Teach Me How to Yurp (In April)

[North]

Europe has never been on my radar for a variety of reasons, but this year the stars seems to be aligned and I'm considering spending most or all of April across the pond: big snow year over there, low snow in CO possibly making for an atypically lame spring season (that's an attempt at a reverse jinx), and I essentially have unlimited time. Is this a good idea? My sense is that the access is incredible for spring touring, so it's a good idea.

If time is not a factor, what's the best way to play it? Where do I start? Looking at old threads flying into Geneva seems to be the move.
After that the number of options is overwhelming. I'd like to hit the classics like La Grave, Cham, etc for the bucket list factor alone, but am open to just about anything that has good skiing. Culture is a bonus. Alagna has come up in my brief discussions with folks around town but I'm unfamiliar with the particulars. Anything I can eliminate from the list of possibilities due to early melt-out?

I'm most interested in touring, but my ambitions there will be limited by available partners. I'm generally well-traveled, and am comfortable with the idea of booking a flight over and the first few days and winging it from there. Experience-wise, I'm a solid skier, Avy2, and am comfortable on just about any snow climb that requires crampons/axe. Less experienced with ropes beyond basic rappels, and glacier travel. Ideally, I'd get a good mix of mellow tours with big views and some steeper, more interesting lines.

If you're me, what does your general itinerary/hit list look like?

PS - Once I have a more solid idea of where I'll be, I'd be stoked to meet up with some mags in the area. Anybody reading this who thinks I'd be a good fit as a tour partner, feel free to PM.

[dunfree]

The weeks either side of Easter can be busy. Ski areas will progressively start to close up from April 8th, 2018 (alagna's listed closing, St Anton's last day is listed as the 22nd April) and public transport will become less available. Some ski huts start to close as well, but the dates really vary on those.

[bobinch]

You’ve got Chamonix, Verbier, Val d’Isere, La Grave open until the end of April. Add Zermatt, Alagna if you want to go a bit further afield and also Engelberg. Andermatt, St Anton. They’re all top spots, conditions allowing. Shouldn’t be busy in April so leave booking accommodation until you know conditions and your itinerary. Easiest would probably be to base yourself in Chamonix and build your itinerary from there, although starting with the FWT final in Verbier might give you some ideas 😉

[Mike Pow]

You’ve got Chamonix, Verbier, Val d’Isere, La Grave open until the end of April. Add Zermatt, Alagna if you want to go a bit further afield and also Engelberg. Andermatt, St Anton. They’re all top spots, conditions allowing. Shouldn’t be busy in April so leave booking accommodation until you know conditions and your itinerary. Easiest would probably be to base yourself in Chamonix and build your itinerary from there, although starting with the FWT final in Verbier might give you some ideas ��

Date for FWT final please?

[bobinch]

Date for FWT final please?

Sat March 31st weather permitting. Unbelievably talented lineup this year!
https://www.freerideworldtour.com/ev...itzerland-2018

[subtle plague]

Fly anywhere cheap (Milano Zurich Geneva or Munich) and get a car.
Closing dates:
https://www.schneehoehen.de/saisonkalender/schweiz
https://www.schneehoehen.de/saisonkalender/frankreich

And other countries are similar.
Usually you want to stay in the northern alps because dumps there are colder in April. Southern alps weather patterns tend to be on the warm side in April.
And check the snow for the euros thread. It's a friendly little sparkle fairy enclave in the roaring tgr ocean.

You don't need reservations. Even in the holidays you can find something. Easter is not as bad as Christmas. Especially in the smaller resorts.

Just follow the snow. And avoid Cham verbier and so on like the plague if you are not a local or an extreme skier extraordinaire like peds and you like relaxed powder days. If it dumps there, that does not apply obviously.
generally... you'll have more fun and similar terrain In many places.

I'd recommend the Valais like Val danniviers or similar places in France that are high enough. Generally stay above 1500-1700m and you'll have a decent base left.

[Mr. Mike]

I spent 3 days in Val d'Anniviers in January. Very cools spot, but Grimentz/Zinal does close April 15 I see from Plague's link, so hit that one early if interested. Not too far to Zermatt from there, and it's open later as noted above. Keep in mind that Switzerland is appreciably more expensive than the other Alpine countries. Austria and Italy are generally less expensive.

[bobinch]

And avoid Cham verbier and so on like the plague if you are not a local or an extreme skier extraordinaire like peds and you like relaxed powder days. If it dumps there, that does not apply obviously.
generally... you'll have more fun and similar terrain In many places.

I'd recommend the Valais like Val danniviers or similar places in France that are high enough. Generally stay above 1500-1700m and you'll have a decent base left.

Sorry but this is terrible advice! April is not Feb half term. It will be quiet after the first week. These are some of the most iconic places to ski in the world for good reason. By all means do some days in smaller resorts but telling someone coming for a month to Europe in April to ignore Cham and Verbier for Val d’Anniviers and similar is madness IMHO

[dunfree]

Sorry but this is terrible advice! April is not Feb half term. It will be quiet after the first week. These are some of the most iconic places to ski in the world for good reason. By all means do some days in smaller resorts but telling someone coming for a month to Europe in April to ignore Cham and Verbier for Val d’Anniviers and similar is madness IMHO

I think it's the recipe for good to great runs with fewer competitors and spending less money. But I wouldn't base myself in Chamonix if the goal was to ski the Alps. You are a half days+ drive away from the eastern side of the Alps. A day by train or bus. It's a half day to La Grave. There is, ime, so much more to ski in the Alps than the top 8 or 10 resorts yanks like - you listed most of them - there are also hundreds of others. A lifetime I'll never know. Yes thebig resorts you listed are mindblowingly huge with great skiing. They were also crowded and a rat race, often, and based on descriptions they haven't gotten better.

In april I'd find some nice ski tours in season and go solo. cheaper, more fun. Finding the "best" skiing of the Alps is like trying to whittle a cultural tour of europe into a month. You can't and you won't. So pick things you like, pick things you want to explore.

[bobinch]

If he’s coming to GVA, wants to book somewhere for the first few days and has criteria to tour and do some steeps, and take it from there, Chamonix is an excellent place to start. Loads of cheap accommodation options, iconic town, stunning views etc, everything from VB to touring in the Aiguille Rouge, close to Courmayeur/Hellbronner for a taste of Italy, Verbier for a taste of Switzerland with Mont Fort / Mont Gele etc, start of the Haute Route if that takes his fancy, lots of saisonniers/mountaineer types to hook up with, local expertise from Peds etc etc. From there he can go South West taking in EK / 3V, and Serre Che/La Grave or East towards Zermatt / Monte Rosa - start Zermatt, ski under the Matterhorn into Italy, get a bus to Gressiney, ski Monte Rosa, or add the last day of the Haute Route from Arolla via Vignettes Hut to Zermatt - fabulous! Then head North to Andermatt/Engelberg and even The Arlberg if he still has the appetite for travel. Except for the first week of April even the big resorts will be empty, there will be plenty of accommodation and they are all high enough to ensure good lift served off piste and touring when the lower places can be slush fests. IMO that would be a memorable trip for someone coming to Europe for the first time. If he was coming in February and had already been to Europe several times the advice above would be fine but that’s not the case. YMMV

[Mike Pow]

Sat March 31st weather permitting. Unbelievably talented lineup this year!
https://www.freerideworldtour.com/ev...itzerland-2018

Cheers

[North]

Thanks to everybody who chimed in - I've been traveling a bit these past few weeks and just managed to check back.

This trip is still on the radar, although I'd certainly be more game/committed if I could rope one of my usual touring partners into it. I'll have to do some research over the next few days to get up to speed on all the possibilities mentioned. One of the more interesting options is doing something like Alkasquawlik did last season w/Josh Daiek:

https://medium.com/@codytownsend/hav...s-2f522d8c4639

[doebedoe]

Book airfare. Book this. Write a TR so I can decide whether to go on it next year.

https://www.ncmountainguides.com/adv...er-haute-route

[oftpiste]

Didn't go there myself (next year maybe) and not sure if they'll still be spinning at that time, but Thing #2 and the other riders all RAVE about Andorra both for the skiing and vibe.

[the_teo]

Norway is nice, lot's of snow this year. (maybe a bit thin further north).

Check out Sunnmöre

[Buster Highmen]

In Yurp rambles, there's kind of 2 factors:
0) Big ski resort or small ski area. Do you prefer ABasin to Vail or Monarch instead of Aspen? This is a question not so much about the skiable acreage, but the town, the scene, the tourist resources.
1) Do you want to and can afford a car?

If you like the bigger resorts, they're the obvious one already listed: Cham*, Verbier*, Espace Killy, Trois Vallees*, Sankt Moritz*, Arlberg, Portes du Soleil,Dolomites, Ischgl/Samnaum/Paznaunertal, Milky Way*. Etc.

I think of the bigger places, the Milky Way is a little different in that it has no central town and is spread out between smaller towns.

Medium sizes include Engleberg*, Val d'Annivers (Grimentz/Zinal), Saas Fee, the Austrian glacier places like Zillertal, Stubai, Kaunertaler, or Gasteinertal or and in Italy, the Ortler areas and Schnalstaler or Monte Rosa* (which closes early as mentioned - too bad) Ski Paradis (Les Arcs, La Plagne), Serre Chevalier*.

Smaller places include Andermatt* and in a way La Grave* since despite the big vertical and access into the Ecrins, the town is small. isolated and not resorty. Then there's Bivio, Arolla, Val Cenis*, Val Frejus*, Bonneval Sur Arc, every one of which is huDge by NAm standards, but is relatively small and isolated.

I'm not you, so I have no fucking idea what you want, so ask yourself what you prefer in your skiing.

On the car dealio, the basic premise is that both Switzerland and Austria are well connected via trains. For example, it's easy to get between Engleberg and Andermatt (if there's not some storm of the century ongoing) and it's not too bad to get from Andermatt to Davos/Klosters or Sankt Moritz. Similarly it's easy to get from the Arlberg to Kitzbuhel or Bad Gastein.

France and Italy by contrast just don't have the same level of train accessed skiing. You can get to Bourg St. Maurice and access EK or Paradiski and even Briancon (Serre Che*) and there's the trick of accessing the Milky Way from Oulx in Italy.

So if you can afford a car (the rental, high gas prices and parking PITA) you get a lot more flexibility and access to France and Italy.

Obviously, I prefer the smaller places and find, despite their awesome skiing and great bragging rights, the bigger places to be less interesting.

(* = been to these places)

Now, I like trains and don't generally like driving in Yurp. I also prefer the smaller places that have a little more local color than the bigger places.

So I'd warm up a day at Verbier or Engleberg, then, if the weathers good, spend a day getting up to Arolla (2 pomas take you up 1000 m to access some beautiful stuff and huts along the Haute Route.) Fart around there for a few days, maybe hop over to Grimentz/Zinal, the head over to Andermatt for a few days, see if you can hook up for a Urner Haute route (ask info@andermatt-guides.ch ), then head to Sankt Moritz, basing out of the hostel in Pontresina and ski both the Corvatsch and Diavolezza/La Galb complexes. Diavolezza has a bunch of classic tours and huts (e.g. https://mountaintracks.co.uk/holiday...mountaineering )

Another option is training to Oulx and travelling super light. Ski across the Milky Way, stay where ever, check out San Sicario & Cesana, get a taxi down to Briancon, ski Serre Chevalier for a few days, get a bus/taxi up to La Grave, hang out, ski. http://www.taxidelameije.com/

[plugboots]

Again, this is the “listen to Buster” post I often do. I have done Buster’s last paragraph section and that is just an amazingly fun area. Basically draw a big circle around the Milky Way to L’Alpe d’Huez, and play connect the dots.

[dunfree]

Thanks to everybody who chimed in - I've been traveling a bit these past few weeks and just managed to check back.

This trip is still on the radar, although I'd certainly be more game/committed if I could rope one of my usual touring partners into it. I'll have to do some research over the next few days to get up to speed on all the possibilities mentioned. One of the more interesting options is doing something like Alkasquawlik did last season w/Josh Daiek:

the swisstopo maps are available online for free https://map.geo.admin.ch you can enable the skiroutes & lifts on them by clicking a box. you can find swiss transport info at sbb.ch - depending on how much you plan to use rail in CH, a half-fare card can be useful. There are lockers and left-luggage places at a number of train stations, but they aren't really cheap. not sure your budget, but it was really easy for those seemingly small costs to add up quick in switzerland, as well as food costs. Dunno now, but grocers often closed early leaving you pretty shit food selection.

oh, and buster said it well.

[subtle plague]

Living about 5km from Switzerland I can assure you that nothing is cheap there except Ikea (for reasons I cannot comprehend). Our bed was cheaper there than in Germany. (another advantage besides the Zurich ikea being one hour closer ).
So we smuggled our bed into Germany via an unguarded border crossing.

Why am I posting this?because buster said most relevant things.
Weather seems to favor west and southern alps in the next 5 days.

Afterwards the warmth seems to come..

[plugboots]

Why am I posting this?because buster said most relevant things.

Well then, here’s a picture of gnocchi I had last week, on my way to return my car after my trip.


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