School me on WTR boots/bindings

**skizix** · 03-23-2018, 11:42 AM

I haven't owned a pair of alpine boots in around 20 years (been tele-in' exclusively). Thinking about dabbling in full bondage again.

Back in my alpine days, boots were boots and bindings were bindings. Now I'm seeing this WTR thing, which looks cool. Few questions on that:

- A WTR boot (e.g. Lange XT110 Freetour, if that's any good) will work with 2-pin, tech AT bindings (Dynafit, etc.), right? And it will work with WTR alpine bindings (thinking Look Pivot 14 WTR), right?

- Is there any disadvantage to using a WTR boot full-time, for in-area alpine, vs a dedicated alpine boot?

- Any disadvantage to using a WTR boot for AT, vs a dedicated AT boot?

- Is there any reason at all not to go with WTR boots and bindings, vs regular alpine (save $$$, having a dual-purpose boot, obviously)

- Finally: my last alpine boots were Lange Tii. Anybody have a feel for what kind of stiffness rating those would get (w/ today's stiffness ratings, which were not a thing back then)?

**reckless toboggan** · 03-23-2018, 11:55 AM

None of this has ever been discussed before...ever.

**Eluder** · 03-23-2018, 12:23 PM

WTR is dead. Gripwalk is the new norm that is going to be accepted by all brands. Look/Lange will all be gripwalk or din next year. You should be able to get soles for for the free tour, if not they currently come with din soles.

**cravenmorhead** · 03-23-2018, 01:09 PM

- A WTR boot (e.g. Lange XT110 Freetour, if that's any good) will work with 2-pin, tech AT bindings (Dynafit, etc.), right? And it will work with WTR alpine bindings (thinking Look Pivot 14 WTR), right?

Yes.

- Is there any disadvantage to using a WTR boot full-time, for in-area alpine, vs a dedicated alpine boot?

No.

- Any disadvantage to using a WTR boot for AT, vs a dedicated AT boot?

Eh. They tend to be heavier and with a little less rocker in the sole, slightly tougher to walk in, but not much. The differences boot-to-boot are going to be more significant than WTR vs. AT-only.

- Is there any reason at all not to go with WTR boots and bindings, vs regular alpine (save $$$, having a dual-purpose boot, obviously)

Not if you like the boots.

**skizix** · 03-23-2018, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Eluder

WTR is dead. Gripwalk is the new norm that is going to be accepted by all brands. Look/Lange will all be gripwalk or din next year. You should be able to get soles for for the free tour, if not they currently come with din soles.

Oops. Search came up first w/ a tgr thread entitled "School me on WTR bingings...", LOL.

So presumably, grip-walk is somehow better than WTR...? And it would appear to be very new (not many bindings or boots out there yet).

So in the fall (sooner?) I'll be able to pick up grip-walk compatible llook pivots? And whatever grip-walk boots, with tech pin toes - which will work equally well as alpine or AT boots? And I assume those boots would work with Salomon Shift bindings as well, or not?

**galibier_numero_un** · 03-23-2018, 02:26 PM

I believe Grip Walk is designed to be compatible with alpine (ISO 5355) bindings. I'm not sure how they accomplish this - perhaps with a recessed AFD area?

I'm curious as to whether Look's new version of the "Dual" P-14's will accommodate WTR next year, since I don't plan on wearing out my first year XT 130 Freetours. Last year's Freetours were WTR only (no ISO 5355 sole blocks like this year's model).

Note that with Salomon's MNC (Warden) and the STH 2, the toe piece height is adjusted via a screw, so you can have an infinite range of heights between the extremes. With the Look Dual WTR P-14, it's two click-stops with nothing in between: either Alpine, or WTR.

... Thom

**eskido** · 03-23-2018, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

I believe Grip Walk is designed to be compatible with alpine (ISO 5355) bindings. I'm not sure how they accomplish this - perhaps with a recessed AFD area?

I'm curious as to whether Look's new version of the "Dual" P-14's will accommodate WTR next year, since I don't plan on wearing out my first year XT 130 Freetours. Last year's Freetours were WTR only (no ISO 5355 sole blocks like this year's model).

Note that with Salomon's MNC (Warden) and the STH 2, the toe piece height is adjusted via a screw, so you can have an infinite range of heights between the extremes. With the Look Dual WTR P-14, it's two click-stops with nothing in between: either Alpine, or WTR.

... Thom

So just to be clear, if I buy a pair of last years (17/18) XT 130 Freetours I can NOT use them in a regular alpine binder, right?

**galibier_numero_un** · 03-23-2018, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by eskido

So just to be clear, if I buy a pair of last years (17/18) XT 130 Freetours I can NOT use them in a regular alpine binder, right?

It's last year's (16/17) that are WTR only sole blocks.

This year's (17/18) come with Alpine sole blocks. I believe WTR blocks are mounted and the alpine blocks are in a baggie. Someone posted this on the main XT-130 Freetour thread in the past 2-3 months.

Last year's boots (16/17) will not accept this year's (17/18) alpine sole blocks.

Start around post 290 in this thread: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...reetour/page12

Further down, you'll see my embarrassing attempt to fashion some alpine blocks for my 16/17 boots

... Thom

**eskido** · 03-24-2018, 12:47 AM

Your the man Thom, thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**gregL** · 03-24-2018, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by skizix

So presumably, grip-walk is somehow better than WTR...? And it would appear to be very new (not many bindings or boots out there yet).

So in the fall (sooner?) I'll be able to pick up grip-walk compatible llook pivots? And whatever grip-walk boots, with tech pin toes - which will work equally well as alpine or AT boots? And I assume those boots would work with Salomon Shift bindings as well, or not?

For better or worse, GripWalk will be the standard for crossover boots going forward. While not exactly dead, WTR will be phased out over the next year, with all the new 2019 boots in this category going GripWalk (Head KORE 1G, Fischer Ranger Free, Full Tilt Ascendant, etc.) Dalbello Lupo AX 120 had GripWalk this year. Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD will continue with WTR soles for one more season, new Tecnica Zero G Tour Pro will have non-replaceable ISO 9523 (touring) soles.

As noted, first year Lange XT Freetours had WTR soles. The sole design changed for 2017-18 and the boots shipped with WTR but had/have an ISO 5355 alpine sole in the box. I assume they will ship with GripWalk for next year, but I haven't seen one yet.

Look Pivots that are labelled WTR/Dual (12 and 14) are compatible with GripWalk now (Look revised their compatibility list this fall). Every adult boot with ISO 5355, GripWalk, WTR or ISO 9523 is supposed to work with the Shift, though I suspect some older thick ISO 9523 touring soles may not quite fit.

The AFD pad on GripWalk soles is indeed recessed, and set at a flatter angle. They will work in some but not all alpine bindings.

No boot works equally well as an alpine and touring tool, there are always compromises.

**gregL** · 03-24-2018, 01:26 PM

I should rephrase that last statement. There are boots that work equally well as lift-served and touring boots, i.e. "pretty good/pretty good" or "mediocre/mediocre" but so far I've not found one the is "really good/really good." It is up to you to decide what compromises you can live with when you're trying to do it all with just one boot. IMO the Hawx Ultra XTD is getting pretty close, but I still won't use it much for the spring and summer touring season. The Tecnica Zero G Tour Pro might be it, but I don't know yet.

**XavierD** · 03-24-2018, 08:35 PM

Lange XT Free boots will ship with 5355 soles, and consumers can purchase GripWalk soles if they like. I doubt many will since all GW bindings are generally compatible with 5355 with zero to no adjustments.

Almost all alpine bindings that don’t say Atomic/Salomon/Armada on them next year will be grip walk compatible. Some will be WTR compatible.

**Sashko** · 03-26-2018, 01:54 AM

Guys, is tyrolia attack GW binding compatible with salomon mtn lab and atomic hawx ultra?

**gregL** · 03-26-2018, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Sashka

Guys, is tyrolia attack GW binding compatible with salomon mtn lab and atomic hawx ultra?

Attack 13 GW is compatible with ISO 5355 alpine and GripWalk soles - MTN Lab is ISO 9523 touring (not compatible). Regular Hawx Ultra with alpine sole is fine, Hawx Ultra XTD with WTR sole is not.

**jono** · 07-27-2018, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by gregL

As noted, first year Lange XT Freetours had WTR soles. The sole design changed for 2017-18 and the boots shipped with WTR but had/have an ISO 5355 alpine sole in the box. I assume they will ship with GripWalk for next year, but I haven't seen one yet.

I'm trying to figure out if this is more complicated or if I just bought mislabeled product. I got a pair of XT Freetour 110's that evo said were 2018 models (though the box showed a 5/2016 build date). They had no alpine soles included and are missing the holes they would need to allow mounting the alpine soles. I know people who have bought 2018 110's and got alpine soles with them, so I assume this is just mislabeled? Their website shows white soles and these came with black, so it does feel like something is off.

They offered to sell me the 130's for just under 5 bills and I'm leaning that way for my mostly Lange-shaped feet, but open to suggestions now.

**SLCMunchie** · 11-28-2018, 01:30 PM

GAH!!! So frustrated with the ski industry right now....

Had a pair of Scarpa Freedoms for 3 plus years and they were probably the wrong boot shape for me. Under the advise of a boot fitter, he suggested a 25.5 Solomon QST pro 130 then went out of business. i found a pair of them used last year but never fitted them to my new insoles. they were so tight with the insoles i had to ski them without. Went to a boot fitter last week and was talked into the new Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 130. to be honest, they feel amazing on the dry ground, and haven't' skied them yet. based on reviews i'm exited to ski them.

went to adjust bindings last night to fit these, and realized that my thought that WTR would fit any alpine binding was incorrect.... BOOO ski industry! At least that's how I feel. however, i'm stoked with the thought of a one quiver boot that doesn't require changing soles so i guess i just need to adjust my thinking. It is great that they are making so many swift advances in technology, but damn is it getting confusing for the customer, and furthermore for shops to adequately inform buyers of what they need to do. i would have expected being asked the question when i bought the boots- what bindings are on your other skis...

Anybody else with this predicament? Anyone to offer up some suggestions? here are my skis now:
187 or something hojis. bought used previously mounted once. i put some g# onyx on them and when those broke put some dynafit speed turns on them. i'll probably keep these as is because they are my favorite skis and the only ones i feel i can safely ski.

180 something bizzard bodacious with griffons or something. inherited them from my dad but they are a great ski for teaching my 5 year old and just cruizing around the mountain for lazy laps. i'd like to keep these going. do the new WTR markers have the same hole patterns? I think i remounted them when i inherited them so they've already got two sets of holes in them.

187 ish gotamas about 5 years old now. they've got old jesters on em. these are realistically probably beat now, but they were my go to hard resort charging ski.

anyone with some cheapish suggestions? Would these old bindings be a reasonable sale on the site here? Should i just take everything to second tracks and get one pair of new skis with appropriate bindings to use for the year? who would have thought that buying a great new pair of boots would set in motion me changing out my entire quiver of skis?

**S.B.** · 11-28-2018, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by SLCMunchie

GAH!!! So frustrated with the ski industry right now....

Had a pair of Scarpa Freedoms for 3 plus years and they were probably the wrong boot shape for me. Under the advise of a boot fitter, he suggested a 25.5 Solomon QST pro 130 then went out of business. i found a pair of them used last year but never fitted them to my new insoles. they were so tight with the insoles i had to ski them without. Went to a boot fitter last week and was talked into the new Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 130. to be honest, they feel amazing on the dry ground, and haven't' skied them yet. based on reviews i'm exited to ski them.

went to adjust bindings last night to fit these, and realized that my thought that WTR would fit any alpine binding was incorrect.... BOOO ski industry! At least that's how I feel. however, i'm stoked with the thought of a one quiver boot that doesn't require changing soles so i guess i just need to adjust my thinking. It is great that they are making so many swift advances in technology, but damn is it getting confusing for the customer, and furthermore for shops to adequately inform buyers of what they need to do. i would have expected being asked the question when i bought the boots- what bindings are on your other skis...

Anybody else with this predicament? Anyone to offer up some suggestions? here are my skis now:
187 or something hojis. bought used previously mounted once. i put some g# onyx on them and when those broke put some dynafit speed turns on them. i'll probably keep these as is because they are my favorite skis and the only ones i feel i can safely ski.

180 something bizzard bodacious with griffons or something. inherited them from my dad but they are a great ski for teaching my 5 year old and just cruizing around the mountain for lazy laps. i'd like to keep these going. do the new WTR markers have the same hole patterns? I think i remounted them when i inherited them so they've already got two sets of holes in them.

187 ish gotamas about 5 years old now. they've got old jesters on em. these are realistically probably beat now, but they were my go to hard resort charging ski.

anyone with some cheapish suggestions? Would these old bindings be a reasonable sale on the site here? Should i just take everything to second tracks and get one pair of new skis with appropriate bindings to use for the year? who would have thought that buying a great new pair of boots would set in motion me changing out my entire quiver of skis?

I have been in the exact same situation, albeit I knew what I was getting in to. Unfortunately, the new marker ID bindings are alpine and gripwalk only, and wtr soles don't work in them. What really sucks about the industry right now is how gripwalk and wtr are at odds, and wtr is already pretty much obsolete. So you and I have these new boots that have soles that are going to be gone in a few years.

Honestly, I would reccomend that you get one nice pair of skis on discount or gear swap and mount them with STH2s, and keep your hojis.

I had a big quiver when I got hawx xtds, but I sold pretty much everything (10+) pairs and I have been rebuilding with skis with STH2s.

Sent from my SM-G960U using TGR Forums mobile app

**gregL** · 11-28-2018, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Teenaged

Unfortunately, the new marker ID bindings are alpine and gripwalk only, and wtr soles don't work in them.

Marker SoleID bindings are supposed to be compatible with ISO 9523 (touring), ISO 5355 (alpine), GripWalk and WTR soles. Unfortunately, they didn't test every WTR sole on the market and the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD is an exception.

**gregL** · 11-28-2018, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by SLCMunchie

. . . anyone with some cheapish suggestions?

Personally, I would probably buy some Griffon ID's (holes are the same as old Griffon/Jester), and grind the toes on the Hawx Ultra XTD's like Eluder did (see post #455 here: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ka-HawX/page19).

Edit to add: No shop will want to touch this, so you'll likely have to do the work yourself - remount you own fucking toepieces and find a belt sander with a bevel guide for the soles.

**adrenalated** · 01-13-2019, 10:43 PM

Bump.

I want to put together a less-aggro inbounds setup, to be skied with my Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD. They're WTR soles but apparently, per the above, do not work with every "WTR" binding?

What is the best WTR binding for someone that usually skis Pivot 18s (but set at the bottom of the DIN range) and will work with these boots? STH2 16?

**gregL** · 01-13-2019, 10:58 PM

Last year's Look Dual WTR Pivot 14?

**adrenalated** · 01-13-2019, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by gregL

Last year's Look Dual WTR Pivot 14?

I know way too many people that have blown up the 14 din look toepiece to have any interest in those.

**Dee Hubbs** · 01-14-2019, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

Bump.
I want to put together a less-aggro inbounds setup, to be skied with my Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD. They're WTR soles but apparently, per the above, do not work with every "WTR" binding?
What is the best WTR binding for someone that usually skis Pivot 18s (but set at the bottom of the DIN range) and will work with these boots? STH2 16?

Will these be skied on exclusively with the WTR boot? If so find some P18 WTR AFDs and go with a trusty P18.
Thats what I have right now. I'm stuck switching between a Lange WTR XT Free and Lange RS DIN boot.
I have some WTR P18s on some skis and regular P18s on other.
I plan on getting some new XT Frees with the DIN sole to get rid of this stupid cross match binding game I'm playing.

**Dee Hubbs** · 01-14-2019, 02:30 AM

See P18 compatibility here.

**gregL** · 01-14-2019, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

I plan on getting some new XT Frees with the DIN sole to get rid of this stupid cross match binding game I'm playing.

I did exactly that this year, Cochise or Lupo with alpine sole would also work.

Last year when I tried skiing the Hawx Ultra XTD all the time I was in either STH2 or Wardens.