2019 4frnt Renegade Changes?

[JRainey]

The 177 raven is the shape/weight/length I’ve been waiting years for (without paying thru the nose for the volkl bmt), so definitely hoping it’s not some fucked up new construction

Yeah, that should be good with super light bindings for longer mission with skis that still truck.

Like the old Down 102s/CD5?

[Banh Mi]

Lol at the new dev weighing 2100 in 194.

Also why do the inthane and hoji weigh the same?

They dropped 500 grams per ski in the Dev!? That’s over a pound in each ski. That’s too bad, I wont be buying anytime soon .

At least all the freestyle kids and jerrys will like it better now.

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[JRainey]

They dropped 500 grams per ski in the Dev!? That’s over a pound in each ski. That’s too bad, I wont be buying anytime soon .

At least all the freestyle kids and jerrys will like it better now.

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The 184 is quoted at 2100g.

[Banh Mi]

Whoops. I saw pretzels comment on the 194.

Looks like the 194 is 2275. A little better, but on the line for me as an inbounds ski. The only reason I was so intrigued by the Devs was that 2600g/ski weight! But I’m sure im in the minority


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[XavierD]

But I’m sure im in the minority

Without a doubt. Most folks can count more ski days per year than pairs of skis purchased per year...

[Banh Mi]

Lol. That was good. But I ski 100 days a year an only buy 99 pairs, so technically..

I actually do pay retail for certain skis though, if they really intrigue me. I did that for 191 Monsters, hoping it would help keep them around... and now they are gone


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[mr_pretzel]

Woops looks like i misread, will edit post

[meter-man]

Last year's 184 Raven 4FRNT claimed 1770 grams, and my pair was within 20 grams of that.

This year's 184 stated weight 1825 grams. The marketing copy for the core is same as that for the Ren, so not sure if it's right... The rest of the dims look the same as last year.

[smooth operator]

Without a doubt. Most folks can count more ski days per year than pairs of skis purchased per year...

LOL

[Banh Mi]

The weight reduction in the Devastators comes from the switch to poplar and beech wood cores. That is what the Katanas use, and those are plenty stable for me, without being super heavy. These new ones could be sweet actually, and 2300g is still enough for smashing through crud.


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[margotron]

Still curious if the Raven is unchanged or f'd up...


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[Norseman]

Without a doubt. Most folks can count more ski days per year than pairs of skis purchased per year...

Haha.

[XavierD]

Still curious if the Raven is unchanged or f'd up...


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I keep flipping back and forth on this. Heavier and Im not sure if it has more reverse camber than in previous years.

[4FRNT_Skis]

Hey Folks.


Apologies for neglecting you all with clear answers straight from the source. It was a good read catching up on all this, and we're thankful to have some real core followers in this thread.


We did move production of all the Whiteroom skis to Utopie in Canada purely because our small facility in Salt Lake could not produce the amount of demand we had for those models. We had the whole crew up on Mt. Hood this summer, and all of us, Eric and Thayne especially, were beyond stoked with both the build quality and performance of the skis out of Canada. Eric is naturally hyped to see "made in Canada" written on his skis.


We are investing more into the Whiteroom this season. We are utilizing it as a straight up prototyping facility. If an athlete has an idea, we build and put it to snow in 2 weeks. Having this facility be dialed in for only this purpose will allow us to test future technology and shapes that will continue and progress freeride skiing.


Lets begin with the Renegade. Eric has been working to reshape this ski for the past 2 years, so this development and change was quite literally taking shape well before JLev got involved. As you all know the Renegade is pretty much Eric's everyday ski, the fortunes of skiing fresh powder day in day out. He wanted his personal ski to run at a 184 cm, and we weren't about to do a 10 cm size difference, so thats how we landed at a 191 cm for the longer length. Eric was also looking for the ski to perform better a lower speeds, hence the reason to cut the radius down to 30 m, this helps bring this ski more in line with the rest of his series. They will all feel similar, now your choice can be somewhat based on how much and deep of powder you plan on being in.


As for the Raven, there has been no major design changes to this ski from the previous year. Since we had to make new molds with Utopie we took the opportunity to again dial in the size range of this ski.


We know the devastator has a cult like following, and our intention with using lighter core materials was just to bring it up to date with new materials that we know work. We had athletes who live and die by the Devastators out on the new lighter models all last season, they ensured we were not taking any steps backwards and only made changes that enhance the performance of the skis.


Let us know any thought or questions you might have. We will be more attentive to all you passionate folks here on TGR.

This is Dan here, the new brand manager. If anyone wants to get in touch directly, you can contact me either by email : dan@4frnt.com or phone : 801.975.9500 ex. 3

[stuntmanbo]

I don't know how was the 17/18 raven but if you compare to the 2016 (for a 184).

2019 - Tip Height 90mm - Tail Height 37mm
2016 - Tip Height 63mm - Tail Height 21mm

27mm more ! So now the Raven tip is as high as the Renegade one.

I sold my 2014 Hoji's because they were too much rockered for my taste and were scary on icy exposed traverse.

Now it looks like the Renegade and the Raven have the same camber as the Hoji from previous years. Even more reverse cambered actually (vs the old Hoji).

If you only tour in powder it's fine I guess, but I wouldn't use a ski like that for touring in mixed conditions with some exposed stuff. And for touring in powder especially in America I guess you take a wider ski.

Actually I had a 2016 Raven, a 2014 Hoji, a 2014 Renegade.
I sold both the Raven and the Hoji.
The Hoji would have been great with the rocker profile of the Raven/Renegade, IMO.
But they did the opposite, put the Hoji rocker profile on the Raven and Renegade.

I kept the 2014 Renegade and they're holding strong.

A 96mm tip height for the 191 Renegade it's huge, I'm not sure it's gonna be as frictionless and fast as the old one, but who knows, we'll see ... Depends of the flex as well, since it's the light construction I guess it's not going to be super stiff.

Anyway at 300$ for the shipping plus taxes to Europe, I'm not buying.

[whyturn]

I’m interested in the 191 renegade since 186 was too small and 196 was a beast. Maybe if we get 10 pairs they can do a mag discount

[racesla]

Hey Folks.


Apologies for neglecting you all with clear answers straight from the source. It was a good read catching up on all this, and we're thankful to have some real core followers in this thread.


We did move production of all the Whiteroom skis to Utopie in Canada purely because our small facility in Salt Lake could not produce the amount of demand we had for those models. We had the whole crew up on Mt. Hood this summer, and all of us, Eric and Thayne especially, were beyond stoked with both the build quality and performance of the skis out of Canada. Eric is naturally hyped to see "made in Canada" written on his skis.


We are investing more into the Whiteroom this season. We are utilizing it as a straight up prototyping facility. If an athlete has an idea, we build and put it to snow in 2 weeks. Having this facility be dialed in for only this purpose will allow us to test future technology and shapes that will continue and progress freeride skiing.


Lets begin with the Renegade. Eric has been working to reshape this ski for the past 2 years, so this development and change was quite literally taking shape well before JLev got involved. As you all know the Renegade is pretty much Eric's everyday ski, the fortunes of skiing fresh powder day in day out. He wanted his personal ski to run at a 184 cm, and we weren't about to do a 10 cm size difference, so thats how we landed at a 191 cm for the longer length. Eric was also looking for the ski to perform better a lower speeds, hence the reason to cut the radius down to 30 m, this helps bring this ski more in line with the rest of his series. They will all feel similar, now your choice can be somewhat based on how much and deep of powder you plan on being in.


As for the Raven, there has been no major design changes to this ski from the previous year. Since we had to make new molds with Utopie we took the opportunity to again dial in the size range of this ski.


We know the devastator has a cult like following, and our intention with using lighter core materials was just to bring it up to date with new materials that we know work. We had athletes who live and die by the Devastators out on the new lighter models all last season, they ensured we were not taking any steps backwards and only made changes that enhance the performance of the skis.


Let us know any thought or questions you might have. We will be more attentive to all you passionate folks here on TGR.

This is Dan here, the new brand manager. If anyone wants to get in touch directly, you can contact me either by email : dan@4frnt.com or phone : 801.975.9500 ex. 3

Thanks for connecting with us Dan.

[JRainey]

Anyway at 300$ for the shipping plus taxes to Europe, I'm not buying.

Yeah, it's easy to say you include duties when you charge $300 for shipping. I see a decent amount of 4frnts over here, and think the market is strong, especially scandos.

I personally imported all of mine from USA to Europe over the years, but a euro distro would sell some skis!

[muted]

So this whole thread is about all the changes between yearly models, but what about a quick primer on what ski does what well for 4front newbs? (Dan, the descriptions on the website aren't too precise and some are too similar, like the Raven and Hoji.) I can guess the differences based on the ski dimensions, true, but any real-world feedback from skiers here on what does what well?

I'm trying to find a daily driver that does cut-up and powder well, here in Utah. Any super-deep days I have the 191cm QST 118, a very non-traditional ski IMO. Any low-tide conditions I have some Rossi Experience 100s, a very traditional ski IMO which doesn't hold up at high speeds but I paid $100 so no regrets and they rip groomers like a beast, also do OK in bumps, and normal speed turns. So what's filling the gap for me?

Looks like the MSP 107 or Hoji, but the MSP is a bit short and a smaller turning radius, and the Hoji is more sidecountry oriented? Renegade seems similar to my QST 118s so that's out, curious about them though, maybe stiffer than the QST and more versatile ?

[meter-man]

For prior model years...
The 3 Hoji models are all based on full reverse camber profiles.
Ren - deep pow charger. 122 underfoot. 35m radius (now 30m).
Hoji - mellow-speed, pow surfing.
Raven - shaped like a narrow Ren. All-around tourer that skis pow and hardpack well.

MSP series is more of an all-mountain design with camber and titanal. 21m radius seems too tight on paper - but need to try in the field.

Based on what you're saying, if you looking for an on-mountain 'tweener, I'd go MSP 107. If you're looking for a sidecounty/tour-y soft snow surfer, I'd go Hoji. Hoji model doesn't seem as attuned to on-mountain moguls, chop, and crud as the MSP.

I'm looking at an MSP 107, along with Praxis Freeride, Deathwish, and some other options for a daily driver here in CA.

[muted]

For prior model years...
The 3 Hoji models are all based on full reverse camber profiles.
Ren - deep pow charger. 122 underfoot. 35m radius (now 30m).
Hoji - mellow-speed, pow surfing.
Raven - shaped like a narrow Ren. All-around tourer that skis pow and hardpack well.

MSP series is more of an all-mountain design with camber and titanal. 21m radius seems too tight on paper - but need to try in the field.

Based on what you're saying, if you looking for an on-mountain 'tweener, I'd go MSP 107. If you're looking for a sidecounty/tour-y soft snow surfer, I'd go Hoji. Hoji model doesn't seem as attuned to on-mountain moguls, chop, and crud as the MSP.

I'm looking at an MSP 107, along with Praxis Freeride, Deathwish, and some other options for a daily driver here in CA.

Thanks! Yeah, the 21m radius might be perfectly fine on the 107, I'll have to see. but there doesn't seem to be anything obvious in their line up that works for me. Weird.

[buenonda]

this is 96mm shovel
I have the strong feeling it's impossible to match with the renegade caracteristics, specially neutral feeling at speed and ease to take it

something must ne strong on the site numbers

[stuntmanbo]

Yeah, it's easy to say you include duties when you charge $300 for shipping. I see a decent amount of 4frnts over here, and think the market is strong, especially scandos.

I personally imported all of mine from USA to Europe over the years, but a euro distro would sell some skis!

Exactly.
Shipping from US to EU should be maybe 80$, something like that.
Then duties for one pair of ski would be like 120$ in most countries, 60$ in Switzerland.
So they're making a nice profit of 100 / 150 usd on their EU customers for the shipping.

Personally I bought my 3 pairs from Sport Conrad on sale so that was around 500$ each. Back in the day it was relatively easy to find them in Europe.

@buenonda yeah maybe something is wrong with their numbers, as you say.
With that profile, the Renegade is close to something like a Lotus 138, so that's a big change.

Dan / 4FRNT, can you confirm that all the numbers on the website are correct ?

[meter-man]

Stuntmanbo - Jlev answered this on the other thread - check it... https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...21#post5410421

[stuntmanbo]

Nice move. 200$ is more reasonable.