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  1. #26
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    2019 4frnt Renegade Changes?

    I love my Rens and 186 and 193 EHPs. The 193 EHP was less of a pure powder ski than I thought it would be but it rips variable at speed and even firmer crud far better than my turnt 186s ever did.

    I am stoked to A/B my Rens against newly acquired Praxis PBs

    Of all the skis they could have made a little shorter, a 191 Dev in the same layup otherwise would be pretty sick. The 194 is a claymore. But I get it- thereís a reason barely anyone makes any skis longer than 189 anymore.
    Last edited by Self Jupiter; 08-04-2018 at 09:07 PM.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    91
    If theyíve moved Renegade production out of the U.S. Iím going to go elsewhere... i have 186ís for Touring and wanted a longer length for resort days but it seems like theyíre trying to go more mass market.

    I skipped the custom ON3P discount waiting to see the new Ren and now Iím regretting it slightly.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Both the Raven and Renegade were fantastic and unique skis. The Hoji always felt like it was a non engineered bastardized Ďall mountainí renegade. Now they have made both the raven and renegade more like the hoji and less what made them both unique and highly capable skis.

    I still feel like the Raven is legit. The V2 version was actually better I think. I only own V1, but tested V2, and losing the variable radius was a good idea. The V1 ravens are good all-around and in bad conditions, but in powder and wind board they don't ski like the others in the line. You have to have a real light touch on the tips or they overturn.

    I feel like the hoji is supposed to ski easy. It's the mellow ski in the line. The big RC makes them ski powder really well for they're waste, and they're super easy to turn. It's just my personal view that the 112mm waist with should be your charger ski, so too much RC fucks that up. If EH is on the Renies when he's charging and and Hojis when he want's a break, I could see how that combo would work for him. I just want the opposite for my quiv. The Hoji was the mass market ski though, and will probably continue to be.

    Also interested to see how construction at a new factory would affect how they ski.

    Pat's got a thread about making the Praxis Bro, I think the Praxis Kusala would be killer, and no one would argue about how to make it, cuz it's perfect.

  4. #29
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    Just a little image comparison to show how much ReflectTech is BS when it comes to manufacturing. Maybe Elan is getting the 30m radius right, which could be the hoji's problem. Ren still looks good.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #30
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    Mar 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRainey View Post
    I think the Praxis Kusala would be killer.
    Me too. I'd buy it

  6. #31
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    ^thats what I want too

  7. #32
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    Jul 2006
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    The issue I have with Reflecttech or whatever is it only works for very long radius skis. Whatever the renegade used to have (35m?) seemed to work pretty well. When you shorten the turn radius (like in the HOji, and new Ren), you get more rocker, which is the wrong answer. You would want less rocker in a shorter-radius, more all mountain ski.

    The V1-V2 Raven was great because it still had enough of a flat spot to get good grip when touring, and not be totally terrible when skiing firm snow and ice. I thought it was the best all round winter touring ski out there. Now, I’m not so sure.

    For those wondering the new factory is in canada, same one which makes J skis, and used to make Armada way back when.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    26
    I know I suck at skiing and both versions of the 196s are too much for me but the 17/18s are just so very nimble. Only in slow speed trees are they too much. In the open both versions will go faster than my skill can keep up with.

    Was kind of hoping for 193 Inthayne and 191 Devastator this year. Saying that, somewhere in the main renegade thread Iím pretty sure I specifically said ďI want a 191 renegadeĒ. So Iím probably gonna have to get a pair...

    So anyone want a cheap 191 raven v2 or do I redrill a third time?


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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    The issue I have with Reflecttech or whatever is it only works for very long radius skis. Whatever the renegade used to have (35m?) seemed to work pretty well. When you shorten the turn radius (like in the HOji, and new Ren), you get more rocker, which is the wrong answer. You would want less rocker in a shorter-radius, more all mountain ski.

    The V1-V2 Raven was great because it still had enough of a flat spot to get good grip when touring, and not be totally terrible when skiing firm snow and ice. I thought it was the best all round winter touring ski out there. Now, I’m not so sure.

    For those wondering the new factory is in canada, same one which makes J skis, and used to make Armada way back when.

    100% Agree on Reflecttech. I just posted the image comparison to show that the Renegade still appears to have much less RC than the Hoji, even though the specs are now the same. Which I think is great, and I bet it will still ski powerfully.

    For the the Ravens, are we on V3? I guess I didn't see anything that mentioned a change. Other than the speculation on manufacturing.

    I will say, I've toured a lot on hojis and haven't had a big issue with bite, with 100% mohair skins.

  10. #35
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    Sterbenz resigned from 4frnt, so I think we can assume the Whiteroom skis moving to Canadian production is correct.

  11. #36
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    May 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRainey View Post
    Pat's got a thread about making the Praxis Bro, I think the Praxis Kusala would be killer, and no one would argue about how to make it, cuz it's perfect.
    Thanks, Bruthas!!!

    Once we get the 191 Fat on the snow, I'm sure Keith, like Jlev has w/4FRNT, wouldn't mind expanding his catalog with a few more Bro faves.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Thanks, Bruthas!!!

    Once we get the 191 Fat on the snow, I'm sure Keith, like Jlev has w/4FRNT, wouldn't mind expanding his catalog with a few more Bro faves.
    Who says the world is going to shit!? Seems like a bright future.

  13. #38
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    Oct 2014
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    781
    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Both the Raven and Renegade were fantastic and unique skis. The Hoji always felt like it was a non engineered bastardized Ďall mountainí renegade. Now they have made both the raven and renegade more like the hoji and less what made them both unique and highly capable skis.
    Wait a second. They changed the Raven this year? I thought they changed only the graphics
    Buy used mount your own skis build a quiver

  14. #39
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    Looks like they only changed the graphic. Early copy had some stuff implying more rocker.

    I’m heavily leaning towards getting a pair. Hoping the graphic looks better in person, having seen the new Ren (which looks awesome) I’m hoping so.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self Jupiter View Post
    Of all the skis they could have made a little shorter, a 191 Dev in the same layup otherwise would be pretty sick. The 194 is a claymore. But I get it- thereís a reason barely anyone makes any skis longer than 189 anymore.
    Idk man, when I saw you ski, you were laying trenches on those 194z, through some difficult spring slush too. They may be tiring, but you were hauliní the mail. I feel like those are the only skis that could touch the 191 Head Monsters in terms of stability at 60mph, weight and dampness.



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  16. #41
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    Mar 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Thanks, Bruthas!!!

    Once we get the 191 Fat on the snow, I'm sure Keith, like Jlev has w/4FRNT, wouldn't mind expanding his catalog with a few more Bro faves.
    If this really happens, count me the fuck in!
    Almost pulled the trigger many times on that pair Lindahl ended up with and have been pretty bummed about not pulling.
    Youre fucking welcome Lindahl!!

  17. #42
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    2019 4frnt Renegade Changes?

    Splatís skis have me intrigued!


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  18. #43
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    Oct 2017
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    91
    I'm wondering how much the lighter construction in the Devastator will drop that stability... I think they will be a bit more playful but how much the top end stability will drop worries me a little. In principle I like the idea of a heavy 191 than a light 194... It could end up being great but we'll see.

  19. #44
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    It should affect stability, but hopefully Jlev did it in a way that it isnt night and day difference. I still need to get on the OG 194


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  20. #45
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    If is the same drop in weight that happened to he Hojis via Elan constructions, then it's not so bad.

    I've got heavy hojis and light hojis. The light ones still rip, I might like them better. I'm a light person though.

  21. #46
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    2019 4frnt Renegade Changes?

    I want that last year of the heavy core plus vibeveil 19x Hoji so bad

    2015 or 2016 maybe, the red ones

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  22. #47
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    Mar 2017
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    They added the all the specs and weight on the website.
    The Ren now has higher tips and tails than the Hoji ... :-/

  23. #48
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    Dev lost a lot of weight 194 is now 2275g..

    Also why do the inthane and hoji weigh the same?
    Last edited by mr_pretzel; 08-08-2018 at 12:15 PM.

  24. #49
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    I think it makes sense that a fatter ski has a higher tip. As you increase width you decrease the chance that the ski's riding down in the snow, so a higher tip is further increasing the chance that ski will be on the surface. But it's only a 4mm difference, so it could just be manufacturing differences between "whiteroom" and elan. Raven is higher too.

    For the hoji width, the newer, low-tipped hoji is better because at 112 under foot, you're really split between in the snow and on the snow. So you need a slicier tip, compared to the old hojis it's better. EHPs were THE best at surfing while submerged. Torpedos!

    The Kusala I have has a higher tip and is quite soft in the very tips. I never noticed increased friction over the OG renegade.

    It seems like the weight differences are almost entirely due to the manufacturer. Whiteroom seems lighter across the board, Elan made seems a bit heavier.

    Hojis 187: 1950
    Rens 184: 2000g
    -Interesting

    Ravens 184: 1825
    -Seems heavier than last years

    I do think it will be interesting to see how the Whiteroom skis come out (weight, rocker profile) if they are made in Quebec.

  25. #50
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    Sep 2010
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    The 177 raven is the shape/weight/length Iíve been waiting years for (without paying thru the nose for the volkl bmt), so definitely hoping itís not some fucked up new construction

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