Crossover binding technology

[SkiLyft]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/c...ports-design#/

Anyone know the designers?

Would anyone ditch their inserts for it?


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[skimaxpower]

Seems clever. Boot prevents bindings from coming off the ski. I would be concerned about losing a binding piece in the snow during a nasty wreck.

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

Idea is floating in the air for a long time now. This looks quite similar to CAST toes. But from the video it looks like they are planning to use plastic with titanium needle-thick lock? good luck.

[SkiLyft]

Yeah my concern is for the fiddle factor... I absolutely hate frame binders for that reason even small amounts of play are noticeable. Hadn't thought of yard sale type crashes. hmm

[SkiLyft]

I actually wrote them and got a reply..
"Great question! We have what are called “positive stops” at the front of the toe and rear of the heel. The stops provide a wall so that you can’t move forward or backwards and securely locking you into place. "

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

I mean, my greatest concern is not fiddling, but the whole concept of how binding is attached to those plates. Some guys are torning heels and toes from the skis, while binding parts are attached 1cm deep straight to the ski core with screws. And they are saying this ~5mm plates can hold at least at the same level? I'm very skeptical about how this adapter can hold vertical power.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

I like it. A lot.

I like the pricing too.

I don't like the idea of having to try to get by with only one brake width. Of course this really only afffects pivot users as other brakes are much simpler to swap but then this becomes more of a task to just swap out bindings than it seems.

[geo039]

Idea is floating in the air for a long time now. This looks quite similar to CAST toes. But from the video it looks like they are planning to use plastic with titanium needle-thick lock? good luck.

Wait plastic?

[FlimFlamvanHam]

Wait plastic?

My take is they are not idiots, I will never register for facebook so cannot log on to comment and cannot find a way of contacting these guys. Maybe someone can ask why they chose the nylon over aluminum and point out that it might be in their best interest to advise why they chose that material on their indiegogo page.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Nice idea. I worry that it's under built. I'll let you all test them out.

[Andyski]

Come on. At least one other person thought of this....

[FlimFlamvanHam]

I mean, my greatest concern is not fiddling, but the whole concept of how binding is attached to those plates. Some guys are torning heels and toes from the skis, while binding parts are attached 1cm deep straight to the ski core with screws. And they are saying this ~5mm plates can hold at least at the same level? I'm very skeptical about how this adapter can hold vertical power.

The only bindings ripping out of skis are bindings mounted to skis with an "under engineered" mounting area (soft wood etc) or a shitty job mounting. If you watch the vid, the interface looks really good. I have no affiliation with these guys, btw. The anchors are very wide relative to the base holes. The base plate might be 5mm thick but the anchors, I am sure, are much stronger than 9mm of screw into wood. Why these guys are not addressing the obvious objections in their copy is beyond me.

I am also totally fine with the use of nylon for the base plates. If a frozen puck going 100mph (that can break bones under padding or within a skate boot) can bounce off the thin plastic blade holders on 10 year old Bauers or be withstood repeatedly by the less than 4mm thick boards of a rink then I am more than ok with "plastic".

Nice idea. I worry that it's under built. I'll let you all test them out.

Yeah, surely early adopters, if it gets off the ground, will work out the issues.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

If a frozen puck going 100mph (that can break bones under padding or within a skate boot) can bounce off the thin plastic blade holders on 10 year old Bauers or be withstood repeatedly by the less than 4mm thick boards of a rink then I am more than ok with "plastic".

That's pretty darn irrelevant. There have been more than a few bindings that have been prone to developing slop with heavy use. That's my concern.

[margotron]

The only bindings ripping out of skis are bindings mounted to skis with an "under engineered" mounting area (soft wood etc) or a shitty job mounting. If you watch the vid, the interface looks really good. I have no affiliation with these guys, btw. The anchors are very wide relative to the base holes. The base plate might be 5mm thick but the anchors, I am sure, are much stronger than 9mm of screw into wood. Why these guys are not addressing the obvious objections in their copy is beyond me.

I am also totally fine with the use of nylon for the base plates. If a frozen puck going 100mph (that can break bones under padding or within a skate boot) can bounce off the thin plastic blade holders on 10 year old Bauers or be withstood repeatedly by the less than 4mm thick boards of a rink then I am more than ok with "plastic".



Yeah, surely early adopters, if it gets off the ground, will work out the issues.

Good points. Plastic can have incredible properties. Just choose the right one. No different than steel - there is shitty steel and excellent steel, brittle steel and malleable steel. Pick the right additional polymers for your use.

I'm good with my inserts. Would rather screw 8 screws in than the stack height, personally.

That's pretty darn irrelevant. There have been more than a few bindings that have been prone to developing slop with heavy use. That's my concern.

I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. It points out (at least I thought) that if they choose the right plastic, it may not develop slop.

edit: btw black -- you sell those insert tools? and got any inserts left? I'm still looking!

[XavierD]

I’m not sure I trust anyone putting pivots on Helios.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. It points out (at least I thought) that if they choose the right plastic, it may not develop slop.

Not really. Unless you intend to unleash a bunch of slap shots on your skis and the binding doohickeys are made of the same plastic as the hockey doohickeys.

There are excellent bindings that make liberal use of plastic. And there are bindings prone to failure that are made a plastic, as well as steel and aluminum. When Salomon, Marker, Dynafit, ATK and have made bindings with notable failure modes, why should we trust these guys to get it right on the first try? Barring extensive testing, which seems unlikely in this scenario, I'll take a solid hunk of aluminum over a hunk of nylon.

[SkiLyft]

Forwarded on some questions to the gents over there... here is their response.

"To let you in on some knowledge - Glass filled nylon is a standard material that all manufacturers use and is proven to resist warp under intense pressure and temperature changes. Also, GFN is a great way to maintain the feel and flex of the ski. Aluminum is stiff and prevents the feel characteristics of the ski and it also transfers chatter.

Once again, no skin in the game just wanted to see what others thought on the product.

[MultiVerse]

I’m not sure I trust anyone putting pivots on Helios.

A "wait, what?" moment for me too.

[GPP33]

I mean, my greatest concern is not fiddling, but the whole concept of how binding is attached to those plates. Some guys are torning heels and toes from the skis, while binding parts are attached 1cm deep straight to the ski core with screws. And they are saying this ~5mm plates can hold at least at the same level? I'm very skeptical about how this adapter can hold vertical power.

I'd trust 5mm of steel thread engagement over 10mm of wood thread engagement any day.

It actually looks like a great design, I like the use of plastic over aluminum, the proper polymer will be more than strong enough and will resist wear/denting/plastic deformation much better than aluminum. Stainless steel screws attaching the binding to the lock things, stainless steel cores in the lock things, polymer to polymer sliding interfaces, 5 screws holding each plate to the ski, sounds like a well thought out design that addresses most of the potential pitfalls. My only concern would be losing a toe or heel piece, they have a lock feature but will it be enough when you're skis hit each other after a release? The chances of taking a hit that could dislodge it are probably low but I ain't gonna help you dig for a toe piece when there's powder to be skied. I'd like to see a better lock mechanism

Would I ditch my inserts for them? Nah, I use inserts mostly to switch binding types (tech/tele/alpine) so these won't work.

[Crossover_ski]

Hi everyone, Crossover team here.

We wanted to hop on and provide some clarity for some of the questions on this thread. We know this is a new product (not a new concept) and will be as transparent and open as we can.

The plates — made of glass filled nylon (GFN). GFN is an industry standard material that you can find in many of the alpine bindings used today. Marker, Rossignol, Salomon. You can find this marking on the bottom of the bindings ex: GFN 33, GFN 35, GFN 45, etc. This material also allows for optimal flex and feel of the original ski. Metal plates tend to be brittle, transfer chatter and are stiff, reducing the manufacturers flex profile of whatever ski you choose to use.

Size — the total thickness of the plate is actually 5.25mm thick. The height of three stacked quarters.

Lock nuts — the lock nuts are solid, milled aluminum to reduce weight and resist any corrosion.

Mounting - We use standard binding mount lag screws that are 13mm thick to secure the plate to the ski so that engagement into the base is as secure as a normal binding mount.

Security of binding — underneath the plate is a 2.3mm titanium rod and retention button. This retention system, combined with the custom lock nuts, provide a strong interface for securely locking your binding into place in event of ejection or even, walking around town with your skis.

We are in the process of under going official technical testing specifications and will provide results as soon as we can.

Thanks for the great questions. Please continue to ask away so we can provide you all with as much information as possible.

[grinch]

Not sure how ez it is to swap brakes on Solomon shifts but that could be good for shifts and tectons as well. Maybe mount the plates with inserts to have alpine plates and touring plates

[GPP33]

Hi everyone, Crossover team here.

We wanted to hop on and provide some clarity for some of the questions on this thread. We know this is a new product (not a new concept) and will be as transparent and open as we can.

The plates — made of glass filled nylon (GFN). GFN is an industry standard material that you can find in many of the alpine bindings used today. Marker, Rossignol, Salomon. You can find this marking on the bottom of the bindings ex: GFN 33, GFN 35, GFN 45, etc. This material also allows for optimal flex and feel of the original ski. Metal plates tend to be brittle, transfer chatter and are stiff, reducing the manufacturers flex profile of whatever ski you choose to use.

Size — the total thickness of the plate is actually 5.25mm thick. The height of three stacked quarters.

Lock nuts — the lock nuts are solid, milled aluminum to reduce weight and resist any corrosion.

Mounting - We use standard binding mount lag screws that are 13mm thick to secure the plate to the ski so that engagement into the base is as secure as a normal binding mount.

Security of binding — underneath the plate is a 2.3mm titanium rod and retention button. This retention system, combined with the custom lock nuts, provide a strong interface for securely locking your binding into place in event of ejection or even, walking around town with your skis.

We are in the process of under going official technical testing specifications and will provide results as soon as we can.

Thanks for the great questions. Please continue to ask away so we can provide you all with as much information as possible.

Thanks for chiming in a providing some clarification. What specs are you testing? It should be pretty easy to mount em up and rip the binding from the ski to see if the plate rips out of the ski or the crossover connection fails first (maybe you have done this?). That should put the concerns of plastic and 5mm thread engagement to rest.

[dcpnz]

I’m conflicted on the benefits of this.

Seems the air travel angle could be somewhat compelling, easier to pack, take couple of different skis etc.

But in my mind perhaps a bigger benefit of removable binding plates is to run two bindings on a single ski and the system seems to fail in this regard by requiring specific plates for a binding. I.e. can’t setup for alpine and tecton on the same ski.

As others point out brake width is an issue. I just don’t think I’m particularly likely to want to swap skis of similar width. And its not just pivots though, sth2 is not a quick and easy brake swap (requires completely unwinding the forward pressure screw). 115 brakes on 90 ski kind of sucks.

Also I can foresee a bunch of incorrectly setup systems. A couple of mm off on mounting the plates and forward pressure could be way off when swapping to different skis. Maybe some will, but certainly not all end users will check every time when they just run to the car to swap skis.

Maybe I’m missing something but I think I’d rather just buy another set of bindings.

[jdadour]

If used in conjuction with CAST, this would be an interesting way to remove the heel piece for touring to save weight.

[GPP33]

If used in conjuction with CAST, this would be an interesting way to remove the heel piece for touring to save weight.

This is an interesting idea, just need a light weight piece that slides in for heel risers.