AT Setup

[hutash]

I have been skiing Barons Simon and off for years. They are adequate at best. The ski okay, but the stack height sucks. They tour like shit and are heavy, but for occasional touring they are tolerable. I cared a pair to the top of Shasta at 14,000' (and bought tech binding as soon as I got home.) They are an okay starter binding, buy there are much better options these days.

Also, check you DIN settings. If you are as good and as big as you claim, 6 seems awfully low. I am an old, skinny whimp and ski at 8.

[XXX-er]

well thats ^^ nothing 5000$ can't fix but in everyone of these newby "what touring gear" threads

whom is going to spend that kind of $$$$ ?

[blackalps]

Also, check you DIN settings. If you are as good and as big as you claim, 6 seems awfully low. I am an old, skinny whimp and ski at 8.

i was thinking this as well. I'm a decent skier at best and do some jumps and small drops < 10' and ski mine at 8 or I pop out of the bindings when I land.

[blackalps]

I'm sort of having this conundrum as well, but on the other end. I dont want or need my inbounds setup to do AT duty. But I climb a lot of 14ers and want to do some skimo, but still be able to do fun bc lap days. I don't want to either have my skimo days be sufferfests carrying a heavy duty setup up 5500 ft elevation gain or deal with my large 205 pound ass flexing the shit out of some skimo boots on downhill focused days, but I can't really afford 3 separate setups.

[JPaul]

Paul, how do you like the Barons if you don’t mind me asking. I know you said you’ve been skiing them with good luck for 7 years but performance wise what’s your opinion? Have you tried any others? How was the transition from a normal alpine binding to frame? And do you think there is any downhill disadvantages or disadvantages in general compared to an alpine binding?

Ty,

I really like my Barons -> I grew up bootpacking New England before they had snow, so can confirm a frame binding is a huge upgrade to hiking/carrying skis! Heavier and clunkier stride than a pin/tech binding, but huge improvement in touring over non-touring bindings.

Covered nicely already, but my experience is similar to those above that saw minimal impact on downhill performance (Barons are now my resort DD), and no noticeable adjustment time to frame bindings*. I also don't have a problem going back and forth between my Barons & Pivots (big difference in stack height) -> the skis they sit on are the difference I notice/reason I choose one over the other.

Have not tried any other frame bindings to compare, but have moved to using pin bindings for touring, so my Barons have remained locked down for a couple years. Still recommend frames for people just starting/dabbling and, depending on the parameters of your Japan trip, seems like a frame binding is a good candidate.

The way I understand calendars and Ohio weather, you're not going to get much time in Japan-like conditions on any new gear before the trip, so at least with a frame binding you'll be confident that you get along with how they work on the downhill part. Aside from that, getting a walk-mode boot would be nice, and focusing on fitness over gear in the meantime will make a much bigger impact on your experience than debating pin vs. frame.

Good luck!


-----Possible future old wives' tale warning-----

* Scienticiously speaking, when I got my Barons, I went from a 68mm-waisted daily driver to 101mm, but still using my same old psoriatic arthritis-addled ankles. I was worried about both the stack height and ski width changes' effects on my joints. In the end, I think that the two changes offset each other so I didn't have any additional joint issues (draw the FBD/study it out). This only matters to you as a way of saying don't be afraid of the additional stack height of a frame binding, especially if you are putting them on wider skis as I am guessing (hoping!) that you will for your Japan trip

[gregL]

I'm sort of having this conundrum as well, but on the other end. I dont want or need my inbounds setup to do AT duty. But I climb a lot of 14ers and want to do some skimo, but still be able to do fun bc lap days. I don't want to either have my skimo days be sufferfests carrying a heavy duty setup up 5500 ft elevation gain or deal with my large 205 pound ass flexing the shit out of some skimo boots on downhill focused days, but I can't really afford 3 separate setups.

Then get 2 separate setups. Skiing 14'ers and skimo demand a different setup (IMO, ski and boot < 1200 grams/per, binding < 400 grams per) than fun BC laps (IMO, ski and boot < 1600 grams, binding < 800 grams). If you can't adjust to the way a 1200 gram boot skis, up the weight 200 grams (still not that many options) and drink one less beer a night.

[tyfattori]

I have been skiing Barons Simon and off for years. They are adequate at best. The ski okay, but the stack height sucks. They tour like shit and are heavy, but for occasional touring they are tolerable. I cared a pair to the top of Shasta at 14,000' (and bought tech binding as soon as I got home.) They are an okay starter binding, buy there are much better options these days.

Also, check you DIN settings. If you are as good and as big as you claim, 6 seems awfully low. I am an old, skinny whimp and ski at 8.

I just recently got ON3P Kartel 108's and had my bindings remounted here in Ohio at Fertyl Aster so I'm not sure if they changed the DIN. Before when they were mounted on my previous set of skies I had them mounted at A Basin and I told him my style of skiing and never asked or looked to see what the DIN was set at. I've never had any release issues though to be honest with you. None hitting jumps in the park, dropping off cornices, no problems skiing moguls or going down chutes or couloirs. I'm actually about to go check again and make sure i'm not seeing things lol

I'm thinking about just saving a little money and waiting for the Salomon Shifts to come out especially if they ski like an actual alpine binding. I need to do more research and watch some videos/reviews or at least wait for them to come out. If I don't like them I'm sure I could resell them and make most of my money back at least and I could just get the tech soles to put on my boots I won't have to buy new boots either way. It's a tough decision especially with no snow around here anymore to try them out. I'm going to do more research on the barons and tour bindings also from Marker. They all seem like good options now considering what everyone is telling me but I'm actually really intrigued by the Salomon Shifts if they're less bulky and heavy than a frame binding and they ski solid then that seems like the way to go. I know they're not out yet so I need to wait before I can make any kind of decision on them until I can read some feedback about them. Until then I'm gonna focus on avalance/slide safety and keep researching more here about different setups. I appreciate all the feedback from everyone it's really helpful.

[tyfattori]

Ty,

I really like my Barons -> I grew up bootpacking New England before they had snow, so can confirm a frame binding is a huge upgrade to hiking/carrying skis! Heavier and clunkier stride than a pin/tech binding, but huge improvement in touring over non-touring bindings.

Covered nicely already, but my experience is similar to those above that saw minimal impact on downhill performance (Barons are now my resort DD), and no noticeable adjustment time to frame bindings*. I also don't have a problem going back and forth between my Barons & Pivots (big difference in stack height) -> the skis they sit on are the difference I notice/reason I choose one over the other.

Have not tried any other frame bindings to compare, but have moved to using pin bindings for touring, so my Barons have remained locked down for a couple years. Still recommend frames for people just starting/dabbling and, depending on the parameters of your Japan trip, seems like a frame binding is a good candidate.

The way I understand calendars and Ohio weather, you're not going to get much time in Japan-like conditions on any new gear before the trip, so at least with a frame binding you'll be confident that you get along with how they work on the downhill part. Aside from that, getting a walk-mode boot would be nice, and focusing on fitness over gear in the meantime will make a much bigger impact on your experience than debating pin vs. frame.

Good luck!


-----Possible future old wives' tale warning-----

* Scienticiously speaking, when I got my Barons, I went from a 68mm-waisted daily driver to 101mm, but still using my same old psoriatic arthritis-addled ankles. I was worried about both the stack height and ski width changes' effects on my joints. In the end, I think that the two changes offset each other so I didn't have any additional joint issues (draw the FBD/study it out). This only matters to you as a way of saying don't be afraid of the additional stack height of a frame binding, especially if you are putting them on wider skis as I am guessing (hoping!) that you will for your Japan trip

JPaul thanks a lot for the advice. I was worried about the additional stack heights thats why I was considering maybe just waiting for the Shifts to release. Getting new gear or venturing into something new is always so hard lol so much to learn and so much different gear to choose from let alone all the different opinions everybody has. I'm thankful for this forum for helping me make a good decision and stopping me from just going out and buying tech bindings and new boots and spending $1500+

I just got some ON3P Kartel 108's not long ago I didn't even get to ski them this season due to being so slammed at work towards the end of the season. I was skiing my Blizzard Bonafides before that but I wanted something wider and more playful. What I'm reading though now is that for deep pow like in Japan I should have a 110 minimum.

[tyfattori]

Then get 2 separate setups. Skiing 14'ers and skimo demand a different setup (IMO, ski and boot < 1200 grams/per, binding < 400 grams per) than fun BC laps (IMO, ski and boot < 1600 grams, binding < 800 grams). If you can't adjust to the way a 1200 gram boot skis, up the weight 200 grams (still not that many options) and drink one less beer a night.

I know you were speaking to nomad_games but I don't skimo yet so a separate touring setup for me is out of the question if anything I would need to do a powder setup with the frame bindings i'm considering getting or the Salomon Shifts when they come out and the tech soles to put on my boots and throwing them on some ON3P cease and desists or something of that sort. Right now I have the Kartel 108's

[tyfattori]

well thats ^^ nothing 5000$ can't fix but in everyone of these newby "what touring gear" threads

whom is going to spend that kind of $$$$ ?

At the moment I would rather buy used gear and spend the rest of that money on an epic ski trip! Lol

[tyfattori]

Also I just checked again to make sure and my DIN is at a 6 which seems ridiculous to me I'm thinking the ski shop here in Ohio that remounted my bindings on my new skis didn't know what they were doing or they changed it without knowing or put it at a default number and figured I would change it. Honestly I don't know what to think but I'm going to put it at a 8 or 9 which is probably what they were at when I had them mounted at A Basin originally on my old skis.

[tyfattori]

Agree on ottime's suggestion of whatever frame binding you can buy for cheap - other than old Fritschi Freeride, or any Naxo. Stick with a Duke, Baron, F10/12, Guardian, or whatever that Tyrolia Aaaaatack one is called. And stay out of the park when skiing that binding.

Summer is coming, deals will abound. Buy something used.

I'm definitely considering doing this and most likely will but if the Salomon Shift turns out to be as promising as it seems would that be a good option with the tech soles on my current boots or should I just stick to a full frame like you mentioned above?

And sorry for all the posts I just realized I should have quoted everyone and responded in one post I will do that from now on.

[gregL]

. . . I could just get the tech soles to put on my boots I won't have to buy new boots either way . . .

Go back to page 2 and read the comments about the X Pro's suitability for touring.

[El Chupacabra]

I'm definitely considering doing this and most likely will but if the Salomon Shift turns out to be as promising as it seems would that be a good option with the tech soles on my current boots or should I just stick to a full frame like you mentioned above?

And sorry for all the posts I just realized I should have quoted everyone and responded in one post I will do that from now on.

Well, with ottime and I (and others) recommend, you could buy a frame binding + ski (used, already mounted) here for $400 or less, and be done. Or you could wait, and buy Salomon's $1000 first year model convertible touring/alpine binding made mostly of plastic, and then mount it on some skis.

[XXX-er]

At the moment I would rather buy used gear and spend the rest of that money on an epic ski trip! Lol

except there are a number of yabuts

yabut you didnt say much about what you had planned, just asked some questions about Dukes

yabut do you have boots with tech fittings if not you are stuck with a frame binding Baron/Duke/ the Amer brands so in fact yer buddy was probably right unless you were gona spend $$$$

yabut do you know what you are buying, I buy almost all of it used myself but I am a gearslut and know shit

[tyfattori]

Go back to page 2 and read the comments about the X Pro's suitability for touring.

Yeah I read I’ll hate them and to get a boot with walk mode sorry I didn’t see that until now.

[tyfattori]

Well, with ottime and I (and others) recommend, you could buy a frame binding + ski (used, already mounted) here for $400 or less, and be done. Or you could wait, and buy Salomon's $1000 first year model convertible touring/alpine binding made mostly of plastic, and then mount it on some skis.

Got you I’ll stick to a frame binding and get it all used and go from there.

[XXX-er]

If you happen to be buying a used frame binding remember all frame binding come in different sizes depending on the BSL of your boot which is stamped on the bottom ... important shit to know

[tyfattori]

I'm going to go with a used frame binding for sure. I did read that actually while doing some research but thank you for confirming that.

[XXX-er]

I got my son into his 1st BC setup from 800kms away, I think he spent about 1500can$

using texts I sent him to a few dealers I had googled to try on Maestrale/Zero G guide pro/ Lang until he found the best boot for HIS foot ... the ZeroG guide pro

I found him a used 2 yr old rossi super 7 / rad1/ skin setup on MEC used gear site for about 800

which is the going fall price for a good used BC setup in BC

this time of year knock off 150$

we did our 1st father/son BC trip last feb and it all worked prefectly .

[Ottime]

A frame binding will work if you are super fit or your partners really slow, only really tour a few times a season, or only plan to own one pair of skis. You can also probably find some cheap. The X Pros, on the other hand, will not seem like such a good idea after 20 minutes of skinning . . . get something with a walk mode.

I don’t know the X pros, but I skied in a full alpine boot (Solly Gun) for several years with no big issue. It is not a super stiff boot, but I would just in latch the top buckles and loosen the power strap.

If you are going to buy new boots for touring, the. I’d. It bother with frame bindings.

Either inserts or plates to switch from
Alpine to pin bindings. Or two sets of skis

But what I’d do is buy the used frame binding, and go to Japan. Don’t worry too much about the boot. See if you like touring. If you do, tour again some time. If you find you want to do it more often, start investing in the gear you want. Boots with walk mode and tech inserts (eventually, we all go to pins). Sounds like Shift will be good for you, once they work out the kinks.

Or you could rent skis and skins in Japan. I assume. And get something fat.

But as el chup pointed out, you could get powder skis mounted with frame bindings in here for about $400 and be done with it for now.

[tyfattori]

I don’t know the X pros, but I skied in a full alpine boot (Solly Gun) for several years with no big issue. It is not a super stiff boot, but I would just in latch the top buckles and loosen the power strap.

If you are going to buy new boots for touring, the. I’d. It bother with frame bindings.

Either inserts or plates to switch from
Alpine to pin bindings. Or two sets of skis

But what I’d do is buy the used frame binding, and go to Japan. Don’t worry too much about the boot. See if you like touring. If you do, tour again some time. If you find you want to do it more often, start investing in the gear you want. Boots with walk mode and tech inserts (eventually, we all go to pins). Sounds like Shift will be good for you, once they work out the kinks.

Or you could rent skis and skins in Japan. I assume. And get something fat.

But as el chup pointed out, you could get powder skis mounted with frame bindings in here for about $400 and be done with it for now.

This actually sounds like a better idea. I'm going to look for a used frame binding and forget new boots for now. I'm going to keep my eye out on here for a powder setup with frame bindings or just frame bindings, ski them for a season and go from there.

[LeeLau]

Useful actionable advice from TGR and someone who's taking the advice? Nice to see

[rocca]

OP - I just pulled some large barons if your bsl will work. Older model in good shape with 130 brakes. Might have some smaller brakes somewhere too. Shoot me a pm if you're interested. I'll let them go cheap.

[XXX-er]

the time to buy used stuff is right NOW I seen a really nice set of lotus 120 for 150$ less than I would have payed 6 months ago ... but I already have 2 pair

Useful actionable advice from TGR and someone who's taking the advice? Nice to see

and on that note I advise you to buy those lotus 120's,

like Ross sez ... slarve not carve !