TRace Duckbill Failure - Anyone encounter/have a fix suggestion

**Doremite** · 03-21-2018, 02:55 PM

My buddy bought brand new TRaces from STP in late 2014. He lives in NYC so skis pretty irregularly, also alpines so only put about 6 resort days on the boot. Scarpa seems uninterested in dealing with it likely given the age of the boot (from manufacture date) despite its very light on snow use. Anyone encounter this failure and have any suggestions on repair other than epoxy the hell out of it and hope for the best?

It still feels pretty solid to the touch but personally would be concerned to ski it. I assume failure inevitable and when that day comes, the duckbill will just rip out of the toe block resulting in a violent collision if at an inopportune time. Figured I'd throw up a plea for help here before telling him to eat the loss.

28.5 if there are any stragglers out there in reasonable shape.

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**adrenalated** · 03-21-2018, 03:07 PM

I have heard of but not experienced this.

I would recommend alpine or AT boots.

**Toddball** · 03-21-2018, 03:14 PM

Grind off, glue underfoot, buy NTN bindings?

Also I can't figure out how the duckbill would have flexed that way. Didn't keep tips up getting off the lift? Held the daffy for too long? Cable tension was, like, really really high?

**3PinGrin** · 03-21-2018, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Doremite

My buddy bought brand new TRaces from STP in late 2014. He lives in NYC so skis pretty irregularly, also alpines so only put about 6 resort days on the boot. Scarpa seems uninterested in dealing with it likely given the age of the boot (from manufacture date) despite its very light on snow use. Anyone encounter this failure and have any suggestions on repair other than epoxy the hell out of it and hope for the best?

It still feels pretty solid to the touch but personally would be concerned to ski it. I assume failure inevitable and when that day comes, the duckbill will just rip out of the toe block resulting in a violent collision if at an inopportune time. Figured I'd throw up a plea for help here before telling him to eat the loss.

28.5 if there are any stragglers out there in reasonable shape.

I'm curious what bindings he was using? I have never seen anything like that. I see a lot of T1 boots showing up locally on craigslist, not T races so much. 75mm can be had pretty cheap lightly used these days if you look around.

**Doremite** · 03-21-2018, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

I have heard of but not experienced this.

I would recommend alpine or AT boots.

Knew that was coming

Originally Posted by 3PinGrin

I'm curious what bindings he was using? I have never seen anything like that. I see a lot of T1 boots showing up locally on craigslist, not T races so much. 75mm can be had pretty cheap lightly used these days if you look around.

HHs set at 3 I believe. He is only like <200lbs so not a monster.

I have skied multiple versions of TRace for 100s of days at heavy tension settings (Bombers and AXLs w stiffy spring set ups) and never encountered this.

Wonder if somehow the binging was somehow (?) set up a weird tension point + a tip toe style had the boot flexing in the wrong spot. He had a cable break last season so possibly happened then and he just didn’t notice it. Tension not set high enough for his weight boot flex? No idea.

**3PinGrin** · 03-21-2018, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Doremite

Knew that was coming

HHs set at 3 I believe. He is only like <200lbs so not a monster.

I have skied multiple versions of TRace for 100s of days at heavy tension settings (Bombers and AXLs w stiffy spring set ups) and never encountered this.

Wonder if somehow the binging was somehow (?) set up a weird tension point + a tip toe style had the boot flexing in the wrong spot. He had a cable break last season so possibly happened then and he just didn’t notice it. Tension not set high enough for his weight boot flex? No idea.

Weird. I'm guessing just a bad batch of plastic. I hate STP and will never buy anything from them again. I think there are more defective items going through there than people realize (especially since the TJmaxx acquisition) then you get stuck when it comes to manufacturer support if an issue occurs.

**Doremite** · 03-21-2018, 04:30 PM

I thought scarpa would be more supportive. Guess I am naive.
He would be fine w T1s too. I only pushed him to the TRace due to price ($312 new all in) and his aggressive alpine style. Novice tele skier but I tend to push converts who are strong alpine skiers to stiffer set ups.

**3PinGrin** · 03-21-2018, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Doremite

I thought scarpa would be more supportive. Guess I am naive.
He would be fine w T1s too. I only pushed him to the TRace due to price ($312 new all in) and his aggressive alpine style. Novice tele skier but I tend to push converts who are strong alpine skiers to stiffer set ups.

If he is a resort skier only and coming from alpine, I would suggest a switch to the NTN Freeride, 22 Designs Outlaw, or maybe the new Bishop BMF-R if upgrading boots/bindings is an affordable option for him. Granted an expensive upgrade but these options offer release, step in, and brakes.

**bodywhomper** · 03-21-2018, 06:02 PM

did he try contacting STP?

also, look online for a pair that are lightly used.

**3PinGrin** · 03-21-2018, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by bodywhomper

did he try contacting STP?

You mean TJmaxx? Let me save him the effort, here is what their response would be BITE ME!! Well, they MAY give him some credit toward other purchases at best would be my guess, but regardless he should run and never do business with those rat bastards again.

**Todd Zander** · 03-21-2018, 06:13 PM

Seems like you would need a fuck ton of snow buildup under the balls of your feet for that to happen?

+ vibes. 75mm isn't cheap for people that ski 75mm

i have the same size and likely same batch (stp deal) and have not experienced that on axl's in the middle ( 2 on HH?) with about 20 days on them.

**Peruvian** · 03-21-2018, 06:16 PM

I too have heard of such issues in the candy cane T-race.

Bummer, but time for new (or used) pair of boots.

**3PinGrin** · 03-21-2018, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Todd Zander

75mm isn't cheap for people that ski 75mm

Did you mean NTN isn't cheap?

**Mr. Toad** · 03-21-2018, 06:54 PM

Or pinheads who still ski 75mm are dirtbag, hippies, with no money.

Yea, my candy canes are still going strong after 100++ days. And I bought them used.

**3PinGrin** · 03-21-2018, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Toad

Or pinheads who still ski 75mm are dirtbag, hippies, with no money.

Yea, my candy canes are still going strong after 100++ days. And I bought them used.

Ahh, maybe that was the point, haha.

**dschane** · 03-21-2018, 07:12 PM

I put my red T-Races through the wringer and while they developed some rocker over time, never cracked. Your buddy should definitely reach out to STP/TJMaxx or whichever corporate overlord is running that shop, even if he has to get through a few rounds of bite me.

**Doremite** · 03-21-2018, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by 3PinGrin

If he is a resort skier only and coming from alpine, I would suggest a switch to the NTN Freeride, 22 Designs Outlaw, or maybe the new Bishop BMF-R if upgrading boots/bindings is an affordable option for him. Granted an expensive upgrade but these options offer release, step in, and brakes.

Yeah, great stuff just not into dropping $$$$ given how often he skis let alone telemarks

Originally Posted by Peruvian

I too have heard of such issues in the candy cane T-race.

Bummer, but time for new (or used) pair of boots.

Used for him most likely. May have to talk him off the edge given his gear mishaps to date. May be the end of his tele experiment.

**3PinGrin** · 03-21-2018, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Doremite

Yeah, great stuff just not into dropping $$$$ given how often he skis let alone telemarks

So I hope your weren't like "Telemark is great, you should try it!" haha

**skizix** · 03-21-2018, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Todd Zander

75mm isn't cheap for people that ski 75mm

Are you saying 75mm-ers are simply slobs who can't afford ntn etc? If so, then fuck right the fuck off. Some of us prefer reliability (haven't had any sort of binding failure since the superloop days - the stats on ntn in this regard are not good).

In any case, I've been skiing duckybills for 20 years (Scarpa and Garmont, and not Scott, which = Garmont). Never seen anything like that. Gotta think it's a bad batch of plastic.

No fixing those. Pursue return to STP (never had a bad experience with them, but have only bought like long underwear and a couple of shoes) or Scarpa warranty.

**Doremite** · 03-21-2018, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by 3PinGrin

So I hope your weren't like "Telemark is great, you should try it!" haha

Pretty much

**MakersTeleMark** · 03-22-2018, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Doremite

Pretty much

I don't know what to tell you. I have seen it happen. I don't know why it happens, and I don't know what to do other than call out Scarpa on a freak batch.

That, and tell bro that it's a welcome gift from Norheim. Welcome to the club of broken shit.

**ski-wpk** · 03-22-2018, 12:58 AM

My 2014 era candy canes haven’t failed like that but they have had issues. Seems the plastic isn’t rigid enough or something, particularly in the toe. Mine still hold a binding, but the duckbill is basically crumbling over time. Probably 80 days on them. Also bought from STP, for like $120. Not a bad day rate.

**Flyoverland Captive** · 03-22-2018, 01:11 AM

That ain’t fixable; toss ‘em. And buy Crispis for fuck’s sake.

**efbride** · 03-22-2018, 04:42 AM

Long time user of t race. Red and candy cane with cc being the most comfortable and capable. Loved that boot. Bishops and others previous were weak points. Ntn for a while now and very satisfied. Just darn skiis well with added reliability. Easy to swap in quiver and alpines quite well so we can fit in with the at folk or the conditions suck.

**Todd Zander** · 03-22-2018, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by skizix

Are you saying 75mm-ers are simply slobs who can't afford ntn etc? If so, then fuck right the fuck off. Some of us prefer reliability (haven't had any sort of binding failure since the superloop days - the stats on ntn in this regard are not good).

um yea, thats exactly what im saying.

except i just prefer the reliability of 75mm, i dont consider myself a slob