2019 4frnt Renegade Changes?

**meter-man** · 12-20-2018, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by powderslave

The core width of the ski is very noticeable. I’m guessing that is from different base and edges. But the hoji came in at 13 to 13.5 mm not including the micro cap, where the renegade measures only 10.5 mm.
The renegade weighed in at 1873 g/1895g.
The hojis weighed 1982g/1952g.
The hojis are much stiffer. Especially in the tail. The renegades feel like under foot are stiff softening slightly in the tip but pretty soft tail on them. Where the hojis hold their stiffness throughout with they’ll getting softer after mid section.

Le sigh.

What length Hoji/Ren?

**gramboh** · 12-20-2018, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Judo Chop!

thanks for the info. Does anyone know if the new hojis are same same as the old hojis? I beleive they are, but not certain.
I personally found my older hojis to be noticeably softer and mellower ski than my older Renegades. FWIW. still a great ski though and I kinda regret getting rid of them.

I think I'm around your size and agree re: Renegade/Hoji... I had the OG Renegades (2011) and now the black/green 2016ish both 186cm. Also have the 2013 Hoji (Pilsner) 187cm. My 2016 Renegades are around 2300g/ski and I had a fucking blast ripping around Whistler on them the past week, just a perfect ski for everything from trees to chutes to going fast in open bowls. Even fun to carve on slushy warm ski-outs back to the village. I just can't wrap my head around each ski being a pound lighter (~20%) and skiing the same, 1875g at those dimensions just doesn't add up when I think of my buddy's 186cm Volkl BMT109's at 1730g 134-109-119 and how damn light they are.

Hoping to be proven wrong by some reviews... two ski quivver of heavier Renegade/lighter Hoji both with Shifts would be great for my ski needs.

**powderslave** · 12-20-2018, 05:38 PM

184 renegade and 187 hoji

**altacoup** · 12-20-2018, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by powderslave

I decided to order a pair of hojis since there was the holiday bundle deal, got hojis and pair of pivot 12 for 499. 100 less then what I paid for the renegade.
I haven’t returned the renegade yet. Wanted to compare the two. The core width of the ski is very noticeable. I’m guessing that is from different base and edges. But the hoji came in at 13 to 13.5 mm not including the micro cap, where the renegade measures only 10.5 mm.
The renegade weighed in at 1873 g/1895g.
The hojis weighed 1982g/1952g.
The hojis are much stiffer. Especially in the tail. The renegades feel like under foot are stiff softening slightly in the tip but pretty soft tail on them. Where the hojis hold their stiffness throughout with they’ll getting softer after mid section.
I was hoping to ride them very soon. But just broke my thumb and need surgery. Bummer as B.C. is getting the goods!
I would love to hear other reviews of people getting on the renegades. And even the new hojis.

This is exactly what so many of us were fearing. I like my hojis but they’re an easy skiing ski. They can handle steep terrain but by no means are they absolute shredders like og rens. Soft tails is the worst thing I’ve heard yet. Probably make for a great meadow skipper. Hopefully 4frnt rectifies this on the next run.

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**monkeywrenchMoose** · 12-20-2018, 08:37 PM

Interesting to find that the Bastard Renegades are softer than the Hojis. Curious to hear the first review of someone who skis them in the resort on a classic big pow day that turns to chop.

At any rate, if someone is looking for some older green/white Renegades (186cm), there is a pair at 2nd Tracks in SLC for $450 with bindings as of yesterday. Looked to be in excellent shape.

**monkeywrenchMoose** · 12-20-2018, 08:42 PM

And also this pair for $350 in SLC from a mag. Mounted once for kingpins at 326 BSL.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...4frnt-Renegade

**flatland** · 12-21-2018, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by crashidy

Outside bike and ski in canmore,ab has a pair of unmounted 196 black and green. 500$ cad.

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Not anymore. Time to replace the OG raven topsheets.

**reckless toboggan** · 12-21-2018, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by flatland

Not anymore. Time to replace the OG raven topsheets.

Nice.

**altacoup** · 12-25-2018, 01:22 PM

Just heard a rumor that 4frnt is changing the devestator to. No idea on lengths or dimensions. But no more reflect tech, flat under foot. Devestator is one of the very best daily drivers on the market. Lame that is getting changed. Been a loyal 4frnt skier for a while and always really appreciated that they didn't change skis just to change then. Now they've changed 2 of my favorite skis. Might have to switch to another brand.

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**kid-kapow** · 12-25-2018, 01:32 PM

give it a go before writing them off no, and if all else fails, perhaps ask Blister to perform another Bibby stunt? #ifallelsefails

While the road to an inferior product sometimes is riddled by good intentions, sometimes they also - you know - succeed and make something good even better. ON3P did so with their Wrenegade according to most folks, so 4FRNT might be able to pull it off too. After this Renegade-debacle I would rest assured that they are seeking to avoid a repeat

**PlayItLeo** · 12-25-2018, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by altacoup

Just heard a rumor that 4frnt is changing the devestator to.
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Noooooooooo. Time to hoard another pair or two.

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**skinipenem** · 12-25-2018, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by PlayItLeo

Noooooooooo. Time to hoard another pair or two.

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Oh shit. If they make a 190 and don't change anything else about the ski then count me in. Otherwise, hell no!

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**altacoup** · 12-25-2018, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by kid-kapow

give it a go before writing them off no, and if all else fails, perhaps ask Blister to perform another Bibby stunt? #ifallelsefails

While the road to an inferior product sometimes is riddled by good intentions, sometimes they also - you know - succeed and make something good even better. ON3P did so with their Wrenegade according to most folks, so 4FRNT might be able to pull it off too. After this Renegade-debacle I would rest assured that they are seeking to avoid a repeat

After this renegade debacle I have low confidence that the new devestator will be good. The current 184 is a great DD. While the 194 is the best chopped up snow ski ever. My guess is that they dumb down the 194 and make both lighter. I really hate this trend of making everything lighter. Rossi is a great example of a company that was making great skis. Sickle and squad 7. Then they went to the air tip construction and now they're skis are crap. Sure they moved a ton of soul 7s but they lost customers who liked other designs. I understand that 4frnt need to capture sales to a different audience. Well then make a ski for that audience. And continue to make the skis that have made the brand what it is. Pretty much zero confidence in jlev.

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**gaijin** · 12-26-2018, 06:17 AM

You can preach to the choir... but that doesn't keep a company alive.

Here's me... a guy who bought a Renegade in 2013 and is still raving about it. Meaning-- I'm not a repeat buyer.

Get it? We're not keeping the company afloat, dawg.

They're going to change the ski. They're going to change all the skis.

If you want to do the designers any favors, then stop bitching on the internet chat forums about how much they suck.

**bw_wp_hedonism** · 12-26-2018, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by gaijin

You can preach to the choir... but that doesn't keep a company alive.

Here's me... a guy who bought a Renegade in 2013 and is still raving about it. Meaning-- I'm not a repeat buyer.

Get it? We're not keeping the company afloat, dawg.

They're going to change the ski. They're going to change all the skis.

If you want to do the designers any favors, then stop bitching on the internet chat forums about how much they suck.

This.

Turning a company around is brutal work. Without that effort, I don’t think this thread would exist. I actually got a chance to chat with JLev last year when he was scrambling around for cash just to get the year’s production run. We might not like it, but it isn’t charity work, man’s got to pay debts, and to do that, he has to sell skis.

If someone wants to loan him the money for next year’s production run, maybe he’d be happy to bring back old designs? But you might not get all your money back...

**kathleenturneroverdrive** · 12-26-2018, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by altacoup

After this renegade debacle I have low confidence that the new devestator will be good. The current 184 is a great DD. While the 194 is the best chopped up snow ski ever. My guess is that they dumb down the 194 and make both lighter. I really hate this trend of making everything lighter. Rossi is a great example of a company that was making great skis. Sickle and squad 7. Then they went to the air tip construction and now they're skis are crap. Sure they moved a ton of soul 7s but they lost customers who liked other designs. I understand that 4frnt need to capture sales to a different audience. Well then make a ski for that audience. And continue to make the skis that have made the brand what it is. Pretty much zero confidence in jlev.

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Bwahahaa. So every ski company should always make your favorite models as is forever? Or would you prefer they just consult you before changing them?

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**altacoup** · 12-26-2018, 10:23 AM

^^^ I've stated here many times that what I really appreciated about 4frnt is that they kept to their designs. My solution will be to buy the skis on the market that I like simple as that. Right now I like 4frnt. I have 8 pairs currently. I'll probably pick up another 194 devestator. But I have zero confidence in jlev.

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**kathleenturneroverdrive** · 12-26-2018, 11:13 AM

JLev said 4FRNT had no $ when he took over - what would you do in his shoes? Double down on the same skis year in and year out selling less and less of them?

(My comments have nothing to do with the renegade screw up - that seems like a legit manufacturing error)

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**skinipenem** · 12-26-2018, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive

JLev said 4FRNT had no $ when he took over - what would you do in his shoes? Double down on the same skis year in and year out selling less and less of them?

(My comments have nothing to do with the renegade screw up - that seems like a legit manufacturing error)

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That's assuming the skis were the reason for 4frnt underperforming financially. Hard to believe that was the problem. They make great skiis for pros and beginners. The arethra is one of the easiest to ski women's ski in existence, IMHO.

I'd be delighted if they make a 190 devastator. While mainting the dampness.

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**kathleenturneroverdrive** · 12-26-2018, 11:59 AM

Even if the skis weren’t the issue you still have to change and update your models every few years.

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**Best Mexican Skier from Da South** · 12-26-2018, 05:24 PM

Summary of this thread:

One side critisizes 4FRNT for Bastard Renegade questioning new ownership.

One side defends 4FRNT on all accounts like SJW’s defending Oprah.

**altacoup** · 12-26-2018, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive

Even if the skis weren’t the issue you still have to change and update your models every few years.

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My point has always been that what really set 4frnt apart and in my opinion made them my preferred ski company is that they didn't update stuff every few years just for the sake of updating. I see jlev moving 4frnt in the direction of the big name ski companies. Maybe it'll work. But I doubt it. He loses core buyers but has to compete with the big boys for soul 7, qst 106 sales. That's a tough one. My point is that 4frnt should continue making their great skis and develop some other models to compete with the big boys. But more realistically his goal is to shore up the brand to sell it.

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**Supermoon** · 12-26-2018, 07:40 PM

Devastators are now, what, 6 years old? That’s a pretty good run for a ski. Tech and styles have changed a lot since then. I assume their athletes are the ones driving the updates still.

**altacoup** · 12-26-2018, 08:47 PM

^^^
True. If it's truly athlete driven I'd be behind it even if in the end I don't like the ski. I could envision a flat surface being better for jibbing than reflect tech. Personally I'm a huge fan of reflect tech. All the 4frnt skis with this tech ski really well, even if numbers of sidecut to rocker don't anyways match exactly. I really want to see 4frnt succeed. I'm just worried about jlevs goals and intentions.

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