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  1. #26
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    Spoke bracing angle isn't going to make much of a difference in wheel strength these days. Most wheels I've seen die were the result of an exploding rim. Spoke angle doesn't matter when you smash a rock.

    That said, a stiffer wheel is nice.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    What do you expect from Highway Star?
    Wait, not rog? And are they really different people? Hard to tell.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    8 speed: 11, 13, 16, 20, 24, 30, 36, 42

    That's totally fine spacing.
    Is it though? have you ridden a cassette with 20-25% jumps across the board? This would be easy to test- just take a couple of cogs out of your cassette, stick them on the back, and set the limit screw so it stays on the first 7-8 or whatever. I don't think that 16-20t shift is going to go very well.
    Last edited by jamal; 03-23-2018 at 06:02 PM.

  4. #29
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    I want a CVT with the equivalent of 6-52 a rear end
    You are what you eat.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    There's no such thing as bad snow, just shitty skiers.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    I personally always sit and grind when climbing, so I like a tight grouping of the low gears.
    Yep. I could be fine with nothing smaller than a 16 or 17t cog and tighter ratios on the low end. ...34-38-42-46.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaver View Post
    I want a CVT with the equivalent of 6-52 a rear end
    I definitely have a hard-on for the Zerode Taniwha. Would love one of these for my commuter, too: https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/continuumonyx

    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Yep. I could be fine with nothing smaller than a 16 or 17t cog and tighter ratios on the low end. ...34-38-42-46.
    Ewwww....

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    What do you expect from Highway Star?
    Seriously? Is it that guy?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gramboh View Post
    Seriously? Is it that guy?
    Yep.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Yep. I could be fine with nothing smaller than a 16 or 17t cog and tighter ratios on the low end. ...34-38-42-46.
    Uhh, get a smaller chainring? 16-46 is the equivalent range of an 11-32 cassette. And that has plenty close spacing.

    For example:

    http://ritzelrechner.de/?GR=DERS&KB=...28,32&UF2=2240

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I definitely have a hard-on for the Zerode Taniwha. Would love one of these for my commuter, too: https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/continuumonyx
    The Zerode is a sweet machine, have you gotten on it? They were in Moab last fall. I'm playing with gearboxes a bunch and aside from the weight I think they're very close--just needs the belt drive.

    Anything over 600% is pretty nice--used to be only serious geeks worried about gear calculations back when we were all on 3x9's with that range. More is a little better, but I can't see needing a CVT (constantly varying is a little much--even a 9% step seems small offroad) or much more range unless it's somehow free. OTOH, the ratio between walking speed and 50 mph is a lot more than 600%, so maybe it's just a cost/benefit thing up to about there.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    I'm playing with gearboxes a bunch and aside from the weight I think they're very close--just needs the belt drive.
    Not being able to shift under load kinda sucks a lot.

    Until that issue is figured out, along with the weight problem, I don't see them being useful on any bike that isn't fairly downhill biased.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  12. #37
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    The pro gear box crowd tends to glaze over that (significant) drawback.
    "Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Not being able to shift under load kinda sucks a lot.

    Until that issue is figured out, along with the weight problem, I don't see them being useful on any bike that isn't fairly downhill biased.
    I'm not sure what to say about that. I agree, but I also find that more time spent on these has changed my shift technique to where I'm ok with the overall change. They shift very fast, instantly, in effect, as soon as the load is light enough. Which means even the briefest pause in pedal torque will let you shift multiple gears without waiting for the cranks to come around. A slightly uneven pedal stroke or dropping torque just slightly at the bottom will do it. Except in some cases when a very hard/premature pull on the shifter seems to hang things up and require a much lighter load or backing off the shifter and starting again. Being able to shift without pedaling is nice, too, and I probably do that more than I realize.

    It all goes better with practice, but it could certainly be improved. I'm not sure how to measure that--I feel like it would be helpful to be able to compare that between, say, Pinion and Rohloff, but what matters? Maximum power input allowed for a shift? I don't think I want the weight necessary to have them shift when I'm standing hard on a pedal, but a little more power during shifts would be nice.

  14. #39
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    New trend - Wide range 1x 8, 9, or 10 speed?

    Doesn't the rohloff have have a lot of fiction/drag?

    It's an interesting idea, but for something that's heavier, more expensive robs you of watts, and requires a different shifting technique... it's hard to appreciate the benefits.

    And even if all those issue were addressed, to be at least on par with the current standard, I hate grip shift.
    "Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto

  15. #40
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    The drag question is a little murky. At very low power a very clean derailleur gets a small advantage and as power goes up or the chain gets dirtier the advantage switches to Rohloff. I talked with a disinterested observer (power meter manufacturer) last year who said they have measured drivetrain efficiency as low as 70% on derailleur bikes and as high as 90-something (can't remember the top end now). I don't think I've seen anything below 90% for the Rohloff, even in its worst gear. (There is a rather odd study floating around out there that implied slightly less, but if you read it you find that their test apparatus built in some drag since they only wanted to do a comparison.) So a belt that stays clean probably covers the gap for a lot of us--Rog and his individually-placed oil droplets excluded, of course.

    I think the Pinion is a little less efficient than the Rohloff, but I'm finding it acceptable for real world riding. Not sure I'd try to race up a hill on it, but then again I have it mounted in a 160 mm bike anyway.

  16. #41
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    To your point about grip shift, I don't disagree there, either, but it's another case where apples to apples comparisons are hard to manage. There are pros and cons and the more you get used to it the better you like it (or the less it bothers you, anyway). Grabbing 5 or 9 gears at a time is nice. Without pedaling. But you're used to not having that ability so you plan around it. How much you care is very personaland changes a lot over a few rides. But yeah, I'd rather have triggers. Mostly because it's weird switching back and forth.

  17. #42
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    Pinion trigger shifter is coming.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  18. #43
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    Wait. It's Highway Damian? Hahahaha.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post



    Ewwww....
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by jamal View Post
    Uhh, get a smaller chainring? 16-46 is the equivalent range of an 11-32 cassette. And that has plenty close spacing.
    Yeah I'll probably try a 28t this year. The 32 on my most frequently used bike is just a hair tall for some of the stuff I do and I'd like to be able to spend more time in 3 and 4 rather than 2.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Thanks



    Yeah I'll probably try a 28t this year. The 32 on my most frequently used bike is just a hair tall for some of the stuff I do and I'd like to be able to spend more time in 3 and 4 rather than 2.
    28t. Gasp! Your suspension kinematics will not approve.
    "Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmcrawfo View Post
    28t. Gasp! Your suspension kinematics will not approve.
    Hardtails forever

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmcrawfo View Post
    Doesn't the rohloff have have a lot of fiction/drag?
    Yes, relative to well-maintained derailleur transmission. Drag is quite a bit more in some gears than others. 11th gear is direct drive/low drag. Some of the friction due to tight seals lessens as the hub ages and loosens up, but drag resulting from spinning planetary gearing will always be there (except in 11th gear).

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    The Zerode is a sweet machine, have you gotten on it?
    No, just e-lust. It's way more than I'll spend on a bike in the near future. Not unreasonably priced compared to an equivalent carbon frame+XX1 Eagle drivetrain, though. The weight doesn't seem like a big deal. It's all unsprung and low, and built out it's still like 32 lbs which is fine for a 160 enduro bike.

    The Pinion isn't perfect, but the people who actually ride them don't seem too bothered by the drag and shift quirks. It's not like Eagle doesn't have issues of its own.

  24. #49
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    Nov 2005
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    Yeah, some of us are early adopters who like koolaid, but I think what makes the Pinion livable despite the issues is that with a little practice better biomechanics of having the right gear are more important than mechanical efficiency alone.

    Apologies if I've mentioned this before, but about a year ago I had occasion to chase a guy on Eagle up an uneven climb using the Pinion 12-speed. I kept a little distance because we'd come over a little rise and I'd shift up from 1st to 2nd then 3rd and find myself running up his back tire as we started the next pitch. He wasn't shifting out of 1st because the "flat" was too short to be worth waiting half a revolution or so for a shift. So he was just backing off a little for those couple strokes. I had plenty of time to back off for the 1/8th of a turn needed to get back to first. I think he was doing it right given a derailleur in 32x50 on that particular terrain. Apples to apples comparisons are hard to come by, though.

  25. #50
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    Sep 2017
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    725
    Wow, I want less gears, less cost and less complexity. Other people want gear boxes. Who's crazy?

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