2019 4frnt Renegade Changes?

[Supermoon]

All made by elan, slovenia? All semi - cap

Early Hojis were semi cap and from Elan for sure. I thought they moved all production to Canada after the sale but maybe I’m wrong about that part.

The only white room skis were Renegade, Raven and Wise

[mr_pretzel]

Early Hojis were semi cap and from Elan for sure. I thought they moved all production to Canada after the sale but maybe I’m wrong about that part.

The only white room skis were Renegade, Raven and Wise

Im pretty sure they only moved the whiteroom skis

[4FRNT_Skis]

Utopie, our Canadian factory, produces - Ren, Raven, InThayne and (new for 20/21 season) Devastator.

mr_pretzel, hats off for an absolutely legendary Ren timeline. **cue standing applause

[stuntmanbo]

4FRNT, please bring back the EHP, we need a 116mm ski with a flat camber, same as the Raven. Please :-)

[altacoup]

^^^

This. Pretty please

[tuco]

^^^
^^^
And while you're at it, bring back White Room built skis and build the EHP there.

[4FRNT_Skis]

4FRNT, please bring back the EHP, we need a 116mm ski with a flat camber, same as the Raven. Please :-)

-Would anyone ever want to see the Hoji rocker flattened a bit to be more like the Raven? Sort of a hybrid EHP / Hoji?

-What in your opinion is our line currently missing? and what is it missing from a non diehard 4FRNT customer perspective?

-Any skis stand out as something that needs an update or redesign?

-Are you stoked on this past seasons graphics?

This crazy pandemic situation has given us some extra time to really think about our product and spend some time really diving into what we are doing well and what we need to do better. There is no better place to reach out and listen to our customers then here, as you all know the brand better than anyone out there. Would love to hear some feedback from this thread on the questions above! Cheers.

[kc_7777]

-Would anyone ever want to see the Hoji rocker flattened a bit to be more like the Raven? Sort of a hybrid EHP / Hoji?
-What in your opinion is our line currently missing? and what is it missing from a non diehard 4FRNT customer perspective?
-Any skis stand out as something that needs an update or redesign?
-Are you stoked on this past seasons graphics?
This crazy pandemic situation has given us some extra time to really think about our product and spend some time really diving into what we are doing well and what we need to do better. There is no better place to reach out and listen to our customers then here, as you all know the brand better than anyone out there. Would love to hear some feedback from this thread on the questions above! Cheers.

We have a pretty decent 4FRNT quiver in the family. I currently own 2020 184cm Renegades. My plan is to buy some 184cm Ravens next year and put Shifts on them. I've previously owned 184cm Devs, 181cm InThaynes, and 187cm Hojis too. My wife has 2018 179cm Hojis. My 2 sons (21 and 23 yrs old) each own 2018 181cm Inthaynes, and one also has 2015 186cm Rens and one has some 174cm Devs. My 9-year old daughter has 137cm Coyotes and 137cm Blondies. We've also owned MSP 99s recently too, but sold them.

We also currently have 177cm Icelantic Maidens (wife) + 175cm Black Crows Camox (wife) and 177cm K2 Marksmans (me) + 183cm Faction Candide 5.0s (me) in our quivers.

Some comments/observations/desires:

Caveat...I don't know a ton about ski designing....and this probably needs its own thread.

1. Graphics: graphics on 2020 Rens, Ravens and Hojis are good, like the “Wolf” on the Rens. My fav graphic was the 2013 Pilsner Hojis (beer is classic and awesome!) and my 2013 Owl Rens were good too.

2. Sizing: I'm not a tall dude (5'7", 165 lbs) so it may just be me....

I get the range/lengths of sizing on the Rens/Ravens/Inthaynes/MSPs....ie one size in the low 180's and one size again in the low 190's?

I know that rockered skis like Rens and Ravens and Hojis ski shorter in feel due to the rocker profile. Skis with full rocker = less running surface. eg on the 184cm Raven/Ren means a 184cm skis shorter like a 180cm cambered ski.


eg., I like these sizings....
Rens 184/191
Ravens 184/190
InThaynes 181/188
MSP 181/187

But I dont' get the 4FRNT Dev sizing/lengths at 184/194? (IMO should be 181cm and 191cm?)

OR

the Hoji at 187/195 (IMO should be 184cm and 192cm).

Re the sizing on Hojis at 187cm and 195cm...I assume it's a 187cm Hoji and not a 184cm like the Ren/Raven sizing, as the 187 Hoji has more rocker = less running surface vs 184 Raven/Rens?. I see the running surface is pretty similar on each of a 184cm Raven (1160mm) vs 184cm Ren (1160mm) vs 187cm Hoji (1170mm)....but for a shorter guy like me who is 5'7"...a 187cm ski starts to get long cause we just have less leg length to move long skis around when skinning, or doing flip turns, in tight spots etc. So ya make the Hoji a tiny bit flatter like an Ren/Raven and then make it a 183-184cm? I'll buy one. PS I've skied the 179cm Hoji and it feels way too short.

I also know the 184cm Dev doesn't ski long (I'ved skied it), but the length just seems "off" at 184cm and 194cm for a freestyle ripper ski. But the Devs in my mind are a ski you rip around on everywhere, and the effective edge gets long on a 184cm ski when you roll it on edge (ie running surface on a 184cm Dev is 1486mm?, I'd probably buy a Dev if it was a 181/182cm. Dumb I know cause it's only 2-3 cm. But you asked.

3. Skis I want: Other than a 184cm Hoji and a 182cm Dev, I would also love a 4FRNT ski much like my 2020 183cm Faction Candide 5.0 (152mm-122mm-140mm), that is more shaped/more sidecut/less tip taper. The Faction 5.0s complement my Rens on inbound pow days, as it has a big non-tapered tip, that is not designed to porpoise in soft 3D snow like the Ren, so I find I can still rip groomers inbounds on the Faction on harder snow when the pow runs out vs the Rens that wants/needs softer 3D snow. The Faction Candide 5.0 is somewhat stiffish, and has flat rocker...so maybe make a Super Fat Devastator....with some wider tips eg kind of a 150mm-115mm-140mm and call it the 4FRNT Gladiator. In a 182cm and 192cm version please? This may overlap the InThayne though...I've skied the 181cm Inthayne, it's OK, pretty light and fun.

KC

[stuntmanbo]

-Would anyone ever want to see the Hoji rocker flattened a bit to be more like the Raven? Sort of a hybrid EHP / Hoji?

YES ! I owned a 2014 Hoji (white boat). It was really great and intuitive in soft snow. But, I'm skiing in the alps and sometimes you have to go through some exposed icy traverse, or through an icy couloir to get to the powder. The Hojis were really scary in those conditions. Eventually I sold them after I thought I was going to kill myself on an exposed traverse.

I've owned a Raven 2016 v2 which was great. I sold it because I choosed to go lighter (BMT 109), and I regret it, I may buy a Raven for next season. That ski is perfect, rocker, length, everything. Grip on hard snow is good enough to be secure on exposed stuff.

I own a Renegade 2014 (wood). It's an awesome ski. The problem is, even for pow days it's a bit wide for the alps. Sometime in the alps we get pow for exemple above 2000m and rain below. On hard snow, 122mm is too wide and it gets tiring for the knees. For me the sweet spot is 116mm. Grip on hard snow, like with the raven, is good enough.

So for me the problem of the Hoji is that it's too much rockered.

That's why I was asking for a 116mm Raven, basically.

But if you update the Hoji with the raven's rocker, it's going to be the perfect ski, that would work also.

Sorry KC but for me, the Hoji lengths are perfect as is.

Current graphics are really great I like them.

If you make a Hoji with the Raven's rocker next year, or a 116mm ski with the Raven's rocker, I'll buy it full price

I was starting to think about a custom 116mm Raven made by Endre Hals actually But it's quite a lot of money.

[kc_7777]

That's why I was asking for a 116mm Raven, basically.

Ya a 184cm 116mm Raven would work too....

[sf]

-Would anyone ever want to see the Hoji rocker flattened a bit to be more like the Raven? Sort of a hybrid EHP / Hoji?

-What in your opinion is our line currently missing? and what is it missing from a non diehard 4FRNT customer perspective?

-Any skis stand out as something that needs an update or redesign?

-Are you stoked on this past seasons graphics?
.

1, 2 and 3. Have not skied the Hoji, but wouldn't that defeat the whole reflect-tech-thing? If you consider making something like the EHP again I would like it to be a EHP 2021.
- I never liked the EHP as a pure powder ski. Let the width reflect that. 112?
- The rocker profile, shark nose, flex and weight was perfect - repeat with necessary adjustments
- As much as I like a ski with little sidecut, put some more in it. 30m-ish
- And then, since this will be a everyday-inbounds-soft-snow-ski, and you already have a lot of models with modern mount points, pull the sidecut and mount point back a bit. -8cm in the longer options.
- Make it in 190/184/178 or something like that.

- The rest of the models look good. MSP99 is tempting

4. 4frnt graphics have been so so. More and more "graphics" and less "art". Highlights include EHP 2010 and 2011. Would love it if you made a return to the cartoon-ish artwork

[North]

-Would anyone ever want to see the Hoji rocker flattened a bit to be more like the Raven? Sort of a hybrid EHP / Hoji?

-What in your opinion is our line currently missing? and what is it missing from a non diehard 4FRNT customer perspective?

-Any skis stand out as something that needs an update or redesign?

-Are you stoked on this past seasons graphics?

1. Loved the EHP (still have them). Love my Hojis. Never skied a Raven. No idea how a flattened rocker profile with Hoji sidecut profile would ski. One of my Red/White Hojis is dying and in need of replacement so I'll be following developments here closely.

I ski the 187. Would vote to keep sizing the same or drop the 195 and go 184/192.

2. I only ski 4FRNTS (Hoji, Rens) in the backcountry, and only in soft snow. I have not seen a ski from 4FRNT that I'm interested in for resort or steep spring skiing and technical mountaineering. It's not especially important to me if 4FRNT adds new skis in those categories.

3. N/A

4. I like all of the current Hoji Series graphics aside from the Hoji ski itself. Wolf, owl, raven, just work better than the bear IMO. EHP Pilsner and Water Color graphics are some of my favorite of all time.

[mr_pretzel]

-Would anyone ever want to see the Hoji rocker flattened a bit to be more like the Raven? Sort of a hybrid EHP / Hoji?

-What in your opinion is our line currently missing? and what is it missing from a non diehard 4FRNT customer perspective?

-Any skis stand out as something that needs an update or redesign?

-Are you stoked on this past seasons graphics? .

1. A hoji with a flatter rocker profile would be awesome. The blue ravens from 17/18 did not follow the reflect tech and has a lower rocker than the sidecut and they ski great. A hoji with a similar profile would be awesome.
I am conflicted on this issue however as I would only want that ski in a heavier core profile such that I could ski it inbounds. I think in it’s current form with a deep rocker profile it works very well as a backcountry pow touring ski. No point in increasing the hardsnow skiability of a 112mm wide ski that is focused on backcountry skiing.

Another point I think is important is the reverse camber skis have to be stiff to ski well.

2/3. In my opinion the 4frnt line is currently really dialed from a non-diehard perspective.

You have the MSP series for more traditional skiers but they are not super demanding to ski and work well for lots of people, the graphics are great for the demographic.

The devastator and vandal work well for the more jibby crowd. I think the graphics here might be limiting as they are generally very dark each year. You also you have serious competition from other brands in this category. I have heard rumblings about a updated devastator for next year and am excited to see what the updates are, I think it’s smart to update this ski at this points. I hope it still comes in a bigboy length 190+. I don’t think you guys can compete with the big brands in the lightness category so making fun, damp and stable skis in this category would be good move for you guys in my opinion.

In my opinion the Inthayne is too light which might make it harder to sell as a inbounds ski. I know it is marked as a backcountry freeride ski, but I feel like it would sell a lot better if it was heavier, I know a lot of my freestyle friends are bummed it’s so light as they love the shape. Graphics are generally cool.

The freeride line is really well marketed and I firmly a 50/50 backcountry focused line in my mind.
I am again conflicted.
I wish the hoji and renegade were heavier and had denser cores because I am mainly a inbounds skier who loves to charge and ski fast. I love Eric’s designs and the renegade is one of my alltime favorite skis.
The graphics are again generally cool, I like this years, I like the ibex renegade for next year, the bastard renegade graphic was lame, but it seems like you guys left that style behind pretty quick.

So what is missing for me is the heavier strong skis that I can ski hard inbounds that arent the MSP series. I think the MSP series are good, but they are not the type of ski that interests someone like me who skis a lot and has a bunch of skis. I like the more specific models.

Also please keep the 190+ skis.

[tang]

I'm another multi-frnt guy - multiple EHPs (186 and 192) and then Ravens for winter backcountry. I did sell my Renegades (heavy, liked the flatter EHP more) and AT Hojis (Ravens lighter and more versatile).

That said, I'd buy another "new" EHP and maybe mount it up with a Shift or Tecton to be a 50/50 resort/sidecountry. I like the old dimensions a ton, but maybe a narrower EHP (kinda flatter Hoji) would work. I find the EHP shape works really well in all conditions (especially trees and moguls) except truly hard surfaces.

I've also been tempted by the MSP 107 to be that 50/50 type ski, but haven't pulled the trigger. Would pull it in a heartbeat for a new EHP.

I've loved all the graphics over the years. But if you're putting out another EHP, a big vote for another Pilsner - iconic!

[Tailwind]

I think the original Renegade was one of my favorite skis of all time. I started this thread a few years ago when my 4Frnt stoke was HIGH and I owned a few pairs. I sold my last pair this past winter, I had 186cm's that I had been touring on but they'd seen their day and it was time to move them on. I am looking for a pair of 196cm's as a resort powder ski.

The issue I have with the current lineup is I don't trust any of the skis enough to buy them sight unseen. On paper, I should love the 191cm Renegade, it's a great shape, length, and I liked the last model. But I have not given any serious thought to buying a pair because I have skied a lot of watered down skis from other companies and I'm worried the Renegade has gone down that path. A review or two in a magazine won't convince me either.

It seems like there were concessions in construction (which I can get past) but I have a general feeling that it's moved to be more accommodating of a broader audience and lost some of what made it special. I loved the old Renegade because it wasn't an easy ski, you had to be willing to be moving fast in order for it to be happy but when it was in, it was incredible. Not being cocky, but I'm a strong skier. I don't ski 99% of people so I want a ski that's built for the 1%.

So what it would take for me to buy another pair of Renegades:
* No production issues.
* Don't make it overly light (2250ish maybe)
* Make it as stiff as the previous model.
* Price point should be less than $700. On3p's are $750 and construction difference is night and day compared to the new 4frnt's I've seen.
* Rocker Profile and Turn Radius Matching the Original Renegade would be a big plus.

If you made a "Pro" version of the Renegade with the specs above or even just slightly amped up the 191cm version you would make the TGR crowd happy. That being said, I can completely understand that might not be the direction the brand is headed anymore as it likely isn't the path to profits but I can dream at least.

-Would anyone ever want to see the Hoji rocker flattened a bit to be more like the Raven? Sort of a hybrid EHP / Hoji?

-What in your opinion is our line currently missing? and what is it missing from a non diehard 4FRNT customer perspective?

-Any skis stand out as something that needs an update or redesign?

-Are you stoked on this past seasons graphics?

This crazy pandemic situation has given us some extra time to really think about our product and spend some time really diving into what we are doing well and what we need to do better. There is no better place to reach out and listen to our customers then here, as you all know the brand better than anyone out there. Would love to hear some feedback from this thread on the questions above! Cheers.

[gaijin]

I have '13 Owl Renegades. 186. I drive them with Lange RS130s in Japan's forests. They're stupid easy.

They are my one and only experience with this ski. I cannot for the life of me understand why 4FRNT made them lighter, with more rocker, and turnier.

I simply accept that I'm likely naive and the 2020 version is actually better. I mean, these are ski designers, right? What do I know?

But it's really hard for me to wrap my head around how my '13 Owl could be improved upon. I just don't get it. At all.

My skis are still alive and healthy. But if they were dead, I'd be buying a new Renegade. That said-- The changes are not anything I had ever asked for. I don't want them softer. I don't want more rocker. And I really appreciate the HALS construction of wall-to-wall wood. That's such a beautiful design in simplicity.

So, no, I'm not dropping my current ski for the new iteration. Does that speak to you, reader? Does the fact that I still prefer my 2013 version to what's presented to me on paper pull any clout with you?

I'm not saying that the 2020's suck... I have't skied them. But I also don't have any desire to.

Maybe I'm naive.

On the contrary, I've actually reached out to Japanese ski makers and have asked them to please copy my Ren. We're still in talks. I'd like to blatantly rip off the design of '13.

I write this now in hopes that 4FRNT will read this and I won't have to. But I will. We'll straight up farm the local hard wood forests that have been being farmed for hundreds of years for skis, and make a new HALS mold. We'll market it as Japan's premier tree ski.

Or, you will.

[Self Jupiter]

I thought the 186 EHP was great in pow for its width. Maybe I’m biased because that’s the first or second pow ski I had ever tried out (in the late 2000s). The 193 EHP has less float imo but really came to life with some speed speed. I can see why some skiers at big mountains use it as their daily driver.

I’ve owned 193 and 186 EHPs watercolor, 184 and 194 Devs, 196 White Room Rens and 187 Hojis. Owned 181 Switchblades too, great east coast DD. Still have the 186 EHP lying around, and the Hoji is in the rotation too. I got along with well with all of these skis. 5’7’’ ~185, i weighed more when I bought the 190+ skis.

I recently picked up 186 Moment Chipotle Banana— 122 under foot, 33m sidecut matches rocker profile. It’s basically a fatter, softer-flexing twin tip renegade and I have two days on it so far. They hand flex softer than Rens and even Hojis. I found that surprising considering what moment has to say about these skis—- stiff, game on, etc. I almost sold them when I got my hands on them figuring there was no way they would feel stiff enough. The rocker profile is subtle. I have two days skiing on them in VT but I instantly clicked with them. Mounted them -1cmish, putting them around -6cm from center. They are excellent on firm snow and provide a little more rebound put out of the turn than Hojis/Rens, I assume due to the rocker profile and flex. They also ski more damp. I feel like I can ski them faster than Hojis in almost any situation (Hoji 2015 snow teepee graphic), it’s looking like the Hojis will be set aside for touring use. FWIW I kept the edges sharper on the moments than I would have with the full rocker 4frnt designs that I always felt rode better with duller edges. Anyways, putting this out there because I personally didn’t think I would get along with a softer flex with this shape but I did. Caveat - I was skiing at Killington in VT and I didn’t get the chance to ski the CBs oon any really high speed steep runouts with chop etc, where the 196 Rens would just eat vertical. Or in really deep snow. But all signs point to them handling those conditions well.

[altacoup]

Awesome that 4frnt is asking us this. I’ve got a massive 4frnt quiver; 186 (3 back up pairs) & 196 renegades, 194 & 184 devastators, 187 msp99, 187 hoji, 186 & 193 ehps.

I like the hojis as they are, mine are the second year version. They ski pow really well and are more versatile than expected.

I’d really like to see The ehp come back exactly as it was. Such a great ski. Could handle any condition and I loved that it didn’t have much sidecut. I really like that 4frnt makes skis without a ton of sidecut. That’s said I could see that customers not loyal to the brand might want more sidecut. They’d probably also like to demo the skis.

I’m curious to try the new renegades. But not sure why you had to change my favorite pow ski ever. I’d love to see the white room skis come back and maybe make the ehp there? A few on here mentioned mount points. I say don’t change them. Love the progressive mounts. Offering a 191 renegades makes sense to me. But 184 is to short. My guess is Eric went shorter for touring. Haven’t skied the devastator since it was made lighter. Always thought it’s heft was what made it so good.

This past seasons graphics were horrible imo. Didn’t even consider buying any because of how hideous I thought they were.

Thanks for asking for input.

[SUPERIOR]

Not a 4frnt owner, but I gotta say I know a few ladies who ride the Hoji and Renegade, and the shorter lengths are great for them.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Va Ki Bo]

-Would anyone ever want to see the Hoji rocker flattened a bit to be more like the Raven? Sort of a hybrid EHP / Hoji?
-What in your opinion is our line currently missing? and what is it missing from a non diehard 4FRNT customer perspective?
-Any skis stand out as something that needs an update or redesign?
-Are you stoked on this past seasons graphics?
...

Considering #1, #2 and #3 - all three could be easily combined, as the current Hoji being almost (say, "almost") unchanged for so many years (everybody who wanted it already have it, there are a lots of options for used/previous years runs available on the market). Also the difference between Hoji and Renegade is thinner and thinner every year, so current Hoji looks more like "compromise Renegade", a bit narrower, a bit softer, a bit curvier ... a bit of everything. But that was the thing that made 4FRNT line special: every ski model was like specialized "no-compromise" tool with its own bright identity.
So switching back from Hoji to EHP (or making EHP 2.0 or Hoji/EHP-hybrid, whatever) - make sence. Having not just narrow tuned-down Renegade, but returning that special EHP smooth "frictionlessness" that many miss now, will make strong all-mountain contender in 4FRNT quiver with its own super-feature.

Top-sheet graphics is a matter of taste of course, but for me 2017 Raven/Hoji/Ren line was the best. Simple and pure color scheme, nice bright accents, looks smart (also, all green 2019(?) prototype-Renegades was beautiful!), as the 18/19 and 19/20 designs look fine on the wall as the piece of art, but are totally unrecognizable blurred colorfull mess when on skier's feet. So I'm more of BlackCrows graphics fan, than Armada/Icelantic/J-skis.

[North]

Took the Pilsner EHPs out for some pow skiing yesterday. Yep, they still rule. Timeless ski.

[Brown56Eliz]

We'll need more information about your dog.
What breed, how heavy?
What kind of walking does your dog prefer, flat and open parks or extreme downhill descents?

Soooo many variables.

Thankyou so much for helping me.
Irish Setter, Chinook and American hairless terrier.
Their weights are not so heavy. kind off ideal weight in their breed.
Open Parks and sometimes in down street. NomNom

[TCK]

-Would anyone ever want to see the Hoji rocker flattened a bit to be more like the Raven? Sort of a hybrid EHP / Hoji?

-What in your opinion is our line currently missing? and what is it missing from a non diehard 4FRNT customer perspective?

-Any skis stand out as something that needs an update or redesign?

-Are you stoked on this past seasons graphics?

Pretty rad you guys are getting our feedback, hopefully it’s taken into account. Hope the new owners can reverse JLev’s dumbing down of skis we used to love.

1. I think the hoji should be left as is for a touring ski. Bringing the EHP back would be a way more versatile resort ski. I don’t ski my hojis inbounds because of the reverse camber.

2&3. Please fix the devastator. I would love to see a hybrid of the old ski (weight, long turning radius, and long effective edge) and the new ski (rocker/camber/rocker profile). By making the ski light and short radius it ruined it.

4. The last few years graphics from Eric’s skis are brutal. I normally don’t care about graphics, but I wouldn’t spent money on them because they are so ugly (and I really want to try a 191 Ren). I’ve heard multiple ski friends say the same thing. Pilsner, watercolor, dev graphics, and the red/black hojis were on point.

[Judo Chop!]

-Would anyone ever want to see the Hoji rocker flattened a bit to be more like the Raven? Sort of a hybrid EHP / Hoji?

-What in your opinion is our line currently missing? and what is it missing from a non diehard 4FRNT customer perspective?

-Any skis stand out as something that needs an update or redesign?

-Are you stoked on this past seasons graphics?

This crazy pandemic situation has given us some extra time to really think about our product and spend some time really diving into what we are doing well and what we need to do better. There is no better place to reach out and listen to our customers then here, as you all know the brand better than anyone out there. Would love to hear some feedback from this thread on the questions above! Cheers.

1- I'd probably buy that. Almost seems like the Hoji would be more Renegade-ish, and the renegade is getting more Hoji-ish.

2- big skis. What happened? The 196 Ren was great. Seems like the rens got both mellowed-out AND shortened. How about adding in another long size to make up for it? They already ski kinda like a shorter ski anyways, so how about like a 198 just for wow factor? I'd buy those in a heartbeat. The 194 Dev was great too.

3 - see above.

4 - they're good. make more black and blue things. My wife's 2019 Hoji W's are the best looking skis I've seen. Devastator name calls for none-more-black.

[4FRNT_Skis]

To answer a couple of these statements below.

1st - we need to move past thinking JLev 'dumbed' down any of our skis during his time with the brand. EVERY decision that is made about our skis is made by our team, including Eric and Thayne, reviews we get from industry professionals and loyal customers. Although some people will not always agree, the overwhelming majority says otherwise.

2nd - Right now we are in the sweet spot for the # of models we offer. Adding a new model, whether its brining something back or creating a new ski it simply doesn't make sense the right now. Down the road is a different story.

3rd - the big sizes were awesome...but they were awesome to less than a handful of people a year. Although its cool to offer these skis, its not a reality due to MOQ's from factories. To make 20 and only sell 8-10 and have to discount the remaining quantity hurts our business (it took us until last week to sell through 15 194cm Devs from 2019/2020. I really miss the big sizes too, but it unfortunately just doesn't make sense to make for us. This too could change down the road.

4th - We are cooking up an update/redesign for the Hoji right now. Our engineer, Bob Boice, Eric, and the team have been HAMMERING the new prototypes all across the country and Canadna and I think we have a really good direction for the next round of prototypes that are in production right now. Stay tuned for this one, as i think we nailed a pretty solid recipe that could answer lots of the wants you guys have given us on here.

As always, thanks for your taking the time to put your thoughts down and share them with me. We love to hear from you and appreciate the ongoing support. Feel free to hit me up via email anytime you want to discuss further. Sam@4frnt.com

-Cheers,
Sam