Get Down with Down (skis)

[dschane]

booted a couloir mon thru fri last week

way to get after it; count me jealous. high pressure here all week - cramponed up refrozen hell and definitely not mon-fri.

[margotron]

Put my CD110 186s from a few years back in GS. They deserve to be skied and I reach either skinnier (CD102L) or fatter for backcountry days


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[phatty]

Still looking for a 187cm SD105 review. Those are high on my list, but I don't want to be the guinea pig.

[mall walker]

Anyone know what the base material is on the Lowdown series? I am absolutey thrashing my LD90 bases lol. I am skiing them a lot of course, and fairly hard/fast/in steep variable conditions, but boy. These are gonna need some serious love if the off-season ever happens.

Rad skis though... I’ll be making the group buy an annual tradition I suspect.

[doebedoe]

Anyone know what the base material is on the Lowdown series? I am absolutey thrashing my LD90 bases lol. I am skiing them a lot of course, and fairly hard/fast/in steep variable conditions, but boy. These are gonna need some serious love if the off-season ever happens.

Rad skis though... I’ll be making the group buy an annual tradition I suspect.

From the website it looks like this stuff: http://www.blankslateskis.com/isospe...ice-per-meter/ .

I'm with you that it is isn't as hardy as my DuraSurf 4001 bases.

[mall walker]

From the website it looks like this stuff: http://www.blankslateskis.com/isospe...ice-per-meter/ .

I'm with you that it is isn't as hardy as my DuraSurf 4001 bases.

Interesting. Yeah the P-Tex 4000 bases on my Movement skis (and whatever my Trab skis use) are much, much tougher... I have already used a P-Tex candle on my LD90s in five or six places after 17 days of use. I've never had to P-Tex anything on either of the other pairs and they've seen years of use, including much worse sounding/feeling hits. For what it's worth, nothing has gone to the core yet, so that's good. But if I just look at a rock or stump wrong it seems like there's a decent gouge in the base. I've been spreading my season out across my main 3 pairs of touring skis and I am an equal opportunity rock and stump hitter.

Oh well. My 2019/2020 LD90 update wish list now includes "lower the tip rocker height by half" and "P-Tex 4000 bases" They're still amazing skis, and mostly I'm being nit-picky because they're so much closer to the perfect ski for me than anything else I've skied has been.

[geo039]

From the website it looks like this stuff: http://www.blankslateskis.com/isospe...ice-per-meter/ .

I'm with you that it is isn't as hardy as my DuraSurf 4001 bases.

Yup ISOsport 7200. Definitely not the hardest base but one we have used (and essentially all the majors that are not skimping in cost) use due to its overall high performance. On a side anyone interested in a touring season GB? Made a few more LD and CD-L so have a few to spare

[doebedoe]

Yup ISOsport 7200. Definitely not the hardest base but one we have used (and essentially all the majors that are not skimping in cost) use due to its overall high performance. On a side anyone interested in a touring season GB? Made a few more LD and CD-L so have a few to spare

From the looks of it, softer and thinner (1.2 vs the 1.3 or 1.8) than the DuraSurf, but also a good bit more expensive. Must be fast.

[Boissal]

From the looks of it, softer and thinner (1.2 vs the 1.3 or 1.8) than the DuraSurf, but also a good bit more expensive. Must be fast.

It's definitely thinner than most bases out there and does feel softer. I feel like it enhances coreshotability (definitely a word) by a significant factor. The thickness of the base on the CD114L reminds me of what my Legend Pros looked like after a couple based grinds: any hit = coreshot. I still think they're holding up really well considering the above and the fact that most hits I've taken this season have been full speed leg-ripping ones and the skis are still in one piece.

I finally invested in a broad tip for my soldering iron and spent a fair amount of time doing base welds a couple weeks ago. So far everything has held up really well except for one spot which pulled out when I ripped my skins, my fault as I didn't prep the exposed core well.

If we're doing wishlists for the next generation of skis, I'd vote for going with plain black bases and make them thicker and harder. I don't care if I lose 5% glide over a race base, I'm usually not spending much time in a tuck trying to save 1/10th of a second and passing buddies in the flats. I walk across brush and rocks all the time and ski in sharklandia until mid season. I'll probably never wax the skis, let alone do any kind of structure work on the base to make it faster. I'll fix the major gouges a couple times a season and that's it.

On that note, while the blue sections on the CD114L are cool, the clear base material is harder to base weld than the black one. The material from the clear repair ribbons isn't anywhere near as workable as the black version, doesn't melt as well, cools off faster, and doesn't stick to the existing base as well. I don't give a shit about looks and tried to fix some of the gouges in clear areas with black material and ripped out every patch the first time I pulled my skins.

Final wish list item: raise the tail and round it up up a bit. As much as i hate the tail clips of my skins falling off all the time or the entire tail delaminating DPS-style the ability to ski backwards without burying the tail and eating shit can be awesome in couloirs or tight spots. You're not a very graceful falling leaf when you get upside down... Can the metal tail insert stay in place with a rounded raised tail?
And if you take mallwalker's suggestion of lowering the tip rocker, make sure you give the skis a longer shovel!

[Boissal]

Yup ISOsport 7200. Definitely not the hardest base but one we have used (and essentially all the majors that are not skimping in cost) use due to its overall high performance. On a side anyone interested in a touring season GB? Made a few more LD and CD-L so have a few to spare

Do you have some LD90s sitting around? I'm still a bit hesitant to charge on my LD102 as 179 feels super short, maybe a narrower ski in 177 will feel more balanced... I'd probably replace the LD102 with CD104L and since I'm pretty sure I could find a couple people in the Wasatch who'd jump on the CD114L I could sponsor a group buy all on my own!

[mall walker]

^ if you're a 296 BSL (or within a mm or two and willing to risk prerelease/norelease) you're welcome to try my LD90s if you want, unfortunately I mounted Plum 150s directly on the ski without plates so there's no room for adjustment. They are a very fun and confidence-inspiring ski to go fast on imo, though even on your LD102s you're chargier than me so take that with a grain of salt.

edit:

If we're doing wishlists for the next generation of skis, I'd vote for going with plain black bases and make them thicker and harder. I don't care if I lose 5% glide over a race base, I'm usually not spending much time in a tuck trying to save 1/10th of a second and passing buddies in the flats. I walk across brush and rocks all the time and ski in sharklandia until mid season. I'll probably never wax the skis, let alone do any kind of structure work on the base to make it faster. I'll fix the major gouges a couple times a season and that's it.

100% the same... I'm on these skis exclusively in the bc, and I hit stuff. A lot.

[margotron]

Do you have some LD90s sitting around? I'm still a bit hesitant to charge on my LD102 as 179 feels super short, maybe a narrower ski in 177 will feel more balanced...
I'm pretty sure I could find a couple people in the Wasatch who'd jump on the CD114L too... Hell, I might get another pair as back up or to test a different mounting point.

i charge my ld102s. They are 186. Personally I can’t see skinnier being more chargey in the BC but who knows

[galibier_numero_un]

I confess to only being on good snow with my CD114s, and am ashamed to say that I haven't beat on my bases ;-)

Having said that, I'd give up speed for a 4001 base as well next year - even if it's at an increased cost. I wonder if the implication (extra thickness in addition to toughness) is that there's an edge design change? I can see this as being slippery slope for a ski designer, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

I thought I was in the minority, in preferring plain, black bases. Even with Praxis custom orders, I've always gone plain black. All of this die cut silliness that adds cost with no performance benefit, while making you pick and choose p-tex colors when doing repairs (the assumption being that you care about cosmetics on the base). What's the point? I think I'm going to stick with black p-tex for all of my base repairs moving forward.

... Thom

[mall walker]

I confess to only being on good snow with my CD114s, and am ashamed to say that I haven't beat on my bases ;-)

Having said that, I'd give up speed for a 4001 base as well next year - even if it's at an increased cost. I wonder if the implication (extra thickness in addition to toughness) is that there's an edge design change? I can see this as being slippery slope for a ski designer, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

... Thom

I also would pay more. Here in UT anyway you can normally ski the bc from October/November to June, and many of us do... but you will hit stuff.

[Boissal]

i charge my ld102s. They are 186. Personally I can’t see skinnier being more chargey in the BC but who knows

I went with the 179, first time in many many years I'm on skis shorter than 180. They're more centered than my usual mounts and I feel like I have no tip. It's really odd since the ski is basically a rail at speed but I can never relax completely on them, always feel like I'm closing my turns too much and getting bounced when I unload the ski before the next turn. The only time they really felt at home was on glacial corn last spring and I had to force myself to let them do their thing or they would buck me at every turn. I don't understand how a ski that stiff and straight can want to turn that much... Maybe it has to do with the fact that I ski long damp planks in soft snow most of the time and you can really lay into those without really getting into tight turns. The LDs only come out on hard snow and I don't adjust my skiing enough. I should do a groomer day on them to get a good feel.
I'd probably bitch and moan even more on the LD90 which would feel like a blend between a toothpick and snowblades. I'm so used to long wide floaty planks in soft snow that when you put me on small skis in the steeps my brain shuts down.

if you're a 296 BSL (or within a mm or two and willing to risk prerelease/norelease) you're welcome to try my LD90s if you want, unfortunately I mounted Plum 150s directly on the ski without plates so there's no room for adjustment. They are a very fun and confidence-inspiring ski to go fast on imo, though even on your LD102s you're chargier than me so take that with a grain of salt.

Thanks, I think I have ogre-foot syndrome and those wouldn't work.

Having said that, I'd give up speed for a 4001 base as well next year - even if it's at an increased cost. I wonder if the implication (extra thickness in addition to toughness) is that there's an edge design change? I can see this as being slippery slope for a ski designer, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

I think edges came in various thicknesses and you're right, thicker base probably means thicker edges and more weight...

I thought I was in the minority, in preferring plain, black bases. Even with Praxis custom orders, I've always gone plain black. All of this die cut silliness that adds cost with no performance benefit, while making you pick and choose p-tex colors when doing repairs (the assumption being that you care about cosmetics on the base). What's the point? I think I'm going to stick with black p-tex for all of my base repairs moving forward.

No way, black bases are the only way to go. It's like red boots/skis/cars: they're obviously faster.
Unless you're photoslutting for a brand and getting upside down a lot I don't see the point of rad designs on bases, you never see them. At most get the logo or the name of the brand at the tip where you don't have to worry about repairs...

[JanIdar]

If you're ever passing through Hamar, I have a pair you can borrow.

Incidentally, it's the the stiffest and probably best of the protos. It's not really fully rockered, more like the profile of a lotus 138, flat underfoot for about 55cm and massively rockered in both tip and tail, 120mm at the narrowest and about 43-45m radius, 193cm measured along the base and sub 2kg.

I have no ETA for this model making it into production, if ever, though.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Wow, thanks. I´m afraid Hamar is a bit too far south. 1300km is long trip to demo skis no matter how great skis sound. Would love to see that kind of ski in production, you would sell a ton of them. Maybe even 10 pairs

[SiSt]

you would sell a ton of them. Maybe even 10 pairs

Yup.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[R0N1N]

Still looking for a 187cm SD105 review. Those are high on my list, but I don't want to be the guinea pig.

What do you wanna know exactly? They RIP! But def. no Powder Ski!

[::: :::]

Base repair check-in & vote for beefier base: a year ago when I got my cd114’s, I managed to hit a shark 2nd day on them and scarred right thru to the core

[Lindahl]

If you're ever passing through Hamar, I have a pair you can borrow.

Incidentally, it's the the stiffest and probably best of the protos. It's not really fully rockered, more like the profile of a lotus 138, flat underfoot for about 55cm and massively rockered in both tip and tail, 120mm at the narrowest and about 43-45m radius, 193cm measured along the base and sub 2kg.

I have no ETA for this model making it into production, if ever, though.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Sounds like a fun ski! Color me interested. Any pairs in CH? I’ll be moving to Zurich this summer.

[SiSt]

Sounds like a fun ski! Color me interested. Any pairs in CH? I’ll be moving to Zurich this summer.

Should be one or two at Gregor's and some pairs in Innsbruck I believe.

They're definitely fun in the right conditions.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[doebedoe]

Countdown 104L Ongoing impressions

Skied a few hours of hard pack off lifts today. Trying to make sure I'm not going to regret taking only one setup to Euro land. 181s, Hawx XTD boots, Vipecs.

Felt pretty good overall. Definately not as much ski as I'm used to when skiing hard. A bit nervous that I over de-tuned the tails as they did not have the grip I was hoping on firm groomers to really push through the end of turn. Maybe I'm just used to a bit longer ski, who knows.

You can tell they are 1600g. My typical setup for a day with conditions like today (Western "firm") is a 187 Atomic Alibi (metal spine), with PX15 Racing clamps -- in short heavy.

Impressed with how much better Vipecs feel than Speed Rads. I wasn't raging bumps, but skied them with some gusto and never felt.

[galibier_numero_un]

The recent Western "firm" has been ... er ... challenging for several of my skis - this, from someone who grew up skiing in Vermont.

TL;DR: I'm looking at shimming my Vipec toes. On bulletproof snow, I'm wondering if skiing with stiffer boots (XT 130 Freetours vs. Mango Maestrales) overdrives the 104s. I might need to subtly adjust the tune.

I usually avoid firm conditions like this (don't like to rattle my old bones), but it got me to thinking about an SD95 type of ski. That would just encourage me to put "unnecessary" wear on a finite resource, however (my knees). I should be on the skin track on days like that.

Last week I escaped for a tune testing day at Eldora in those conditions.

My 14/15 Billygoats really had my "attention". My CD 114s were considerably more confidence inspiring, but I still had to dial it back a notch. Neither of these skis are GS skis - doh!

My 104s (not Ls) were pretty squirrely on this hard snow (they're totally predictable in manky snow). On hard snow, I was overdriving them and re-stabilizing required my attention. This surprised me considering how intuitive they are in garbage snow. My experience with my 104s might be instructive. IIRC I'd previously only been out on them with my Mango Maestrales. Last week and today, I was wearing my XT130 Freetours and I think the extra power contributed.

Today, I took out both the 114s and 104s. Again, I felt as if I was overdriving my tips on the 104s when I hit firmer conditions.

One other thing ... Pivots on the 114s and Vipecs on the 104s. I've been on the Pivots quite a bit this year and I'm getting used to and liking the flatter stance.

I need to shove a 3-5 mm shim under the Vipec toes to make sense of this. There was a time when a vintage Dynafiddle ramp angle didn't bother me. Times change ...

The tune/predictability on both the 104 & 114 is great in all other conditions (including wind-fucked snow), irrespective of boot stiffness. Both skis are detuned to the sidecut. Today got me to thinking about extending it on the 104s an inch at a time at the tip (starting by feathering) - predictability over absolute edge hold.

I'm gonna return to my softer Maestrales with the 104s (what I normally tour with) to make sure I'm not nuts, and I need to pick up some UHMW to chop up into toe shims.

I'm excited for you about your trip. My take is that you'll be longing for the ski that's sitting at home maybe 70% of the time. I feel your pain. I'm working on getting that demon out of my head (not always successfully).

... Thom

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

[galibier_numero_un]

Are you guys seeing a possibility of a CD 114L in 182 size next year? 189 is a wee bit long for a touring ski for me. I'm guessing this width touring ski doesn't sell much in Euro-land, so demand in general is low for this ski.

3500 or so gms./pair of CD 114 touring goodness has me lusting.

... Thom

[SiSt]

Are you guys seeing a possibility of a CD 114L in 182 size next year? 189 is a wee bit long for a touring ski for me. I'm guessing this width touring ski doesn't sell much in Euro-land, so demand in general is low for this ski.

3500 or so gms./pair of CD 114 touring goodness has me lusting.

... Thom

It's on the table. L-series is doing decently well, and we already have everything we need, so...

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk