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Thread: Growing the sport
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04-20-2018, 09:54 AM #26Chowder Lover
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This one has always confused me, I think it's pretty well accepted that if you start skiing at a young age you're more likely to stick with it throughout your life AND introduce your kids to it. Even drug dealers know that if you give away a little crack to the guy that's never had it that he'll be a customer for life. All kids love skiing, they'll make their less enthused parents take them if it's affordable. Tickets, lessons and equipment rentals for kids should be looked at as an investment, not a profit center. I think Breck was about $80 or $90 for a kids ticket this year, for a kid who's going to ski the bunny hill for 5 or 6 laps. WTF?
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04-20-2018, 10:03 AM #27Registered User
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04-20-2018, 10:44 AM #28
Actually, for ski resorts, there are not always opportunities for real estate development. Land near ski resorts is quite often very limited. Real estate used to be the model, but I believe that most resorts have turned toward a more sustainable model, ie a revenue stream that exceeds expenses on a regular basis (tickets, lessons, F&B).
Well, they all do this, it's just a question of whether they discount enough to make it work. For ex, my kid did a 3 lesson program this year, the cost was a very reasonable $330 total. Her tickets were free until recently. I think they probably figure that if you're willing to pay to put your own ass on the hill, you'll pay something for your kid too. Sure, it could be cheaper, and if you're not a local of a sort you don't have access to all the deals, but it's a question of degree, not whether they try to get the young skiers."fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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04-20-2018, 10:58 AM #29Rope->Dope
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The ski areas & resorts that can be day tripped from major metro areas will be fine.
The resorts that cater to the ultra rich will also be fine.
It's the feeder hills and small ski areas/resorts in remote areas that I would be concerned about.
Epic/IKON have devalued the lift ticket and are concentrating people at the same hills. Why go somewhere new like Eagle Point, Turner Mtn or Panorama when you get free days at Whistler or Jackson?
Silverton is so sick, but how many people are there a year, 5000? Not even a dent on the skiing scale.
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04-20-2018, 11:03 AM #30
Unfortunately, shuttered mom and pop hills AND increasing crowds at the remaining large resorts is consistent with an industry with low marginal costs and large/increasing fixed costs (insurance and snowmaking). Also consistent with this state of affairs: a decline in the overall size of the industry and higher prices for consumers.
Read NELSAP if you want some skiing history and a view into where/how the industry is shrinking.
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04-20-2018, 12:37 PM #31Banned
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04-21-2018, 09:33 AM #32
Nah, it's us younger folks that can't afford ski gear and lift tickets!
I feel like it's the post-college 20s- early 30s demographic that is getting shafted. I grew up skiing regularly, and lately only go 1-2/times a year - honestly the costs of most resorts is appalling to the point where I've almost lost complete interest in skiing.
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04-21-2018, 09:50 AM #33Registered User
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Locally the schools and the first nations all go to the hill which really helps the bottom line, in the past during exams the HS has rented the hill for the day ... babysitting
Also good for the bottom line have been A couple of movies, a TV segment, a commercial, right now they are shooting a Chinese language Everest movieLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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04-21-2018, 10:29 AM #34Registered User
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04-21-2018, 12:25 PM #35
20 years ago? Be realistic here.
... or maybe you are... where do you ski?
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04-21-2018, 12:40 PM #36Registered User
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Google Epic pass or Ikon pass. Both well under $1K. My first season pass to Vail/Beaver creek in the mid nineties (and no other mountains) was just over $1K. Now you can get a shitload more access for about $6-800.
Back in the day, we used to save up money in the summer to buy ski passes and gear for the upcoming season. It was Crazy! We got these things called "jobs", where you "work" and then every once in a while they give you money.
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04-21-2018, 01:48 PM #37
The one thing I want to grow in the sport is the amount of women that are out there.
Besides working with them, having more chicks hanging around make most anything better...lol
*When I’m partying...I want me some women!
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04-21-2018, 04:20 PM #38
FWIW, at least 50% of XC skiers around here are female. Also, XC ski financial barriers are much lower. Yeah, serious XC racers spend lots of $$ on gear, although racers comprise a small slice of XC skiers.
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04-21-2018, 04:34 PM #39
I fully agree with the drive to grow the sport. I mean, what size is the average ski now? 165cm? Maybe less with all the 150cm rental skis out there? I'd like that number to grow to at least 180, and 185 would be even better. Short skis and tight radii are really killing the mogul size. Some are so tight that you can span bumps with 191cm skis. Let's lead the charge, no more short skis!
(Sorry snowboarders, your shit is too short, too)
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04-21-2018, 05:33 PM #40
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04-21-2018, 09:46 PM #41
Considering I could get a college season pass for under $200 (about 8yrs ago though)... Also depends where you live. I was in the northeast for awhile and passes after college immediately jumped to well over $600-700 (although I think now some mountains do a 22-26 year old type pass) and the closest mountains all were/are pushing $90+ for a day lift ticket.
I hate the back in the day "jobs" and "work" bullshit argument. It's not that people don't "work" anymore, it's the general cost of living has gone up while entry level wages have remained the same, hence why a $600 season pass is a pretty significant financial commitment these days!Last edited by Groomer Gambler; 04-21-2018 at 10:10 PM.
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04-21-2018, 11:33 PM #42Registered User
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04-22-2018, 12:07 AM #43
Growing the sport
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04-22-2018, 12:51 AM #44
Brighton has a "millenial pass" (-$200 for 26-30yo)...obviously targeted to keep the aging youth engaged in the sport. And while it's now rather dated, the book "Downhill Slide" (p. 2002) touches on why the corporate conglomeration of resorts are bad for sustaining affordable skiing. Granted this was published well before the advent of the EpicIkonigrophy of season passes, it does serve as a reminder that the end game is quarterly profits for investors and not developing and sustaining middle income skiers (less than $100k annually). Intrawest 2.0 will likely follow the march towards Chapter 13.
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04-22-2018, 07:50 AM #45Registered User
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Definitely location dependent, I'll give you that. But I can still buy a pass to 1-2 local mountains for under $400. That's pretty cheap and cheaper than it was many years ago. I paid $650 for a Baker pass when I was totally broke 15 years ago. I guess it also comes down to priorities. $600-$700 for a whole season of skiing is totally reasonable. Pays for itself in 7 days.
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04-22-2018, 09:16 AM #46Registered User
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