Why aren't cabrio boots the norm?

[Benny Profane]

Not much. Liners and materials, yes, but otherwise....

[Skidog]

Like everything boots are personal preference. You can't automatically discount a skiers skills based on their equipment alone.

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[Benny Profane]

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=304292

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[Skidog]

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=304292

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Discussed earlier in thread. Highly modified apparently and he didn't do well with them. That might not exactly be the boots though.

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[Nevada29er]

I previously owned Dalbello Krypton Pros and now own Dalbello Scorpions. Same brand, same size, same (supposed) flex of 130.

The Scorpions can apply WAY more power to the edge, with way less effort, and are way more precise. Like, not even close.
The Kryptons were more consistent over temperature changes (didn't soften up as much in warm weather), were more forgiving, and much easier to get on and off. The Scorpions make me want to cry every time I put them on or take them off.

+1 and heated boot bag is a must.

[Spats]

Race boots are designed for carving turns on ice that's smooth or slightly chattery, using skis that are FIS-restricted to have insufficient sidecut to make the turns they need to make. If you think that's relevant to any of us skiing pow, crud, moguls, corn, mank, or any typical non-racing snow condition, with skis that don't have to be FIS-legal and the option of skidding turns, you're wrong. If you think you need a 130 flex race boot to ski medium angle pow, which is most people on TGR, your form and balance sucks and you're using "pro gear" as a crutch.

Cabrio boots offer a more linear flex than overlap boots. That means the flex can be stiffer in the beginning of the stroke, and more sensitive to smaller deflections. (If an overlap boot were that stiff and sensitive, it would be a rigid brick deeper in its flex.)

Thus, a cabrio boot can be far more sensitive and offer better response to skiers with a balanced, centered stance. If you like to drive your tips hard - as ski racers must, since they're trying to make skis with FIS-mandated insufficient sidecuts carve tight turns on nearly flat ice - you probably prefer overlap boots. If you ski from a centered stance, you probably prefer cabrio boots.

Yep, in 1984. Or 34 years ago.

Boots have changed a lot since them.

No. Alpine boots are exactly the same as they were then. Here's a pair of 1980 Langes. They're the same design as modern Langes, or any other overlap boot.



1980s Koflach:



1980s Nordica NR:

[Skidog]

Race boots are designed for carving turns on ice that's smooth or slightly chattery, using skis that are FIS-restricted to have insufficient sidecut to make the turns they need to make. If you think that's relevant to any of us skiing pow, crud, moguls, corn, mank, or any typical non-racing snow condition, with skis that don't have to be FIS-legal and the option of skidding turns, you're wrong. If you think you need a 130 flex race boot to ski medium angle pow, which is most people on TGR, your form and balance sucks and you're using "pro gear" as a crutch.

Cabrio boots offer a more linear flex than overlap boots. That means the flex can be stiffer in the beginning of the stroke, and more sensitive to smaller deflections. (If an overlap boot were that stiff and sensitive, it would be a rigid brick deeper in its flex.)

Thus, a cabrio boot can be far more sensitive and offer better response to skiers with a balanced, centered stance. If you like to drive your tips hard - as ski racers must, since they're trying to make skis with FIS-mandated insufficient sidecuts carve tight turns on nearly flat ice - you probably prefer overlap boots. If you ski from a centered stance, you probably prefer cabrio boots.



No. Alpine boots are exactly the same as they were then. Here's a pair of 1980 Langes. They're the same design as modern Langes, or any other overlap boot.



1980s Koflach:



1980s Nordica NR:

Spats schooling it....

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[rod9301]

Spats schooling it....

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Ok, about skiing centered.

If you are in a steep couloir in powder, narrow, you can shorten your turn radius dramatically if you really load the ski tips by pulling your feet back.

So when when not on ice you can benefit by loading the tips.

Even in jump turns, I pull my feet back so when I land, the tips are loaded, which really shortens my turns.

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[Skidog]

Ok, about skiing centered.

If you are in a steep couloir in powder, narrow, you can shorten your turn radius dramatically if you really load the ski tips by pulling your feet back.

So when when not on ice you can benefit by loading the tips.

Even in jump turns, I pull my feet back so when I land, the tips are loaded, which really shortens my turns.

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i dont find I miss a ton between overlap and cabrio for being able to pressure the tips in these situations. YMMV, but I can manage just fine.

[Spats]

Ok, about skiing centered. If you are in a steep couloir in powder, narrow, you can shorten your turn radius dramatically if you really load the ski tips by pulling your feet back. So when when not on ice you can benefit by loading the tips.
Even in jump turns, I pull my feet back so when I land, the tips are loaded, which really shortens my turns.

Absolutely! If you want your skis to come around faster than their sidecut radius, you have to load the tips. The question is: how do you make most of your turns?

This actually connects to ski sidecut radius. People who load the tips a lot, and thus prefer overlap boots, also tend to prefer skis with a long sidecut radius, like 28 meters or even low 30s - because loading the tips makes them come around faster.

People who ski from a more centered stance, and thus prefer cabrio boots, tend to prefer shorter sidecuts, usually in the low 20s. (Sub-20m sidecuts can get terrifying at high speeds.) Centered-stance skiers also tend to enjoy strongly rockered skis, even reverse/reverse, because the shorter running length and lack of tip to drive doesn't bother them.

I definitely fall in the "centered stance" camp. When I first got a pair of Volant Spatulas it took me literally three turns to fall in love with them and I skied nothing else for many years, because I was so used to skiing centered. I've actually had to get used to driving tips more now that they're gone - but I still prefer cabrio boots.

[rod9301]

Yeah, I ski katanas, metal in the resort, carbon in the Backcountry, not sure where they fall in the spectrum of rocker.

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