Letter to Marker Re-Kingpin

[galibier_numero_un]

... my point was it's not a widespread binding used in YFYD terrain.

Yup, I'm just wondering if Marker is aware enough to add another QC step for high visibility pros' gear - folks, whose death would not exactly be good PR ... not that this helps a member of the general public standing on top of something gnar :-(

... Thom

[skibrd]

I suppose you're just as entitled to your opinion as I am.




















My opinion is that you're an idiot.

Wait, I’m an idiot for skiing them in the first place, or an idiot for trading them away for Dynafits?

I skied my Kingpins for 3 weeks in bounds one season when my race boots were getting warrantied. I only had one pair of alpine boots at that point in time too. Ive never been one to skimp on gear, and am 100% a believer in the right tool for the job, hence switching to Dynafit TLT Speeds for dedicated touring and using CAST Plates for side country touring. Don’t see the point in dieing over a few hundred bucks here or there.

Now my buddy who took the Kingpin for TLT Speeds, he is an idiot and I told him such when he made the trade with me. But that is his issue now, not mine.


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[XXX-er]

Even though I seriously think everyone is over reacting and less then 5% (my guess, no proof behind this) of Kingpins are failing, I Just traded my Kingpin 13s for a pair of Dynafit TLT Speeds. A buddy ordered a few pairs of Speeds and they are too much for his GF so I’m getting the Speeds

Well folks may be getting pissy which never happens on tgr but I disagree that marker does not have a problem with the Kingpin

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Well folks may be getting pissy which never happens on tgr but I disagree that marker does not have a problem with the Kingpin

If pins are breaking during touring then there's definitly a problem.

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[markcjr]

Exactly. Just got back from two weeks in Cham -- I saw lots of Dynafit, Plum, and ATK binders. The few Kingpins I saw were either on pro freeriders or (mostly) gapers. YMMV and those are obviously just anecdotal observations.

Edit - Sorry- didn't see the exact question already asked prior to posting this

I was wondering about the pro guys using these. I see Sam Smoothy on them in his instagram feed. I saw a local pro on them at Squaw last week. Do you think Marker beefs them up for their team riders? You would think they wouldn't want to risk the bad press from one of their riders getting hurt on them.

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[XXX-er]

I mean to say I don't think this thread will accomplish SFA cuz whatever will be will be when marker comes up with a plan but from what I have seen locally marker does have a real problem

Dynafit has had real problem too and they have just gave out heel pieces for the rad1

Que fucking sera eh?

[nickel]

Wait, I’m an idiot for skiing them in the first place, or an idiot for trading them away for Dynafits?

Neither. You're an idiot for thinking that a 5% failure rate is no big deal. Whether or not the kingpin has or is experiencing such a rate, your perception that such a rate would be nothing to get worked up about is messed up.

If you ever start a company of any kind, please keep us all informed of the name you choose and what you make, for... reasons.

[LeeLau]

Neither. You're an idiot for thinking that a 5% failure rate is no big deal.

Boy Ive heard some doozies on TGR but what skibrd spewed forth was SmH

[My Pet Powder Goat]

I think skibrd is, most likely, a good skier and decent individual, with questionable math skills.

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[XXX-er]

Perhaps skibrd has a telemark background cuz that stuff broke lots but ime not like the kingpin

[retirwntm]

Teleskier would explain the math skills.


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[auvgeek]

Yup, I'm just wondering if Marker is aware enough to add another QC step for high visibility pros' gear - folks, whose death would not exactly be good PR ... not that this helps a member of the general public standing on top of something gnar :-(

I was wondering about the pro guys using these. I see Sam Smoothy on them in his instagram feed. I saw a local pro on them at Squaw last week. Do you think Marker beefs them up for their team riders? You would think they wouldn't want to risk the bad press from one of their riders getting hurt on them.

I have absolutely no insider information. Part of me would be pretty surprised if the pros got anything different than the production models, but I also know the athlete editions of skis and other stuff can be very different than what's released to the public. Obviously ON3P made the Super Goat for their FWT athlete, and I know certain female pro skiers used to ski the men's version of a ski with the women's topsheet. I'm sure an industry insider could give many more examples. But still, I'd be pretty surprised if Marker had a burlier (or even more QC'd) version of the Kingpin that it specifically gave to athletes.

That said, I highly doubt that if a binding failure contributed to the death of a pro, the general public would hear about it. Especially if it's in YFYD terrain -- who's to say the failure caused the fall rather than the fall caused the failure? The only way the public would really know is if there was a failure that caused a fall in consequential but not YFYD terrain (depending on conditions, you can self arrest on some pretty steep lines) where the person didn't die but got injured or scared enough to want to report the failure. AND then the pro (or his partners) would have to announce on social media (with photos) that the Kingpin failure caused the fall/injury...which is almost certainly a breach of contract. All in all, I'd guess the chances of Marker getting blamed for the death/injury of one of their team athletes from a Kingpin failure is pretty low.

PS. I'd choose buster to learn me some maths.

[rod9301]

I hope this letter and this thread will make great companies to test their products better and for longer.

The number of problems in the first year of production on at bindings is ridiculous.

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[rod9301]

Sorry, I meant gear companies not great companies. Not many of these left in the ski industry.

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[galibier_numero_un]

... I'd be pretty surprised if Marker had a burlier (or even more QC'd) version of the Kingpin that it specifically gave to athletes.

In retrospect, this makes sense (at least, the QC part).

If they performed non-destructive testing on their products, it would follow that they have a sophisticated (6-sigma?) process whereupon they'd do statistical sampling/testing of their production batches.

Clearly, they haven't been doing that.

... Thom

[nickel]

most likely answer wrt pros is that they get replaced quite often.

[nyskirat]

Again, sorry for the delay.

I've got so much on my plate till June

but I saw this.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BiMze-mA...sawtoothguides

[Bragelonne]

I don't know Nyskirat if you're still compiling data or not; but either way I believe there's value in continuing to keep the community inform of Kingpin failures (especially for those poor suckers like me who still ride them).

This morning I had my 4th Kingpin failure this season, and it's exactly the same as the previous heel failure I reported here on page 5; it happened the same way. First time this heel failure occurred I thought it might be another bad luck with those damn bindings, but a second one at that exact same spot on the other heel seems to indicate that this particular plastic joint is highly subjected to fatigue-break.

In sum, this season both toe and heel pieces from my 2nd gen (2016-2017) Kingpin have broken.





Of note, the first time I had a failure (toe pin breaking - see page 1 of this thread) I called Marker Canada and they advised that I go to a specific shop (Comor Sports Whistler) to warranty the toe piece. It took a while, more than a week to get a replacement piece. For the next 3 failures - including the one that happened this morning - I took the liberty to go elsewhere (CanSki Whistler) and the tech there called Marker right away and could swap the broken pieces for one they had it stock immediately; returning my broken part later on. The reason I'm mentioning that is that although that second shop I went to offers way better service, I guess Marker is well informed at this point of multiple Kingpin failures across the globe, and thus quickly manage to work with any dealers to replace consumers' broken parts. It's just an hypothesis, but to give you some context this morning I had time to right down the gondola with my broken heel piece, walk to the shop and get a replacement heel so freakin' quickly I made it back to Blackcomb before the alpine chairs opened. The techs at CanSki are top-notch, no doubt there, but is it possible that Marker may be trying to streamline replacement parts as well as they are starting to grasp how much of a gigantic clusterfuck those bindings are ?

Just glad that once again that failure happened in bound; if this would have occurred in the backcountry with current snow condition I'd still be out there trying to get back to the village.

[ccl]

Again, sorry for the delay.

I've got so much on my plate till June

but I saw this.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BiMze-mA...sawtoothguides

I was the guide who dealt with the Kingpin failure in this Instagram post. At the bottom of a pitch, the client skied to a stop and his foot came off the ski. When I inspected the binding and saw the toe pin sheared, I reassured him that this was a known issue and he wasn’t alone. Of course that didn’t necessarily explain how he was going to get to the bottom of the run and skin out of a hole back to the hut.

[nickel]

I don't know Nyskirat if you're still compiling data or not; but either way I believe there's value in continuing to keep the community inform of Kingpin failures (especially for those poor suckers like me who still ride them).

This morning I had my 4th Kingpin failure this season, and it's exactly the same as the previous heel failure I reported here on page 5; it happened the same way. First time this heel failure occurred I thought it might be another bad luck with those damn bindings, but a second one at that exact same spot on the other heel seems to indicate that this particular plastic joint is highly subjected to fatigue-break.

In sum, this season both toe and heel pieces from my 2nd gen (2016-2017) Kingpin have broken.





Of note, the first time I had a failure (toe pin breaking - see page 1 of this thread) I called Marker Canada and they advised that I go to a specific shop (Comor Sports Whistler) to warranty the toe piece. It took a while, more than a week to get a replacement piece. For the next 3 failures - including the one that happened this morning - I took the liberty to go elsewhere (CanSki Whistler) and the tech there called Marker right away and could swap the broken pieces for one they had it stock immediately; returning my broken part later on. The reason I'm mentioning that is that although that second shop I went to offers way better service, I guess Marker is well informed at this point of multiple Kingpin failures across the globe, and thus quickly manage to work with any dealers to replace consumers' broken parts. It's just an hypothesis, but to give you some context this morning I had time to right down the gondola with my broken heel piece, walk to the shop and get a replacement heel so freakin' quickly I made it back to Blackcomb before the alpine chairs opened. The techs at CanSki are top-notch, no doubt there, but is it possible that Marker may be trying to streamline replacement parts as well as they are starting to grasp how much of a gigantic clusterfuck those bindings are ?

Just glad that once again that failure happened in bound; if this would have occurred in the backcountry with current snow condition I'd still be out there trying to get back to the village.

Based on the location of your failure, I just want to double check that your aware of how to set your forward pressure on these and that you've double checked that it's set correctly?

[nyskirat]

I sent the links to this thread and the other over to NS' head of journalism and he said he's going to take a look into it.

[Bragelonne]

Based on the location of your failure, I just want to double check that your aware of how to set your forward pressure on these and that you've double checked that it's set correctly?

Re-checked that this morning; the forward pressure screw at the back of the heel is indeed flush with both *new* heel pieces when the boots are IN the bindings.

[mtnjam]

I was the guide who dealt with the Kingpin failure in this Instagram post. At the bottom of a pitch, the client skied to a stop and his foot came off the ski. When I inspected the binding and saw the toe pin sheared, I reassured him that this was a known issue and he wasn’t alone. Of course that didn’t necessarily explain how he was going to get to the bottom of the run and skin out of a hole back to the hut.

Nice job fixing that up. I assume he got out of Lower Marshall? Did that happen during the mountaineering camp?
Like I replied on the other social media site you guys put this on....Buy Dynafits (not that those don't have issues either, but....)

I have a buddy that I tour with frequently who has had his issues with the KingPins too, mainly the brake bar not holding the brake in "tour" position, but hasn't had any pin failures....YET

[XXX-er]

My buddy who had 5 failures had to wait for warranty parts very early in this season and the go ahead from Marker but every failure after that the dealer just replaced parts without having to contact Marker which would indicate to me they are aware they have a problem.

Special bindings for pro's would indicate Marker knew the bindings are going to break from the git go, are you fucking kidding me

[ccl]

Nice job fixing that up. I assume he got out of Lower Marshall? Did that happen during the mountaineering camp?
Like I replied on the other social media site you guys put this on....Buy Dynafits (not that those don't have issues either, but....)

I have a buddy that I tour with frequently who has had his issues with the KingPins too, mainly the brake bar not holding the brake in "tour" position, but hasn't had any pin failures....YET

The strap system worked better for the down than the up. Eventually we gave up trying to skin out from Lower Marshall - I gave him my skis and I booted out.

On this same trip, another guy's G3 ION heel piece was rotating super easily, despite cranking down the lateral RV. He rotated out of it on a steep, firm slope but his toe stayed in since it was locked. He went down but luckily arrested himself quickly. Haven't seen many ION issues so this was new to me. Didn't get to look at it too closely so no theories on what the issue was.

I saw too many Dynafit Radical heels explode. I know they've fixed this (I think?) but the new ones are getting too heavy and complicated for my taste. So I'm not exactly a Dynafit fan-boy. Current fave binding is the Atomic Backland/Salomon MTN - knock on wood, I've had super good luck with these so far. I know this is a Marker Kingpin thread, so that's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.