AT Setup

[tyfattori]

I'm from Ohio so I ski resorts a lot all over but mainly out West. I usually always go out of my way to hike for fresh turns. I'm not spending my days going on full backcountry trips (yet at least) but I'm looking to put together an AT setup and before I go investing in it I wanted to get some opinions first. I'm a pretty aggressive skier, I go fast and like to hit jumps when they are there. I'm not in the park a whole lot unless I ride through it taking a groomer back down the mountain, I do ski switch sometimes. Only tricks I really do are 180's and 360's nothing crazy. I'm 5'7" and 175 lbs

What's a good way to go? The full frame AT bindings or tech bindings? I have Salomon X Pro boots so if I went full frame I could use my current alpine boot and not have to get new boots yet. I have a trip planned to Japan in January so I just want to figure it out before then. Would love to get some opinions on this before I make the jump. My boss is a huge skier and he kept telling me to check out the Marker Duke he thinks that would be a great fit for me. What do you guys think?

Thanks

[stuntmanbo]

For the binding you can get some Salomon Shifts next year, for the boots you could buy soles with tech inserts, it seems that they're compatible with the x pro.

https://www.salomon.com/fr/product/w...plus-pads.html

But then you won't have a walk mode so it won't be optimal for the uphill but it should work for really short hikes.

[gregL]

If you've read some of the other threads on this subject, and you should, you realize that every AT setup is a compromise.

The questions you should be asking, and which will be hard to answer without any touring experience, are not how aggressive you are but how adaptable you are as a skier, how much you expect to like touring, and how far/high you expect to go on your AT gear.

Your boss may be a huge skier, but if he's recommending the Duke without qualification for you, he's not a huge tourer.

[gregL]

What's a good way to go? I have a trip planned to Japan in January so I just want to figure it out before then.

Good luck. I was asking the same questions in 1999 and I'm still figuring it out.

[hutash]

Good luck. I was asking the same questions in 1999 and I'm still figuring it out.

This

We are all still trying to figure out the optimal touring set up (same for alpine for that matter.) Just when we think we have a handle on it new gear comes out and changes everything.

It all depends on what you really are going to do, and it is hard to know that until you do it. For side country, just using your alpin gear and suffering a bit on the boot pack is a realistic option. If you are going to actually tour, a dedicated touring set up, (ski, tech binding and boot) will make it much more enjoyable. The obvious place to start is to rent a few different set ups to see what works or what you intend to do.

The less obvious, and vastly more important point is to get back country/side country safe. People die out of bounds, so avi training and good mentoring is way more important then what binding you use.

[XXX-er]

What's a good way to go? The full frame AT bindings or tech bindings? I have Salomon X Pro boots so if I went full frame I could use my current alpine boot and not have to get new boots yet. I have a trip planned to Japan in January so I just want to figure it out before then. Would love to get some opinions on this before I make the jump. My boss is a huge skier and he kept telling me to check out the Marker Duke he thinks that would be a great fit for me. What do you guys think?

Thanks

well they work as advertised they also weigh a ton, so do your boots so do the alpine skis and all the clothes you wear for alpine which is nothing 5000$ can't fix

but get the duke or baron and some skins you can be touring for the least amount of money ... probably 600$ or less

I got a couple pair of Barons that came on used skis, but I have only toured on them once very briefly with 4 buckle overlap boots & the stuff I wear to alpine ski

which is how a lot of people first get into touring ... sweat like a dawg fucking heavy

[MultiVerse]

A beater alpine setup paired with a beater AT pin binding setup is better than the best do everything setup.

[Ottime]

My two cents.

Don’t worry about it too much for your first set up. I skied Dukes for years. If you are in shape, the weight is fine. Especially when you are just sorting out. But unless you ride a high DIN, there are better and slightly light frame options.

I would find a used frame binding and cheap skins. Start there.

Get Tremper’s book Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain and read it. Twice.

Doubt there is a class in Ohio, but look for an AAIRE I class to take prior to your trip.

Buy your beacon, shovel, probe and if you don’t have it - a pack that fits is all. I like my 30L for day trips.

If you find you really like to tour, and will do more than side country lift assisted trips, then start looking into tech bindings. Sounds like you hike plenty inbounds with that heavy alpine gear. Going a little further with it won’t kill you. I’ve have 4K days with Alpine boots, Dukes and On3p Wrens. It was a a lot to carry that far, but not impossible. OTOH, loved having that binding for hauling ass, skiing steeps hucking cliffs near resort or at road side attractions.

Start off spending as little money as possible. Once you dive in, it is easy to spend a lot of money on gear.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Good luck. I was asking the same questions in 1999 and I'm still figuring it out.

This needs a sticky

[margotron]

Start off spending as little money as possible. Once you dive in, it is easy to spend a lot of money on gear.

i recommend buying used gear and selling used gear. it's like demo'ing but cheaper and potentially free

[jacob_dbu]

i recommend buying used gear and selling used gear. it's like demo'ing but cheaper and potentially free

Let me say it's never free, but it sure is fun!

[3PinGrin]

What, they don't tele in Ohio? There's your answer, get on it!

Joking aside, you do not sound like a good candidate for tech bindings. X2 on ottime's avy advice. Much more important than what bindings you are on.

[tyfattori]

I appreciate everyone who took the time to read and reply to my question, i'm taking everything I read into consideration. I'm not huge into touring right now and I don't live out West yet so I'm going to eliminate tech bindings completely and focus on frame it just seems like it makes sense especially considering i'm not made out of money.

My two cents.

Don’t worry about it too much for your first set up. I skied Dukes for years. If you are in shape, the weight is fine. Especially when you are just sorting out. But unless you ride a high DIN, there are better and slightly light frame options.

I would find a used frame binding and cheap skins. Start there.

Get Tremper’s book Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain and read it. Twice.

Doubt there is a class in Ohio, but look for an AAIRE I class to take prior to your trip.

Buy your beacon, shovel, probe and if you don’t have it - a pack that fits is all. I like my 30L for day trips.

If you find you really like to tour, and will do more than side country lift assisted trips, then start looking into tech bindings. Sounds like you hike plenty inbounds with that heavy alpine gear. Going a little further with it won’t kill you. I’ve have 4K days with Alpine boots, Dukes and On3p Wrens. It was a a lot to carry that far, but not impossible. OTOH, loved having that binding for hauling ass, skiing steeps hucking cliffs near resort or at road side attractions.

Start off spending as little money as possible. Once you dive in, it is easy to spend a lot of money on gear.

We don't have any AAIRE I classes in Ohio but I will grab that book and read it twice. Also I'll get my backcountry pack ready as well, I was considering renting the equipment in Japan but I'm sure i'll use it down the road in the US also so I figure I might as well just put the money into getting my own gear it'll pay for itself eventually.

I'm in pretty good shape so carrying the little bit of extra weight when needed won't kill me. I do like to work when I ski so I'm not trying to sound like a lazy bastard lol but when I come across a long ass traverse I wouldn't mind using the Duke or a frame binding instead of ice skating and pushing my way with my poles along the whole traverse. I do plan on using them going uphill as well.

If anybody has any other input I'm open to hear it, I'm going to wait a couple days and do some more research before I make an actual decision.

[tyfattori]

My two cents.

Don’t worry about it too much for your first set up. I skied Dukes for years. If you are in shape, the weight is fine. Especially when you are just sorting out. But unless you ride a high DIN, there are better and slightly light frame options.

I would find a used frame binding and cheap skins. Start there.

Get Tremper’s book Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain and read it. Twice.

Doubt there is a class in Ohio, but look for an AAIRE I class to take prior to your trip.

Buy your beacon, shovel, probe and if you don’t have it - a pack that fits is all. I like my 30L for day trips.

If you find you really like to tour, and will do more than side country lift assisted trips, then start looking into tech bindings. Sounds like you hike plenty inbounds with that heavy alpine gear. Going a little further with it won’t kill you. I’ve have 4K days with Alpine boots, Dukes and On3p Wrens. It was a a lot to carry that far, but not impossible. OTOH, loved having that binding for hauling ass, skiing steeps hucking cliffs near resort or at road side attractions.

Start off spending as little money as possible. Once you dive in, it is easy to spend a lot of money on gear.

Also I ski a 6 DIN so should I look at other options like the Baron or even the F12 Tour EPF?

[Ottime]

Yes. I’d buy what ever frame binding you can find cheap and leave it at that.

You would want really long flats (like a mile) to bother transitioning to skins. Or really thick or deep snow. On a firm pack it is just easier to skate. I’ve even done slight uphill spring approaches skating on the morning ice. For the most part, skinning sucks on flats. Worse on downhills. You really want to be always going up. I find 20 degrees or so the easiest skin.

If you know someone else nearby who has a beacon, you can get together and practice searches. Put the transmitting beacon in a bag, go to a park, if there is snow, walk all over it, and take turns burying or hiding the transmitter. Then do a search. Again and again. It is good to really know how to use your beacon. In an emergency, you want to have that part in muscle memory.

The biggest take away from AIREE I, IMO, is terrain selection. But you can get a lot out of a class. Several resorts out west offer classes on mountain. I know they do at Kirkwood. I took my at the community college in Tahoe. Maybe consider finding one you could get out to prior to Japan.

Who will your partner(s) be in Japan? How are they preparing? Are they experienced BC users? Do you plan to hire guides?

You are starting to look at the right time for equipment. I’d watch gear swap here as we move into spring. Check retailers in early summer for big sales on last season’s equipment

[margotron]

Let me say it's never free, but it sure is fun!

haha fine. but i tell myself it is

[JPaul]

Also I ski a 6 DIN so should I look at other options like the Baron or even the F12 Tour EPF?

Definitely, if not for just the weight savings alone.

Depending on the year/frame design, this chart claims you save ~200g/foot going from Duke to Baron, and *another* 200g/foot going from Baron to F12:
https://www.evo.com/guides/alpine-an...inding-weights

FWIW, I weight much more than you (range 200-220) and have been skiing Barons with good luck for 7 years, including inbounds on my daily drivers.

Also, lots of good advice above, and by doing a simple search. Regarding buying your Avvy gear, shovel/pack/probe rather than rent -> I'd recommend starting with getting your own beacon first and getting to know it very well.

Good luck!
Paul

[tyfattori]

Yes. I’d buy what ever frame binding you can find cheap and leave it at that.

You would want really long flats (like a mile) to bother transitioning to skins. Or really thick or deep snow. On a firm pack it is just easier to skate. I’ve even done slight uphill spring approaches skating on the morning ice. For the most part, skinning sucks on flats. Worse on downhills. You really want to be always going up. I find 20 degrees or so the easiest skin.

If you know someone else nearby who has a beacon, you can get together and practice searches. Put the transmitting beacon in a bag, go to a park, if there is snow, walk all over it, and take turns burying or hiding the transmitter. Then do a search. Again and again. It is good to really know how to use your beacon. In an emergency, you want to have that part in muscle memory.

The biggest take away from AIREE I, IMO, is terrain selection. But you can get a lot out of a class. Several resorts out west offer classes on mountain. I know they do at Kirkwood. I took my at the community college in Tahoe. Maybe consider finding one you could get out to prior to Japan.

Who will your partner(s) be in Japan? How are they preparing? Are they experienced BC users? Do you plan to hire guides?

You are starting to look at the right time for equipment. I’d watch gear swap here as we move into spring. Check retailers in early summer for big sales on last season’s equipment

Thanks a lot for taking the time to explain everything I really appreciate it. Right now it’s just myself and my boss but we will be with an expierenced guide. I can’t think of the name of the company right now but they have really good reviews on powderhounds. It’s not a luxurious guided trip just something I can afford and something that makes me feel comfortable my first time going out there. I’m going to ask around and see if any of my buddies have a beacon if not I’ll check gear swap and eBay.

[tyfattori]

Definitely, if not for just the weight savings alone.

Depending on the year/frame design, this chart claims you save ~200g/foot going from Duke to Baron, and *another* 200g/foot going from Baron to F12:
https://www.evo.com/guides/alpine-an...inding-weights

FWIW, I weight much more than you (range 200-220) and have been skiing Barons with good luck for 7 years, including inbounds on my daily drivers.

Also, lots of good advice above, and by doing a simple search. Regarding buying your Avvy gear, shovel/pack/probe rather than rent -> I'd recommend starting with getting your own beacon first and getting to know it very well.

Good luck!
Paul

Paul, how do you like the Barons if you don’t mind me asking. I know you said you’ve been skiing them with good luck for 7 years but performance wise what’s your opinion? Have you tried any others? How was the transition from a normal alpine binding to frame? And do you think there is any downhill disadvantages or disadvantages in general compared to an alpine binding? Anybody feel free to answer the above questions as well. Trying to get in depth as possible, I know other threads are out there regarding this but I couldn’t find a ton so hopefully this helps put anyone else that’s in the same boat as me.

[kalisto]

I'm 5' 10"… 175 lbs. Put.... no idea. a ton of days (probably 250+ over the years) on a pair of Barons on my daily drivers (ehps) skiing Whistler inbounds, and tons of slackcoutry as well. They are now a little sloppy, but still skiiable.

As for performance. they are fine. I got that setup in 2009 I think.... have since gone pin binders, but for smashing inbounds and have the ability to go for a walk they are great. Never really had release issues, solid enough to beat the shit out of.

For your size, I'd have no problems going barons, I'd even consider the FT line if you're not hucking yourself all over the place. Weight is definitely a little nicer for walking.

If you're made of money. get salomon shifts and tech soles for your boots.

else. keep boots as is and get FT12 or barons.

[ciki62]

When I was young I think that weight of ski binding boot is not important. When i started ski touring I have cheap K2 waybacks with Dynafit tech. Not a nice skiing.

Now i ‘upgrade’ to carbon light skis mythic with atk and katana with Tecton. And what is most important for me I discover full alpine FreeRide ski boot with ski touring option. It is Lange Xt freetour with tech inserts. So now I enjoy light tech bindings with full power ski and boot. No compromise resort or FreeRide skiing with ski touring possibilities. For me all time best option.

So I highly do not recommend to invest any cent to heavy frame binding. Now when there is opening market with great ‘hybrid’ ski boots. Lange Fisher Nordica ...

Go with Tecton. Kingpin or new shift and buy new pair of fluorescent green ski boots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gregL]

I have Salomon X Pro boots so if I went full frame I could use my current alpine boot and not have to get new boots yet.

A frame binding will work if you are super fit or your partners really slow, only really tour a few times a season, or only plan to own one pair of skis. You can also probably find some cheap. The X Pros, on the other hand, will not seem like such a good idea after 20 minutes of skinning . . . get something with a walk mode.

[PNWbrit]

Paul, how do you like the Barons if you don’t mind me asking. I know you said you’ve been skiing them with good luck for 7 years but performance wise what’s your opinion? Have you tried any others? How was the transition from a normal alpine binding to frame? And do you think there is any downhill disadvantages or disadvantages in general compared to an alpine binding? Anybody feel free to answer the above questions as well. Trying to get in depth as possible, I know other threads are out there regarding this but I couldn’t find a ton so hopefully this helps put anyone else that’s in the same boat as me.

They are fine. other than increased stack height you won't notice any difference from a regular alpine binding.

Save some money and go with Barons or FT12s.... both will be more than enough for your needs.

And there is a search function. All this stuff has been covered many, many times.

get something with a walk mode.

^ this.

[GeezerSteve]

Yeah, #1 get a boot with walk mode, best with tech fittings for future use. FTR, I grew up in Ohio, moved west 38 years ago, never looked back and I've toured thousands of days. It is possible for a Buckeye to become a ski tourist

[El Chupacabra]

Agree on ottime's suggestion of whatever frame binding you can buy for cheap - other than old Fritschi Freeride, or any Naxo. Stick with a Duke, Baron, F10/12, Guardian, or whatever that Tyrolia Aaaaatack one is called. And stay out of the park when skiing that binding.

Summer is coming, deals will abound. Buy something used.