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  1. #151
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    20
    Taking another look at the skis today. If I measure them along the base including rocker they are 184cm. But straight up height they are 182cm.
    I also weighed the skis with a digital lab scale. And they weighed 1875 grams. The website says 1990g for the 184cm.
    So was the 100 grams some manufacturing mistake?

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,496
    Quote Originally Posted by powderslave View Post
    So was the 100 grams some manufacturing mistake?
    Post #105.
    They used a thinner base & edge material

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    20
    Yeah but the weight for my skis are suppose to be 1990g. But they come in at 1875. Was a mistake made and they are just trying to deal with it.

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,496
    So...minus the hundo for thinner base/ edge... 15 grams off doesn't seem too bad to me. There's gonna be some variance there

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    4,844
    Quote Originally Posted by powderslave View Post
    Yeah but the weight for my skis are suppose to be 1990g. But they come in at 1875. Was a mistake made and they are just trying to deal with it.
    Itís becoming a touring only ski. If I wanted that Iíd buy hoji or ravens. I wanted resort crusher. Maybe I put shifts on em instead and run 186 inbounds
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16

    2018/2019 (2/4)

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    So...minus the hundo for thinner base/ edge... 15 grams off doesn't seem too bad to me. There's gonna be some variance there
    Thereís no way they would decide last minute to lighten the ski and reduce the stiffness. Unless they didnít think it would change the stiffness. But everything was marketed at 1990 g. Why would they change?? Somethings fishy.

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by whyturn View Post
    Itís becoming a touring only ski. If I wanted that Iíd buy hoji or ravens. I wanted resort crusher. Maybe I put shifts on em instead and run 186 inbounds
    I want a resort charger in the backcountry!

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,990
    Paging J Lev to the fully rockered courtesy phone

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,496
    Quote Originally Posted by powderslave View Post
    There’s no way they would decide last minute to lighten the ski and reduce the stiffness. Unless they didn’t think it would change the stiffness. But everything was marketed at 1990 g. Why would they change?? Somethings fishy.
    I don't have an answer for you.
    Somebody fkd up and specified wrong material?
    JLev believes all y'all truly are dentists?
    Insert other conspiracy theories here_____...

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,663
    Quote Originally Posted by powderslave View Post
    Thereís no way they would decide last minute to lighten the ski and reduce the stiffness. Unless they didnít think it would change the stiffness. But everything was marketed at 1990 g. Why would they change?? Somethings fishy.
    Quote Originally Posted by powderslave View Post
    Yeah but the weight for my skis are suppose to be 1990g. But they come in at 1875. Was a mistake made and they are just trying to deal with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by reckless toboggan View Post
    Or someone checked off the wrong boxes for base and edge selection on the order form at the new factory and 4frnt is making lemons out of lemonade.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    64
    Seems a lot like supply chain headaches that are getting passed onto the customer.

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    42
    Are the new Renegades waaay softer than first heavy generation(crow/owl) at least hand flex?

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    1,564
    Quote Originally Posted by KyleLanTheman View Post
    Seems a lot like supply chain headaches that are getting passed onto the customer.
    Hmm, seems like a bad business model and I'd have hoped they'd learned from their past mistakes to avoid this. I will say, to their credit, it seems like they are trying to get ahead of the curve this time and tell consumers directly prior to delivery, rather than hoping nobody notices.

    Wondering if they'll chime in on this thread. Was cool to see them interact with us (the forum) directly last time there was an issue with a pair of Renegades.

    Thoughts 4FRNT?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDingleberry View Post
    pissing in a sink? fucking rookies. Shit in an oven, then you'll be pro.

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Your couch?
    Posts
    162
    Im pretty bummed out. Whilst it's sweet they've come clean the timing is pretty poor. Im kind if caught short because I need skis, I'm tempted to buy something else and have it as a back up and return one of them. Hopefully not the 4frnt because I was stoked to go back to them, I even bought a branded hat.

    Anyone reached out to them?
    Anything to be gained from inviting them in here?

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,663
    Nobody should be bummed...yet.

    They have a guarantee.

    Mount them.

    Ski them.

    Return them for a full refund if they aren't what you wanted.

    Sometimes a ski is more than the sum of its parts. Sometimes. When they are, like the EHP and the Renegade, you hoard them. That's right hoard.

    Go give the new Renegades a serious shot. Leave an honest review here. It'll be good information for the mags and for the future of 4frnt.
    Last edited by reckless toboggan; 12-06-2018 at 07:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  16. #166
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    3,752
    Quote Originally Posted by phallic-menace View Post
    Im pretty bummed out. Whilst it's sweet they've come clean the timing is pretty poor. Im kind if caught short because I need skis, I'm tempted to buy something else and have it as a back up and return one of them. Hopefully not the 4frnt because I was stoked to go back to them, I even bought a branded hat.

    Anyone reached out to them?
    Anything to be gained from inviting them in here?
    sorry for the thread drift but your username is amazing

  17. #167
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    58
    At 220 lbs and 6'1", my first concession was still ordering the ski with no 196 cm size. Now, the 15% softer flex.

    Screw me. I've planned so much around the delivery of a good product... Even ordered the new Raven to complement the Ren.

    2 sets of CAST Freetour bindings coming mid December for the Raven and Ren.

    First year with Matt gone, and they fuck up production. Damnit.

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,261
    Quote Originally Posted by reckless toboggan View Post
    Nobody should be bummed...yet.

    They have a guarantee.

    Mount them.

    Ski them.

    Return them for a full refund if they aren't what you wanted.

    Sometimes a ski is more than the sum of its parts. Sometimes. When they are, like the EHP and the Renegade, you hoard them. That's right hoard.

    Go give the new Renegades a serious shot. Leave an honest review here. It'll be good information for the mags and for the future of 4frnt.
    What he ^^^ said.

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    entrapped
    Posts
    781
    I've read all the renegades threads... and couldn't find an answer....

    I've got owls 196. Best ski lines ever on those skis. But definitely love and hate relationship. Love them on steep pow lines. Hate them on chopped up bumps. Hate when they nose dive on low angle pow. End up reverting to high speed wheelies to avoid the nose dive on low angle pow. Let's face it: these are the best steep pow skis ever for going mach looney, tubing oneself in snow slarve heaven, and making everyone else jealous as f#$! But I'm not that big of a guy and get hammered the rest of the time on them.

    I've wished for less swing weight, 191cm length, and less nose dive when skiing more moderate speeds/lower angles.

    Any comparisons on the 2018 196cm vs owls? (Bit of thread drift here i know, but contemplating demoing a pair of the new 191cm next time i drive up to slc and would like to know how the 2018s ski before trying the 2019s.)



    Sent from my SM-G935V using TGR Forums mobile app
    No matter where you go, there you are. - BB

  20. #170
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Alta
    Posts
    273
    I hear what you say on the 196 owls. They're too much ski at Alta. Great at the bird for the first 2 hours on a pow day. I generally ski a long stiff skis. But the 186 Ren is my ideal resort pow ski. Even for big guys I think it would work great. 196 would be great in AK but on anything less than 35 degrees they suffer and bumps are damn near suicidal. 4frnt is no longer in slc and from what I can tell us impossible to demo them now. I've been a huge 4frnt fan. But this new news about the renegade really bums me out. Best thing about 4frnt is that they develop a good ski and don't ruin or discontinue it. Like the majority of companies do. Really bummed that they've fucked with the best pow ski ever. Hopefully they rectify and bring back the og Ren. I love the ones with hals construction. And if they bring back the ehp to I'll promise never to buy skis from another company again.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  21. #171
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by reckless toboggan View Post
    Nobody should be bummed...yet.

    They have a guarantee.

    Mount them.

    Ski them.

    Return them for a full refund if they aren't what you wanted.

    Sometimes a ski is more than the sum of its parts. Sometimes. When they are, like the EHP and the Renegade, you hoard them. That's right hoard.

    Go give the new Renegades a serious shot. Leave an honest review here. It'll be good information for the mags and for the future of 4frnt.
    So spend 50$ to mount. Ski them a couple times , then pay yo ship them back get a different pair pay another 50$ to mount. And maybe have a pair you like by spring.

    Sounds like they are going to stiffen them up. Keeping the same thinner base and edge, but working on the core.
    The Hoji is now stiffer then the renegade!

  22. #172
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Schruns
    Posts
    607
    #Mountyourownskis

    But it does seem like a mistake. They've been marketing thick bases and edges ever since the old Line days.

    Maybe this is the year to scoop up the really touring oriented version, before they fix them.

  23. #173
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,261
    Quote Originally Posted by powderslave View Post
    So spend 50$ to mount. Ski them a couple times , then pay yo ship them back get a different pair pay another 50$ to mount. And maybe have a pair you like by spring.
    Yeah, this is the non-financial burden not being recognized by 4FRNT, or perhaps why their return policy isn't industry-standard. We spend our year prepping for moments. We can't get those moments back. I live in Japan and if I don't have my gear dialed for Jan/Feb then I will fail to deliver on the previous 10 months worth of dreaming.

    And then I'm sitting at the dinner table across from my family trying to justify our lifestyle. It's kind of like blowing your knee but having insurance to pay the bill.

    "Good thing we're not broke!"
    "Right." (I don't know why I'm living anymore, but okay.)

    I think it's an awesome return policy! Should be standard. And in return perhaps we should all swallow our own selfish pill that skiers (and surfers) are some of the most selfish people on the planet.

    "This is my moment!"

    If only we could get them to turn back time. Then I'd definitely buy their product.
    Last edited by gaijin; 12-07-2018 at 07:21 AM.

  24. #174
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    4,844
    My thoughts since I woke up to early this morning

    Hoji is a designer now and not a manufacturer (not overseeing process and QC) - previous builds in white room then elan
    Hoji is not on social media so we will not hear form him (maybe someone else at 4frnt will step up - hint hint)

    This was a last second change in renegade production or it would have been brought up way sooner
    Therefore either 4frnt screwed up on order or Utopie screwed up product manufacturing
    Either way its unfortunate since 191 Renegade seemed like a great balance between 186 tree killer and 196 AK killer

    Bottom line, if there is anything I've learned being on TGR this many years is
    "Transparency goes along way"
    Yah you may get hammered for building a bad product that people waited a long time to ski
    but at least you wont get blacklisted for trying to pawn off a bad product you knew had problems

    The email from 4Frnt did not seem like full disclosure
    A last minute change we did not know about vs oh crap we just QC'd first pairs and Houston we have a problem!
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16

    2018/2019 (2/4)

  25. #175
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    58
    For those that have skiíd the Rens previously, would anyone welcome a 15% softer flex?

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