skiing at a young age you're more likely to stick with it throughout your life AND introduce your kids to it. Even drug dealers know that if you give away a little crack to the guy that's never had it that he'll be a customer for life. All kids love skiing, they'll make their less enthused parents take them if it's affordable. Tickets, lessons and equipment rentals for kids should be looked at as an investment, not a profit center. I think Breck was about $80 or $90 for a kids ticket this year, for a kid who's going to ski the bunny hill for 5 or 6 laps. WTF?

  2. #27
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    If the industry wants growth, they should not make a profit on super-young kids taking lessons. Make it reasonable, it shouldn't be over 200 bucks for a day of skiing. Subsidize that shit and I will be spending more money in other ways at your resort, and It will pay off in the long run when you create life-long skiers. Also, a variety (or even just one choice) of group lessons would be nice, I can't understand why every big Utah resort doesn't have options for my four year old. Some do, most don't. Not doing a private lesson for $200+ for her instead.
    localy the hills got 30$ seasons passes for 10yr olds

    what i see in small town BC is a lot of younger people can't afford skiing but the old fucks have disposable income
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  3. #28
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    Sep 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by sruffian View Post
    ^^ doesn't common sense suggest that operating ski resorts is significantly less profitable than real estate development? I mean vail and ksl have clearly prioritized that aspect. Which to me suggests it's less profitable than most ways of investing as there are always opportunities for real estate development.
    Actually, for ski resorts, there are not always opportunities for real estate development. Land near ski resorts is quite often very limited. Real estate used to be the model, but I believe that most resorts have turned toward a more sustainable model, ie a revenue stream that exceeds expenses on a regular basis (tickets, lessons, F&B).

    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    If the industry wants growth, they should not make a profit on super-young kids taking lessons. Make it reasonable, it shouldn't be over 200 bucks for a day of skiing. Subsidize that shit and I will be spending more money in other ways at your resort, and It will pay off in the long run when you create life-long skiers. Also, a variety (or even just one choice) of group lessons would be nice, I can't understand why every big Utah resort doesn't have options for my four year old. Some do, most don't. Not doing a private lesson for $200+ for her instead.
    Well, they all do this, it's just a question of whether they discount enough to make it work. For ex, my kid did a 3 lesson program this year, the cost was a very reasonable $330 total. Her tickets were free until recently. I think they probably figure that if you're willing to pay to put your own ass on the hill, you'll pay something for your kid too. Sure, it could be cheaper, and if you're not a local of a sort you don't have access to all the deals, but it's a question of degree, not whether they try to get the young skiers.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  4. #29
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    Nov 2012
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    The ski areas & resorts that can be day tripped from major metro areas will be fine.
    The resorts that cater to the ultra rich will also be fine.
    It's the feeder hills and small ski areas/resorts in remote areas that I would be concerned about.
    Epic/IKON have devalued the lift ticket and are concentrating people at the same hills. Why go somewhere new like Eagle Point, Turner Mtn or Panorama when you get free days at Whistler or Jackson?


    Quote Originally Posted by sruffian View Post
    I started thinking about what other models would work for tgr types, and silverton came to mind. Ha. Cus that shit's so popular...
    Silverton is so sick, but how many people are there a year, 5000? Not even a dent on the skiing scale.

  5. #30
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    Oct 2005
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    Wasatch
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    It's comical to look at traffic on i70 into summit county or i80 into tahoe on snowy weekends and think skier populations are declining. That can't be true.

    If it's like most industries, they define 'reduced growth' as shrinkage, which isn't accurate.
    Unfortunately, shuttered mom and pop hills AND increasing crowds at the remaining large resorts is consistent with an industry with low marginal costs and large/increasing fixed costs (insurance and snowmaking). Also consistent with this state of affairs: a decline in the overall size of the industry and higher prices for consumers.

    Read NELSAP if you want some skiing history and a view into where/how the industry is shrinking.

  6. #31
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    Apr 2007
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    2,315
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    Unfortunately, shuttered mom and pop hills AND increasing crowds at the remaining large resorts is consistent with an industry with low marginal costs and large/increasing fixed costs (insurance and snowmaking). Also consistent with this state of affairs: a decline in the overall size of the industry and higher prices for consumers.

    Read NELSAP if you want some skiing history and a view into where/how the industry is shrinking.
    We still shred at the oldest continually operating ski area in the country. I volunteer there and am proud to support a sustainable model of skiing and show my kid skiing isn't about wealth and massive development schemes.
    NorthEast Slopes FTW.

  7. #32
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    Sep 2009
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    781
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    Younger generations would rather stare at their phone, so they are not taking up skiing the way older generations did. Baby Boomers remain the bread and butter of skiing, but they are starting to drop off due to health reasons, so, yes, there will be fewer skiers in NA going forward. And that does spell trouble for the ski industry whether you're talking about ticket sales or gear sales.
    Nah, it's us younger folks that can't afford ski gear and lift tickets!

    I feel like it's the post-college 20s- early 30s demographic that is getting shafted. I grew up skiing regularly, and lately only go 1-2/times a year - honestly the costs of most resorts is appalling to the point where I've almost lost complete interest in skiing.

  8. #33
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Locally the schools and the first nations all go to the hill which really helps the bottom line, in the past during exams the HS has rented the hill for the day ... babysitting

    Also good for the bottom line have been A couple of movies, a TV segment, a commercial, right now they are shooting a Chinese language Everest movie
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  9. #34
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    Oct 2007
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    12,565
    Quote Originally Posted by Groomer Gambler View Post
    Nah, it's us younger folks that can't afford ski gear and lift tickets!

    I feel like it's the post-college 20s- early 30s demographic that is getting shafted. I grew up skiing regularly, and lately only go 1-2/times a year - honestly the costs of most resorts is appalling to the point where I've almost lost complete interest in skiing.
    Funny, most places the season passes are far less expensive than they were 20 years ago. Finding cheap used gear is easier than ever with craigslist.

  10. #35
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    Mar 2008
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    [a] Van [down by the river]
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    20 years ago? Be realistic here.

    ... or maybe you are... where do you ski?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalisto View Post
    20 years ago? Be realistic here.

    ... or maybe you are... where do you ski?
    Google Epic pass or Ikon pass. Both well under $1K. My first season pass to Vail/Beaver creek in the mid nineties (and no other mountains) was just over $1K. Now you can get a shitload more access for about $6-800.

    Back in the day, we used to save up money in the summer to buy ski passes and gear for the upcoming season. It was Crazy! We got these things called "jobs", where you "work" and then every once in a while they give you money.

  12. #37
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    Mar 2018
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    The one thing I want to grow in the sport is the amount of women that are out there.

    Besides working with them, having more chicks hanging around make most anything better...lol

    *When I’m partying...I want me some women!

  13. #38
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    Nov 2007
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    Eburg
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    FWIW, at least 50% of XC skiers around here are female. Also, XC ski financial barriers are much lower. Yeah, serious XC racers spend lots of $$ on gear, although racers comprise a small slice of XC skiers.

  14. #39
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    May 2011
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    CO
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    I fully agree with the drive to grow the sport. I mean, what size is the average ski now? 165cm? Maybe less with all the 150cm rental skis out there? I'd like that number to grow to at least 180, and 185 would be even better. Short skis and tight radii are really killing the mogul size. Some are so tight that you can span bumps with 191cm skis. Let's lead the charge, no more short skis!

    (Sorry snowboarders, your shit is too short, too)

  15. #40
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredgnar View Post
    My first season pass to Vail/Beaver creek in the mid nineties (and no other mountains) was just over $1K.
    holy fuck. That seems absurd for the mid 90s. My student pass 10 years ago was $250 (Canadian) to Whistler.... sure heavily discounted, but still.

  16. #41
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    Sep 2009
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    781
    Quote Originally Posted by shredgnar View Post
    Google Epic pass or Ikon pass. Both well under $1K. My first season pass to Vail/Beaver creek in the mid nineties (and no other mountains) was just over $1K. Now you can get a shitload more access for about $6-800.

    Back in the day, we used to save up money in the summer to buy ski passes and gear for the upcoming season. It was Crazy! We got these things called "jobs", where you "work" and then every once in a while they give you money.
    Considering I could get a college season pass for under $200 (about 8yrs ago though)... Also depends where you live. I was in the northeast for awhile and passes after college immediately jumped to well over $600-700 (although I think now some mountains do a 22-26 year old type pass) and the closest mountains all were/are pushing $90+ for a day lift ticket.

    I hate the back in the day "jobs" and "work" bullshit argument. It's not that people don't "work" anymore, it's the general cost of living has gone up while entry level wages have remained the same, hence why a $600 season pass is a pretty significant financial commitment these days!
    Last edited by Groomer Gambler; 04-21-2018 at 10:10 PM.

  17. #42
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    Nov 2015
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    5,378
    Quote Originally Posted by Groomer Gambler View Post
    ...I hate the back in the day "jobs" and "work" bullshit argument. It's not that people don't "work" anymore, it's the general cost of living has gone up while entry level wages have remained the same, hence why a $600 season pass is a pretty significant financial commitment these days!
    This sounds like polyass talk (shh...he may be right)


    Quote Originally Posted by zartagen View Post
    I fully agree with the drive to grow the sport. I mean, what size is the average ski now? 165cm? Maybe less with all the 150cm rental skis out there? I'd like that number to grow to at least 180, and 185 would be even better. Short skis and tight radii are really killing the mogul size. Some are so tight that you can span bumps with 191cm skis. Let's lead the charge, no more short skis!

    (Sorry snowboarders, your shit is too short, too)

    "Some folks may have the luxury to hold out for “the perfect.” But a lot of Americans are hurting right now and they can’t wait for that." - Hillary Clinton

  18. #43
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    Sep 2010
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    Shuswap Highlands
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    Growing the sport

    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    FWIW, at least 50% of XC skiers around here are female. Also, XC ski financial barriers are much lower. Yeah, serious XC racers spend lots of $$ on gear, although racers comprise a small slice of XC skiers.
    Truth. And mtn cyclists with the most hours locally are the ladies too. Aerobics classes 2100 century.
    Seems every club has a new groomer through some local/regional grant. Only enemy is elevation and latitude but so far jackrabbit classes are always full.

  19. #44
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    Feb 2008
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    Motown
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    694
    Brighton has a "millenial pass" (-$200 for 26-30yo)...obviously targeted to keep the aging youth engaged in the sport. And while it's now rather dated, the book "Downhill Slide" (p. 2002) touches on why the corporate conglomeration of resorts are bad for sustaining affordable skiing. Granted this was published well before the advent of the EpicIkonigrophy of season passes, it does serve as a reminder that the end game is quarterly profits for investors and not developing and sustaining middle income skiers (less than $100k annually). Intrawest 2.0 will likely follow the march towards Chapter 13.

  20. #45
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    Oct 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groomer Gambler View Post
    Considering I could get a college season pass for under $200 (about 8yrs ago though)... Also depends where you live. I was in the northeast for awhile and passes after college immediately jumped to well over $600-700 (although I think now some mountains do a 22-26 year old type pass) and the closest mountains all were/are pushing $90+ for a day lift ticket.

    I hate the back in the day "jobs" and "work" bullshit argument. It's not that people don't "work" anymore, it's the general cost of living has gone up while entry level wages have remained the same, hence why a $600 season pass is a pretty significant financial commitment these days!
    Definitely location dependent, I'll give you that. But I can still buy a pass to 1-2 local mountains for under $400. That's pretty cheap and cheaper than it was many years ago. I paid $650 for a Baker pass when I was totally broke 15 years ago. I guess it also comes down to priorities. $600-$700 for a whole season of skiing is totally reasonable. Pays for itself in 7 days.

  21. #46
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    Sep 2009
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    UK
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    Day tickets are now often in the $140 range and they wonder why the sport isn't growing.
    Quote Originally Posted by b dubya View Post
    Tricks are for hookers

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