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Thread: Growing the sport
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04-18-2018, 12:33 PM #1
Growing the sport
I’m surprised this is still a thing. Does it need to grow?
Did it ever?
http://www.nsaa.org/growing-the-sport/model-for-growth/
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04-18-2018, 12:45 PM #2
It's the same with every other sport that this phrase has been uttered about: All you need to know is in the first sentence
In order for the ski and snowboard industry to grow the sport,
It's not about making the sport better. It's about increasing profitability for those relying upon it. That's all it ever is whenever anyone uses that phrase.Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp
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04-18-2018, 01:16 PM #3Registered User
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04-18-2018, 02:53 PM #4
This is Murica. Of course the sport needs to grow. Everything needs to grow.
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04-18-2018, 04:39 PM #5
The free accessible parking needs to grow, even at the penalty of a bus ride.
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04-18-2018, 05:28 PM #6Chowder Lover
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growth is what gives us options, so yea, growth is necessary. If it goes the other way then ski areas don't invest in new terrain or facility upgrades (or worse shut down) and equipment manufacturers don't invest in R&D. When you get away from high population density areas and ski on week days you see just how few people are supporting these rather expensive business models. I can tell you the resorts along I-70 certainly don't need any weekend growth but I was in Crested Butte a few weeks ago and mid week the place was a ghost town.
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04-18-2018, 05:35 PM #7
Well I’ve not studied the bottom line as much as others have, but they seem to be turning a ridiculous huge profit. And I’ve skied a lot of very busy weekdays this year. Like, no parking available type busy. I mean there was parking for me cause I get there early. But that used to be a perk of skiing weekdays. Extra sleep and still close parking and not behind 200 people in the corral before the lift spins.
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04-18-2018, 06:02 PM #8Registered Useless
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^^ doesn't common sense suggest that operating ski resorts is significantly less profitable than real estate development? I mean vail and ksl have clearly prioritized that aspect. Which to me suggests it's less profitable than most ways of investing as there are always opportunities for real estate development.
I don't know if brands like solly and rossignol are turning 'huge profits', but I know for a fact many small manufacturers aren't making much at all, if anything. The profitable companies seem to be gobbled up by 'brand management' firms aka conglomerates, which disincentivizes innovation. See the last 15 years of ski manufacturing, design, etc.
Communities like TGR probably benefit most from the huge sunk costs that resorts and boot manufacturers try to recoup by buttfucking the average tourist - we wouldn't have mountain ops midweek without it. Then we get torn cus weekends are too busy not enough parking too many tourists/foreigners, while the midweek model is completely unsustainable.
I started thinking about what other models would work for tgr types, and silverton came to mind. Ha. Cus that shit's so popular...
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04-18-2018, 10:53 PM #9
Not sure what you’re trying to say Jong. Are you for growing the sport or against it? Is it going to benefit the real estate investors or rossi or tgr or onep? Is it going to make it a better ski day on the ski hill or worse?
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04-19-2018, 07:40 AM #10
Younger generations would rather stare at their phone, so they are not taking up skiing the way older generations did. Baby Boomers remain the bread and butter of skiing, but they are starting to drop off due to health reasons, so, yes, there will be fewer skiers in NA going forward. And that does spell trouble for the ski industry whether you're talking about ticket sales or gear sales.
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04-19-2018, 08:07 AM #11
No it needs to get smaller
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04-19-2018, 08:15 AM #12Registered User
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Sure as fuck doesn't seem like the "sport" needs to be "grown" round these parts.
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04-19-2018, 08:22 AM #13
you can buy a video game for less than a lift ticket and get way more hours of use out of it.
Haven't industry numbers flatlined/declined the last little while? I think I saw somewhere that numbers have dropped dramatically for the small bumps in the midwest but are slightly increasing in the big resorts out west. That would explain the crowds at the big resorts...
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04-19-2018, 08:31 AM #14Registered User
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04-19-2018, 08:35 AM #15
Haven't you heard? In America the answer to all problems is tax cuts for the rich and more growth.
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04-19-2018, 08:44 AM #16
I figure you and mbsc have studied this stuff, so I’m inclined to believe you, but that said, hard to fathom the bulk of skiers are over 50. What about all the instagram skiers? Also a little extra irony hat the vail hordes are coming to you next year, figure your opinion will change?
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04-19-2018, 01:58 PM #17Chowder Lover
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I think the costs of getting in make it too difficult for younger generations, sure distractions like technology probably play a role, but when you can barely cover your rent, you're relying on services like Uber to drive you around and you're Whole Foods bill takes up the remainder of your pay check spending $170 for a lift ticket, $50 for gear rental and $120 for a lesson just to be cold and fall down all day doesn't sound too appealing. If my parents hadn't raised me to be a skier I doubt I'd pick it up at this point in my life which means I wouldn't be raising my kids to be skiers.
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04-19-2018, 02:49 PM #18
America's population is growing about 0.7% per year, so to keep the standard of living stable we need to grow 0.7% per year. Beyond that growth of the economy increases the wealth of the nation, which would be an admirable goal if the increased wealth of the nation were spent on raising the standard of living of the less well off, on infrastructure, health care, higher minimum wages, mass transit, education, green energy. Instead the excess wealth goes to increase the estates of the very wealthy. So fuck growth.
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04-19-2018, 04:28 PM #19
Growth isn't bad so long as there's an effective means to spread the wealth. There's a simple answer: Steeply progressive taxation of the top 0.5%, collect the taxes, employ the working class with good jobs fixing battered infrastructure. President Eisenhower (R) advocated exactly that. The only obstacle is that it is politically impossible today because Ronnie R brainwashed the GOP sheep to believe in Trickle Down Magic, so we're going the opposite direction: Most rich people pay a smaller percentage of their income and wealth the most working people.
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04-19-2018, 04:39 PM #20
It's comical to look at traffic on i70 into summit county or i80 into tahoe on snowy weekends and think skier populations are declining. That can't be true.
If it's like most industries, they define 'reduced growth' as shrinkage, which isn't accurate.Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp
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04-19-2018, 04:55 PM #21
My tech comment was kind of a joke. Your post sums it up well, except you need to add "crushing student loan debt" to the Uber and Whole Foods bills. Also, when I was a kid my dad and I would leave Golden at 8am and be skiing Winter Park by 9, no problem. Doubt that happens with traffic these days. Skiing is a giant and expensive pain in the ass for most people.
We've already been losing smaller ski areas at a fast rate, I think I heard that NY had twice as many ski areas 30-40 years ago as exist today. Those were the types of places where people would get into skiing, and get into it inexpensively. That's a trend that will likely continue, until all that's left are the giant (and expensive) mega-resorts like Vail.
I'm not at all one of those people who think that growth is good and we always need to grow. That's BS. But skiing- yeah, it's dying a slow death. Maybe that's hard to see at a big Epic resort, but lots of ski areas are struggling and this will only get worse as more people get out of skiing than get into it.
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04-19-2018, 05:14 PM #22Registered User
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If the industry wants growth, they should not make a profit on super-young kids taking lessons. Make it reasonable, it shouldn't be over 200 bucks for a day of skiing. Subsidize that shit and I will be spending more money in other ways at your resort, and It will pay off in the long run when you create life-long skiers. Also, a variety (or even just one choice) of group lessons would be nice, I can't understand why every big Utah resort doesn't have options for my four year old. Some do, most don't. Not doing a private lesson for $200+ for her instead.
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04-19-2018, 05:31 PM #23
population demographics. everyone's fleeing the rust belt for the south & west. that trend will continue and those feeder areas will continue to die. people who really care about skiing will move west and join the mob on I-70, I-80 or I-90 every weekend. The casual skiing population will continue to decline. Vail will follow it's vicious cycle casino mindset of raising prices on the "core" participants who have enough money they don't really care about the cost of the fix and the skiing population will eventually decline, perhaps precipitously when some external economic event occurs.
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04-19-2018, 06:00 PM #24Registered User
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I think Jeff Bezos should take over. That guy knows how to run a business.
"Some folks may have the luxury to hold out for “the perfect.” But a lot of Americans are hurting right now and they can’t wait for that." - Hillary Clinton
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04-19-2018, 06:44 PM #25Registered User
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Either spend hundreds of dollars for a day of skiing or spend $1,000 at the start of the season to keep costs down. (Pass, rental skis, gear). Why would someone who makes $10 an hour and has a passing interest in skiing ever want to do that? Some of you may have also forgotten but learning how to ski sucks. You are cold, you fall a lot, and never really feel in control. Your friends might have even ditched in a lesson by yourself.
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