2019 4frnt Renegade Changes?

[Supermoon]

Every model in that era (that wasn’t a White Room Ski) got stiffer the second year. The CRJ, CODY, and I think even one model of the KYE. I think it was probably Elan not quite getting the desired flex right in production.

[undertow2]

Totally. They both accelerate, turn and and shut things down down quicker than my old Atomic Atlas 192s. I think Rens are overblown as a ‘game on’ ski, they are not hard to use in their intended environment.

I also thought those Kyle 110s hand flexed soft. Never skied them tho.

Completely agree... My 196s are not demanding to aki at all... Where they can run me into the ground a bit is by the end of the day and when the mountain is primarily tracked out... To date my absolute best ski days are on my 196s with nothing to compare to them... I have yet to ski a ski that is so friction less and than the only other ski that shuts down as well as them are my OG Bodes...

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[sf]

Direct link to the friflyt review?

Ive always found the old rengade to be the easiest ski in the world to ski. So intuitive, as long as you're skiing centred and dont get hung up with old school style.

If the tip is soft when mine arrive in the post I think I'll send them straight back. I threw a pair of yellow and black kye 110 in the bin because they had a soft tip that folded and hooked

Password-protected and text only in Norwegian.
Screenshots of specs

[phallic-menace]

That's low scoring for turning and stability. The 2 things that the old ones excelled at if skied the right way

[SUPERIOR]

The Blister Podcast has a lengthy and detailed description by Hoji of the new Renegade and reasons for changing it.


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[reckless toboggan]

The Blister Podcast has a lengthy and detailed description by Hoji of the new Renegade and reasons for changing it.


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This new information that 4frnt just emailed to people who purchased the new 191 Renegade about using a 1.3 mm base material and 2 mm edges, thereby reducing the weight by 100g and softening the flex by 15%, was not discussed in the podcast and was not noted on the 4frnt website.

It's also pretty concerning that, if I'm reading the skitest.com images posted above correctly, the 191 length actually measures 186, and the flex is 44434.

Sounds like an intermediate blue run powder ski to me, especially when compared to what the Renegade has been up to now.

[gaijin]

Gotta admit, the numbers above are kind of gut-wrenching. When I first heard of the changes, I was skeptical. I just never could imagine the Ren being any "easier" to ski... and thought 4FRNT was likely trying to make the ski more accessible to skiers who move a bit slower.

I have two friends who disliked the Ren due to its planky-ness. So a shorter, turnier build made sense to me if they want to increase sales. But now it's softer? I hope that's a typo.

Shorter, turnier, more rocker, and softer? That sounds like four of the opposite things I would do to the Ren I have now. ('13 Owls, 186, #845)

We are really waiting for one of you kids to get it on the snow!

/armchair-internet-skier

[waxoff]

It's also pretty concerning that, if I'm reading the skitest.com images posted above correctly, the 191 length actually measures 186, and the flex is 44434.

It should be read as it's the 184 that's been tested and measured to 186, with an 191 length also available.

For reference, the 2014 186 was measured 186 cm at 2338 grams with a 66655 flex index.

[powderslave]

Got the email yesterday, I ordered the 184cm because it was suppose to be for touring only. Got the skis today. They are soft. Very soft. I was on faction ct 4.0 last season and stopped using them after six tours. Hated them. Soft tails washed out. Unlike my older faction Royale and 3zeroes , which both are very stiff and fun to rip.
So I went back to my old cambered black diamond justice for rest of the season. Heard 4frnt renegade made a nice rockered stiff ski. So was stoked to try them. Not sure I want to drill them. I really don’t think Hoji could of skied these skis the way he skis. Wonder if his models were stiffer ???
Are the hojis just as soft?
Plus they only measure 182cm. Why the fuck do ski companies do that now. I would of ordered 191 Cm to get a 188.
My old black diamonds are 185cm. They measure exactly 185cm

[reckless toboggan]

It should be read as it's the 184 that's been tested and measured to 186, with an 191 length also available.

For reference, the 2014 186 was measured 186 cm at 2338 grams with a 66655 flex index.

Thanks for the clarification.

Got the email yesterday, I ordered the 184cm because it was suppose to be for touring only. Got the skis today. They are soft. Very soft. I was on faction ct 4.0 last season and stopped using them after six tours. Hated them. Soft tails washed out. Unlike my older faction Royale and 3zeroes , which both are very stiff and fun to rip.
So I went back to my old cambered black diamond justice for rest of the season. Heard 4frnt renegade made a nice rockered stiff ski. So was stoked to try them. Not sure I want to drill them. I really don’t think Hoji could of skied these skis the way he skis. Wonder if his models were stiffer ???
Are the hojis just as soft?
Plus they only measure 182cm. Why the fuck do ski companies do that now. I would of ordered 191 Cm to get a 188.
My old black diamonds are 185cm. They measure exactly 185cm

Thanks for the initial impressions. Pretty disappointing.

Eric ran/runs stock skis or protos that were to be released the next year. Given your description, it's difficult for me to imagine him skiing the new production run skis given his style, power, and speed.

The Faction 3Zeros ripped. Fun ski.

[SUPERIOR]

You guys are basing your conversation on reviews from a Norwegian ski mag and a couple hand flexes? I’d be surprised if Hoji put his name to a noodle ski that underperforms... unless it’s a true manufacturing defect. Maybe somebody should get JLev back on this forum to talk about it.


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[reckless toboggan]

You guys are basing your conversation on reviews from a Norwegian ski mag and a couple hand flexes? I’d be surprised if Hoji put his name to a noodle ski that underperforms... unless it’s a true manufacturing defect. Maybe somebody should get JLev back on this forum to talk about it.


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RTFM.

Weird email on my order form 4frnt

Thank you for supporting 4FRNT and picking up a fresh pair of the redesigned Renegades for this season and for your patience.

Before we ship the skis, we want to make you aware of a construction change we didn’t previously note on our website at the time you ordered. We used a thinner base and edge (1.3mm Base and 2mm edge) to lighten the ski by approximately 100gr, which also resulted the ski being approximately 15% softer than previous years.

We apologize for not giving you a heads up earlier. Due to these changes, we’re giving you 3 options:

1) Please ship me the Renegade skis as is
2) Ship me a different pair of my choice and receive $100 refund
3) Cancel and refund my order

Remember all of our skis come with a money back guarantee so if at any point after riding them, they’re not right for you, hit us back and we’ll take care of you!

Please let us know how to proceed?

All the best.

I went ahead due to warranty and I figure Hoji would not design a bad ski

[monkeywrenchMoose]

Gotta say, 4FRNT's manufacturing doesn't really inspire confidence. I have a pair of OG 186 Rens. When I bought them, second hand as a young buck (read: punk), I remember being mildly disappointed that the tails were different shapes (one more pintail, one more rounded). Sort of understandable given that they were first year White Room productions. No matter, as it didn't really have any appreciable difference on the way they ski.

Prior to that I remember there were a bunch of production delays and people were upset that they weren't being updated on ETA.

Now there are more shipping(?) delays. And apparently last minute "design changes" (or perhaps manufacturing defects?) that will surely affect durability and have, by 4FRNT's own admission, changed one of the defining characteristics of the ski?

Some things I think about when I am not skiing in the middle of the week...

[SUPERIOR]

Seems like you guys have the warranty to fall back on, and the 100% worry free guarantee... I’ve been considering the Renegades as a Japow ski. Will be very interested to hear feedback from someone who skis it.

After listening to the podcast, and hearing Eric’s description of the ski, his research process, and learning about the marketing that is going into this product in conjunction with the movie, I’d be extremely surprised if this was a bomb...

[sf]

You guys are basing your conversation on reviews from a Norwegian ski mag and a couple hand flexes? I’d be surprised if Hoji put his name to a noodle ski that underperforms... unless it’s a true manufacturing defect. Maybe somebody should get JLev back on this forum to talk about it.


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Not my intention to scare people off here. It should be noted that.....

1) While I tend to agree with a lot of their reviews, there is a also a few examples of them not liking skis that are very well liked around here. Case in point, Billygoats. And in no way are they as careful as Blister in their consideration of detuning and mount point.

However.... They liked the old Rens, and also Hojis, Ravens and EHPs

2) Be aware that their flex index is totally different from Blister. While 95% of the skis Blister review seem to be between 8 and 9,5, Friflyt use 5 as the average of every ski ever reviewed (it will change over time).

I'd say a even 5 would be similar to a praxis 3+, maybe a tiny bit stiffer in the tip. An even 4 is probably like a 3-, but I'm just guessing.
You seldom see numbers below 3 and above 7-8. I think the Dynastar Cham tails were 9s. The old Bluehouse Shoots were 10 or 11 underfoot.....

For example, If I guess, a wrenegade108 would be 67765, tail to tip.

[kid-kapow]

just to piggy back on commenting on FriFlyt's test - I have the distinct feeling that they as a group clearly prefer one type of skis / skiing characteristics over other and test skis from a conscious bench mark, rather than Blister's "well, let's find out how this ski skis, and compare it to the field".

Case in point - K2 skis pretty much won or did exceedingly well in every category of FriFlyt's ski tests last year. I am not saying that K2 do not make awesome skis, but when a single brand - and a brand that has a lot more sidecut and width variability in their designs than a lot of other designs - wins across the board, to me it suggest a clear preference on the side of the testers, or use in terrain/snow that very clearly fits or promotes one ski geometry over others as most ski brands have a design philosophy that run through their entire line. (or it could just mean that K2 nailed it, but me being the sceptic am more prone to leaning toward biases etc )

I might be completely wrong though, having never skied K2s, having only compared their specs to other skis and fondled/hand flexed them - but still, it is my impression that they primarily focus on easy to ski and easy to turn shapes that floats well due to wide tips. And again, do not get me wrong - there is nothing wrong in that design philosophy, especially when you are a major brand wanting to sell one gazzilion skis. However, unless K2 have done something magical preventing the back side of the coin, K2 designs could be turny at mach loony and hang up in variable snow - meaning, you do not usually only get the benefits of a design without any of the drawbacks. Again, having never skied them I might be completely wrong, also seeing patterns that might or might not be evident is a basic human fallacy / bias, so again, it might just be me. Or it might be that the skis primarily where tested in a way that makes those attributes shine, be it due to limited use or primarily testing skis at slower speeds on groomers or whatever. The results just seems off/skewed.

I just know that FriFlyt is not where I go for finding info on skis.

Then again, FriFlyt beats the marketing drivel Powder and Freeskier magazines call tests every day of the week. P/F's work is embarrassingly close adverts, and they lean on the broh brah angle way too much in this year's flicks. Admittedly, I am probably not who they are trying to educate and I do kind of still enjoy their movies and their descriptions, but I have zero problems understanding the rise of Blister and their approach to ski testing after spending any amount of time at P/F's web sites. Not to be overly critical or anything.

I am looking forward to hearing how people get on with the new Ravens. The past iteration of that design was on my short list of skis to test, so it will be interesting to see if they made something good even better, or did a Bibby trying to improve something that already was very good

[Adrgha]

Not my intention to scare people off here. It should be noted that.....

1) While I tend to agree with a lot of their reviews, there is a also a few examples of them not liking skis that are very well liked around here. Case in point, Billygoats. And in no way are they as careful as Blister in their consideration of detuning and mount point.

However.... They liked the old Rens, and also Hojis, Ravens and EHPs

2) Be aware that their flex index is totally different from Blister. While 95% of the skis Blister review seem to be between 8 and 9,5, Friflyt use 5 as the average of every ski ever reviewed (it will change over time).

I'd say a even 5 would be similar to a praxis 3+, maybe a tiny bit stiffer in the tip. An even 4 is probably like a 3-, but I'm just guessing.
You seldom see numbers below 3 and above 7-8. I think the Dynastar Cham tails were 9s. The old Bluehouse Shoots were 10 or 11 underfoot.....

For example, If I guess, a wrenegade108 would be 67765, tail to tip.

I generally find their reviews pretty good, but their Billygoat test is honestly one of their odder ones. I just can't understand how they could think they're hard to turn and that they felt heavy. I always thought the BG is one of my most easy going skis, and that they felt pretty light compared to how heavy they actually are.

Their ski flex measurements are pretty neat though. They measure this with some contraption built by Endre Hals IIRC?

[sf]

I generally find their reviews pretty good, but their Billygoat test is honestly one of their odder ones. I just can't understand how they could think they're hard to turn and that they felt heavy. I always thought the BG is one of my most easy going skis, and that they felt pretty light compared to how heavy they actually are.

Their ski flex measurements are pretty neat though. They measure this with some contraption built by Endre Hals IIRC?

Correct

http://www.eviski.com/Index.aspx?Pag...stsList,Page=1

[stuntmanbo]

The Friflyt review was made on a 2018 186 "Ren 2.0." proto (see pic), which has a true length of 186.
The production 184 powderslave got are 182. So not the same ski, can't really trust that review for the 2019 production Ren.
Looks like the production one is even softer than the one reviewed.





I have the 2014 and like them a lot. Wouldnt mind to try the 16/17/18 (white) ones just a bit lighter since I'm pretty light. But not those ones ...

[gaijin]

The Speculation Cloud is heavy right now. We're all biting at the bit, hungry for our gig. This frustration in numbers on paper is leading me to my survival strategy of telling everyone to shut up until we get some on-snow comparisons by accomplished & veteran Ren riders.

In the meantime-- can we all acknowledge how a transparent production process is even allowing this conversation? This didn't exist when I was a kid.

[Best Mexican Skier from Da South]

As a 220 lb and 6'1" dude, it's concerning to see a softer flex. I ski the Dev's as my go to resort ski and love the flex on them.

Anyone have suggestions on a ski will fit the BC rocketship niche that is/used to be the Ren? I'm waiting to get the ski in my hands and flex it side by side with my Dev's before making the decision to bail on the Ren.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

For touring I’d probably build an UL/carbon Protest or maybe Quixote to get a similar feel to the old Ren. The 190 Black Crow Nocta could be an option at a lower price although I’ve never skied it and the radius is only 26m so I could be wrong.


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[Supermoon]

As a 220 lb and 6'1" dude, it's concerning to see a softer flex. I ski the Dev's as my go to resort ski and love the flex on them.

Anyone have suggestions on a ski will fit the BC rocketship niche that is/used to be the Ren? I'm waiting to get the ski in my hands and flex it side by side with my Dev's before making the decision to bail on the Ren.

Last year’s Rens?

[Best Mexican Skier from Da South]

Last year’s Rens?

How does one acquire a last year model?

[Self Jupiter]

There’s a bunch of Rens for sale here on GS