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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit Man View Post
    The pow is deep and far from perfect.
    Blasphemy...
    It is mediocre however.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    This thread drives me nuts. I have five seasons on my Renegade, can't imagine something better or faster in the forests of Japan (90% fresh lines.) The way you guys talk about BG's kills me.
    They are pretty different. The way you love the Rens makes me thing you might not love the BGs. Plus, the Rens are better on firm, IMHO -- though ON3P supposedly addressed that in subsequent iterations.

    The Rens ski more like a rev/rev ski than the BGs in that you can surf/slash while leaning back slightly at super, super high speeds. Have only felt that kind of lateral movement on rev/rev skis like the L138. BG is a looser, more pivoty pintail, not really a rev/rev. My major complain with the Rens was their balance point when landing airs in firm snow. Blame the pilot, perhaps, but the BGs are better for me in that respect. Both have their place, and maybe I'll get some Rens again someday if I ever ski enough to justify 3 different pairs of dedicated inbounds pow skis.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  3. #103
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    I've got the billy goats in stock form right before the asym version. they crush most everything but I do not like firm groom on em like I like some other 115-120 waist skis. I guess that aspect may have been improved.

    I took em up cat skiing at Baldface in primo conditions and they had some other DPS spoon stuff to try out. I am good/prefer the BGs in primo conditions personally than stuff that tries real hard to be a powder ski or always stay on top of the snow.

    Now that I've said I really like em in deep light stuff, here's some old helmet cam stuff in some conditions they really excel at.

    Last edited by klauss; 03-23-2018 at 11:20 PM.

  4. #104
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    Nice edit, Klaus!

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  5. #105
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    BG's, why all the love?

    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    This thread drives me nuts. I have five seasons on my Renegade, can't imagine something better or faster in the forests of Japan (90% fresh lines.) The way you guys talk about BG's kills me.
    X2. The bugs have me thinking....

    I’ll make a lil Ren edit and post it here, been forever since I did an edit, would be fun. It’s gonna take me forever to make, haha.

    And what you’re saying AG is what I love so much about those skis... so fast so loose, but get on edge and they bite in. Same as EHPs.

    I only get the rocking horse fore-aft feeling in really variable stuff / crud, which it sounds like the BG is better at. Rens are very usable on groomers, they’ll even carve. I don’t do big airs really anymore, chronic back injury womp womp.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self Jupiter View Post
    X2. The bugs have me thinking....

    I’ll make a lil Ren edit and post it here, been forever since I did an edit, would be fun. It’s gonna take me forever to make, haha.

    And what you’re saying AG is what I love so much about those skis... so fast so loose, but get on edge and they bite in. Same as EHPs.

    I only get the rocking horse fore-aft feeling in really variable stuff / crud, which it sounds like the BG is better at. Rens are very usable on groomers, they’ll even carve. I don’t do big airs really anymore, chronic back injury womp womp.
    When I said better in firm, I didn't necessarily mean groomers. I really liked the way the Ren skied steep, firm offpiste stuff. I just worked for me. The pintail of the BG never felt as confident or comfortable for me, but I haven't skied the newer version. I'm sure the size played in here a bit, since my BGs are 191 and the Rens were the 186. But yeah, the BGs just kill choppy/tracked pow, which happens regularly when riding lifts in the PNW.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  7. #107
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    BG's, why all the love?

    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    This thread drives me nuts. I have five seasons on my Renegade, can't imagine something better or faster in the forests of Japan (90% fresh lines.) The way you guys talk about BG's kills me.
    I got 186 Rens last year and just bought 184 BGs.

    In the right snow, the Rens are magical. My best runs of the year, both last year and this, were in untracked snow under chair 2 at Alpental. I think I did about 20 turns in 1000’ vert.

    Unfortunately, most of the time I have to ski in chop. It’s even worse at Stevens Pass than Alpental. The choppier it is, the more I have to lean back to keep the Rens pointed down the fall line. If I’m anywhere near the fronts of my boots, the shovels catch and try to spin me around. That burns out my legs, and pisses me off. To add insult to injury, I think the Rens are phenomenally good soft mogul skis. Whatever is going on is specific to chop.

    BGs, for me, are totally intuitive for blasting through chop. When the shovels start to catch, that forces my shins into the front of the boots, and that pressure pushes the fronts of the skis back down the fall line.

    I’ve done back to back runs on steep chop, and I can ski three times farther on the BGs before I have to stop because my legs are burned out. It’s a night and day difference.
    U.P.: up

  8. #108
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    In all honesty, I cannot say I noticed any difference in fatigue from the Rens vs the BGs. I skied both as my primary skis, probably 30 days on each, during my last big season before grad school. Embarrassingly, that was five years ago.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    In all honesty, I cannot say I noticed any difference in fatigue from the Rens vs the BGs. I skied both as my primary skis, probably 30 days on each, during my last big season before grad school. Embarrassingly, that was five years ago.
    The long game as you've noted earlier. I've run through stretches that seemed too long (due to life/work commitments) where skiing was but a pipe dream. The way I've looked at it was that I was preserving my "ball joints" and other moving parts for more skiing later in life

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  10. #110
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    Billy Goats are my favorite skis (and I know very little about rens) but I kind of think that they’re overkill for japan. They’re especially awesome for heavy pow and skied out resort pow. Neither of which is obviously the norm in Japan. Also, most of the terrain in Hokkaido is kinda small for them.

    You wouldn’t have a bad time at all on goats in Japan but I’d prefer skiing something lighter there.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    I'm sure the size played in here a bit, since my BGs are 191 and the Rens were the 186.
    isn't that close to 6-8cm difference? ON3Ps measure true, and while i do not know about 4FRNTs i would think that big of a difference would manifest itself in a major way

    The only ski that i had that i absolutely hated were some 4FRNT CRJs, though that was through no fault of the skis - it was 100% me buying the wrong ski due to poor judgement and graphic considerations over any geo/use understanding

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorion View Post
    Billy Goats are my favorite skis (and I know very little about rens) but I kind of think that they’re overkill for japan. They’re especially awesome for heavy pow and skied out resort pow. Neither of which is obviously the norm in Japan. Also, most of the terrain in Hokkaido is kinda small for them.

    You wouldn’t have a bad time at all on goats in Japan but I’d prefer skiing something lighter there.
    I didn’t have a bad time on them. But posting one of my edits in the same thread as one of Klauss’ is sort of like watching a toddler pound on a piano with flat open hands after watching Billy Joel drop New York State of Mind. No one wants to see that shit.

    So just take my word for it. They were dope in Japan.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    . But posting one of my edits in the same thread as one of Klauss’ is sort of like watching a toddler pound on a piano with flat open hands after watching Billy Joel drop New York State of Mind. No one wants to see that shit.
    Hilarious.
    Every man dies. Not every man lives.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorion View Post
    Billy Goats are my favorite skis (and I know very little about rens) but I kind of think that they’re overkill for japan. They’re especially awesome for heavy pow and skied out resort pow. Neither of which is obviously the norm in Japan. Also, most of the terrain in Hokkaido is kinda small for them.

    You wouldn’t have a bad time at all on goats in Japan but I’d prefer skiing something lighter there.
    For Hakuba last year I had Steeple 102’s and 191 BG Tours. Most days the 102’s were adequate but there were some days that required the 191. Those were incredible days.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    But posting one of my edits in the same thread as one of Klauss’ is sort of like watching a toddler pound on a piano with flat open hands after watching Billy Joel drop New York State of Mind. No one wants to see that shit.
    That's pretty funny.

    It did make me remember this random anecdote: Billy Joel's mansion is pretty close to where I went to undergrad so someone at the engineering school convinced him to come give a talk on designing his yacht. Apparently, he said he'd do it for free under the condition that it was 100% about the engineering and he absolutely would not be asked to perform. All the students are read the riot act: when he comes, you better not him to perform. So he comes, gives his talk, and there's a swanky reception with food and drink afterwards. Tiny school so there's like 60 or 70 people there. At some point in the evening, he saunters up to the grand piano that's sitting in the corner. Whole room goes silent. You can sense the anticipation of every single person in the room hoping we're going to get a private concert. He plays one note with his index finger and walks away.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  16. #116
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    I’ve been skiing my 192 GPO’s, carbon enduros #4 as my daily drivers at Snowbird and pulling out the SG’s when there is 10-12 or more. No tip dive on either.

    Rode the lift yesterday w some guys from Tahoe on BG’s. They thought the GPO’s were a direct comparision ski.


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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    That's pretty funny.

    It did make me remember this random anecdote: Billy Joel's mansion is pretty close to where I went to undergrad so someone at the engineering school convinced him to come give a talk on designing his yacht. Apparently, he said he'd do it for free under the condition that it was 100% about the engineering and he absolutely would not be asked to perform. All the students are read the riot act: when he comes, you better not him to perform. So he comes, gives his talk, and there's a swanky reception with food and drink afterwards. Tiny school so there's like 60 or 70 people there. At some point in the evening, he saunters up to the grand piano that's sitting in the corner. Whole room goes silent. You can sense the anticipation of every single person in the room hoping we're going to get a private concert. He plays one note with his index finger and walks away.
    I feel like you missed a stellar opportunity to yell "play Freebird!"

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    I feel like you missed a stellar opportunity to yell "play Freebird!"
    Yeah, that would have been amazing.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  19. #119
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    Where do the Steeple 112 and 116 fit on the BG awesomeness scale?

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by detrusor View Post
    They thought the GPO’s were a direct comparision ski.
    They are, or at least that's what everyone says. General summary I've heard is that GPO's are a little better on the firm, BG's a little better in deep snow.

  21. #121
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    BG's, why all the love?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrueNorth View Post
    Where do the Steeple 112 and 116 fit on the BG awesomeness scale?
    I really like the Steeple 112. They are definitely softer/lighter feeling than BGs, but still could be used for resort. 50/50 resort/touring. Steeple 112s could ski firm smooth snow pretty well for RES too. I thought they actually “hooked up” on groomers, kind of like my Supergoats.

    The tour core layup with RES floats very well. I found Steeple 112s to plane up better than regular BGs, on top of drier, lighter snow. In heavier and wetter powder, BG’s reign supreme.

    I haven’t skied the Steeple 116s, but I think 112 is a great waist width for RES. Honestly, I’d love a Steeple 112 built up with a heavier layup.


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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    They are, or at least that's what everyone says. General summary I've heard is that GPO's are a little better on the firm, BG's a little better in deep snow.
    This is mostly true. I would say GPO's are MUCH better in firmer conditions and BG's are MUCH better in soft conditions, especially deeper snow. They look similar on paper, but ski very differently. I love BG's since I get to ski conditions that favor their strengths. If it were the converse, I would probably prefer the GPO's. GPO's would make a better touring option for most people, IMO.
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  23. #123
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    ^^Agreed, from the limited time I spent on chicken's 194 enduro+carbon GPOs.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  24. #124
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    FWIW I didn't get along with my GPOs, and absolutely love my BGs. To Bandit Man's point, they ski very differently.

    I also own Rens, and while I enjoyed them in untracked and cut up snow I thought they were a handful on firm snow (ie most CO resorts after ~1PM on a pow day). I've never felt that way with the BGs - I'll happily ski those bell to bell. Rens are retired to sled skiing and Japan, neither of which I've done much of in the past few years.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueNorth View Post
    Where do the Steeple 112 and 116 fit on the BG awesomeness scale?
    Great question. I have skied the 112 for 2 runs. Hated that ski inbounds. Tossed around in variable snow. Twitchy. I was thrilled to give it back.

    The steeple 116 has carried me on 4 touring days so far this winter and I’m very impressed. I have it in a 184 and it’s a nimble light version of the 189 BG. I skied a day and half in bounds and it did great. In chop, it’s not a BG, but it’s capable. I like it in weird snow out of bounds - I think an res tip is quite useful there and it’s heavy enough (9.8 lbs for the pair) to perform well in variable snow.

    For a ski to to go with the shift or tecton, I trust the On3p touring core now - I didn’t at first.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
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