Speed kills - collisions #RideAnotherDay

**mooseknuckle** · 12-16-2019, 04:57 PM

Fuckin hell

**regct** · 12-16-2019, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

Mom knocked out and paralyzed.

http://www.nsaa.org/media/304373/Rid...yS17lo_res.pdf

Wrong. Mom was in a coma for a while and has done a lot of work recovering and is doing great. They have had a couple more kids since the accident. I’ve met this family and they are doing important work with this campaign.

It’s also not “marketing”, it’s a preliminary warning.
There is a time and a place to go fast, and anywhere a 5 year old is skiing isn’t the place.

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**Ottime** · 12-16-2019, 10:11 PM

Anyone who buzzes kids sucks at life. Had a few of those this weekend.

**Ottime** · 01-11-2020, 10:33 PM

Revisiting this thread as my kid (with. Right green pants, bright blue coat, bright as fuck green Mohawk and bright blue and orange poles) was hit by one of those assholes last week. Holiday at Squaw and all, but not even in one of the more congested areas where people are coming and going in every direction.

Son was skiing behind me and in front of mom, making small fall line turns on the edge of a blue groomer, just off the side of the piste and dude just runs home down. Lucky my kid had his shoulders and tips on the fall line. He folded and the guy basically ran over him. Kid lost both skis. Other dude ended up 15 yards down hill with only one ski.

Seriously, WTF people? Too many people think they are in control when they just plainly are not.

His is excuse was he thought my kid was going to make a wider turn and not stay in the fall line. Why not give him at least 5 feet, if not 15. Cause ya don’t fucking know.

Luckily after about 30 minutes my kiddo was ready to ski down and have some lunch. More of scare than anything else but he got really fucking lucky. That ski the guy lost did not hit my son as it went by and my son was not traversing and getting t-boned. Both could have had much worse outcomes.

**skiJ** · 01-12-2020, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by willywhit

Just saw the video for the first time on another forum. Really put a lump in my throat. Experienced skiers know when it's safe to go wide open, speed wise. Hot Doggin' hacks in crowded areas should be yanked off the hill.

I read the NSAA article, but cannot bring myself to watch this video...

Safety is everyone's Responsibility - Everyone.

the phrase I saw in this thread that I like is, If you see something, say something --

I also like Dj's description, " speed wranglers "

it saddens me, the perception that dangerous behavior is considered the Responsibility of Ski Patrol --
perhaps ski patrol needs to change our name ( not just the color of the cross... ) --

there are those drawn to ski patrol because they want to police the slopes --
in thirty years ( and forty-five years ) I do not see those individuals last as ski patrollers...

while there are areas where law enforcement also have emergency care training, as a whole, we do not expect Paramedics and EMTs to be Police officers...

Much of this thread saddens me ( and (shows me) why I avoid Saturdays ) …

I offer this idea : If you see little kids on the hill, SLOW Down. … slow down enough that you can Stop - almost instantly.

( I have no - problem with barking at (parents) who take little kids on slopes beyond their ability ) , but

collisions with little kids MUST Be avoided -

it is Not about You : it is everyone's Responsibility to promote Safety.

it is Everyone's Responsibility to promote Safety.

tj

**old goat** · 01-12-2020, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ottime

Revisiting this thread as my kid (with. Right green pants, bright blue coat, bright as fuck green Mohawk and bright blue and orange poles) was hit by one of those assholes last week. Holiday at Squaw and all, but not even in one of the more congested areas where people are coming and going in every direction.

Son was skiing behind me and in front of mom, making small fall line turns on the edge of a blue groomer, just off the side of the piste and dude just runs home down. Lucky my kid had his shoulders and tips on the fall line. He folded and the guy basically ran over him. Kid lost both skis. Other dude ended up 15 yards down hill with only one ski.

Seriously, WTF people? Too many people think they are in control when they just plainly are not.

His is excuse was he thought my kid was going to make a wider turn and not stay in the fall line. Why not give him at least 5 feet, if not 15. Cause ya don’t fucking know.

Luckily after about 30 minutes my kiddo was ready to ski down and have some lunch. More of scare than anything else but he got really fucking lucky. That ski the guy lost did not hit my son as it went by and my son was not traversing and getting t-boned. Both could have had much worse outcomes.

Man, I'm so glad that the kid is ok. When are you planning to give the asshole who hit him his ski back. I'd say next season at the soonest.
I don't know how fast you guys were skiing. I personally think that if someone is skiing more slowly than average it's best to leave some room at the edge of the groomer so the out of control idiots can pass on either side; others may not agree. Also, people are more visible away from the trees--not your son of course unless the idiot was color blind. I'm in no way suggesting that you or your son have any responsibility here; just a thought you may or may not agree with. Again, glad he's OK. Good thing kids are flexible; sometimes they tolerate hits that would seriously injure or kill adults--not always unfortunately. That had to be super scary for you and your wife.

**L82thegate** · 01-13-2020, 10:58 AM

I hate to hear about collisions, especially when it's an irresponsible jerk at fault. I watched a guy take a blind jump at Blackcomb, then drop a shoulder into an 8 - 10 year old girl that happened to be in his way. I followed as fast as I could and caught up at the next chair line. Asked why he left an accident he caused and didn't stop? Then started yelling at him hoping to get a patrol or liftee to come over. He flattened the poor kid & just kept going. 4 of his friends come over, circle me and start bad mouthing back. One lifted his board & threatened to use it. They leave, I go to guest services to report it. Staff was indifferent and didn't have me talk to a patrol member. Didn't document it either. Sad how they responded. That and other episodes where a lack of professionalism was evident soured me on their operation.

**old goat** · 01-13-2020, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by L82thegate

I hate to hear about collisions, especially when it's an irresponsible jerk at fault. I watched a guy take a blind jump at Blackcomb, then drop a shoulder into an 8 - 10 year old girl that happened to be in his way. I followed as fast as I could and caught up at the next chair line. Asked why he left an accident he caused and didn't stop? Then started yelling at him hoping to get a patrol or liftee to come over. He flattened the poor kid & just kept going. 4 of his friends come over, circle me and start bad mouthing back. One lifted his board & threatened to use it. They leave, I go to guest services to report it. Staff was indifferent and didn't have me talk to a patrol member. Didn't document it either. Sad how they responded. That and other episodes where a lack of professionalism was evident soured me on their operation.

I wouldn't expect desk staff to give a shit. Report stuff like that directly to patrol. They will care; sledding down injured or dead children is not high on their list of fun things to do. If you are going to confront a hit and run skier/boarder a call to patrol--if you have the number on your phone or the resort's app, or at least to 911 is probably a good idea. Hit and run on the slopes is a crime most places.

**gramboh** · 01-13-2020, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by L82thegate

I hate to hear about collisions, especially when it's an irresponsible jerk at fault. I watched a guy take a blind jump at Blackcomb, then drop a shoulder into an 8 - 10 year old girl that happened to be in his way. I followed as fast as I could and caught up at the next chair line. Asked why he left an accident he caused and didn't stop? Then started yelling at him hoping to get a patrol or liftee to come over. He flattened the poor kid & just kept going. 4 of his friends come over, circle me and start bad mouthing back. One lifted his board & threatened to use it. They leave, I go to guest services to report it. Staff was indifferent and didn't have me talk to a patrol member. Didn't document it either. Sad how they responded. That and other episodes where a lack of professionalism was evident soured me on their operation.

What a piece of shit, thanks for chasing the prick down and trying to do something about it. Pathetic to leave a kid after causing an incident like that. Sad that patrol/ops didn't do anything. Whistler needs to get more serious about handing out bans for reckless riding.

The number of gaper morons launching side hits late in the day on busy groomers/ski out at WB seems worse this year, my favourite is moron snowboarders jumping backside who can't see where they are landing. Tempting to ski through the edge of those runs and drop a shoulder on these idiots.

ott: glad your little one is ok. Not sure I will be able to handle an incident like this very well especially if the morons that causes it tries to make an excuse instead of owning up.

**Ottime** · 01-13-2020, 12:35 PM

They guy was accepting of blame essentially. Was trying to explain how he made a mistake. Problem was he did not give nearly enough room.

Goat, we were off the groomer moving at the speed of folks on groomer. We were the only three people skiing the right side of the Gully, basically right under the Emigrant lift line. Honestly not sure what we could have done better to avoid him. Squaw was insanely crowded that day and we had successfully negotiated among across all the dangerous cross traffic zones which there are plenty of at Squaw.

Kid put in 20k of very at Kirkwood yesterday, so he is strong and recovered.

**Canada1** · 01-13-2020, 12:36 PM

I am so much less agro now that my kids are older. I never realized how much stress it was creating in my day until now they are old enough I'm not constantly blocking for them. Thank god they survived it.

**californiagrown** · 01-13-2020, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Ottime

Honestly not sure what we could have done better to avoid him. S

And thats the thing. Accidents happen. You try and mitigate the possibility as much as you can, but EVERYONE has had a time or two that they hit or almost hit someone and were 100% at fault. Every kid that grows up skiing gets hit. It usually takes a close call, or an accident for people to realize they need to tone it down unfortunately.

At least the guy stopped, and hung around to make sure everything was all right.

**yeahman** · 01-13-2020, 02:11 PM

Sucks man, glad the kid is ok.

I used to ski behind my kids when they were little, thinking I was blocking anybody from hitting them, but somebody once pointed out that I was in fact blocking anybody's view of them. Somebody coming up behind may try to avoid me but turn downhill of me, not realizing the kid was there. Since then I have closely studied parents skiing with their kids and came to the conclusion it is actually safer to ski next to the kid rather than behind. This gives a clear view of both parent and child and allows people to make a wide turn around both as they pass.

Of couse a completely out of control idiot is something you really can't strategize for other than to keep a wary eye uphill. It is stressful and I felt lucky my kids never got creamed.

**old goat** · 01-13-2020, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Ottime

They guy was accepting of blame essentially. Was trying to explain how he made a mistake. Problem was he did not give nearly enough room.

Goat, we were off the groomer moving at the speed of folks on groomer. We were the only three people skiing the right side of the Gully, basically right under the Emigrant lift line. Honestly not sure what we could have done better to avoid him. Squaw was insanely crowded that day and we had successfully negotiated among across all the dangerous cross traffic zones which there are plenty of at Squaw.

Kid put in 20k of very at Kirkwood yesterday, so he is strong and recovered.

Got it. On a crowded day at Squaw the only safe places are the Squallywood lines I think.

Originally Posted by yeahman

Sucks man, glad the kid is ok.

I used to ski behind my kids when they were little, thinking I was blocking anybody from hitting them, but somebody once pointed out that I was in fact blocking anybody's view of them. Somebody coming up behind may try to avoid me but turn downhill of me, not realizing the kid was there. Since then I have closely studied parents skiing with their kids and came to the conclusion it is actually safer to ski next to the kid rather than behind. This gives a clear view of both parent and child and allows people to make a wide turn around both as they pass.

I like that theory---I didn't get long to try it. Seems like one day they were skiing the old rope tow at the bottom of Squaw and the next day I couldn't keep up with them. (Actually, the only way we could get the younger one ski was to let him ski by himself as soon as he could find his way around the mountain and let him quit when he was ready. As far as I know he was never hit.

One thing that might help is signalling by pointing with a hand when you or your kid is planning to do something unexpected, like turn off the main trail when the main trail splits. I may be the only person in America who does that, but over the last couple of years I've learned that my bones break very easily.

**Microcosm** · 01-13-2020, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

One thing that might help is signalling by pointing with a hand when you or your kid is planning to do something unexpected, like turn off the main trail when the main trail splits. I may be the only person in America who does that, but over the last couple of years I've learned that my bones break very easily.

I was hit a few times as a kid. Never injured or anything bad luckily. I like the hand thing but I wish people would just give a huge margin of error. Or wait a minute and bomb the slope when it empties out. Always does, even if for just a moment.

Teaching the s/o to ski and this is stressing the fuck outta me all over again decades later. Skiers who are flailing all over, no idea what to do with their poles, going mach 10 all around us.

I got pretty into moguls and trees as a kid, and I think this is why. Get away from the masses. Soon as she can, we gotta get off these popular groomers.

**cosmoKenney** · 01-13-2020, 05:33 PM

I was hit once by a dude on a snowboard who did some kind of cool trick. After his trick he was straight lining down the hill at about a 45 degree angle to the fall line while looking uphill to see if his friends noticed. I saw him at the very last second and couldn't avoid him. We both went down and I somehow messed up my ankle. Then when he was getting up he slid his board over my fingers and sliced me open.

**macon** · 01-13-2020, 05:51 PM

When I was just a grom mag I was skiing with my little brother in Keystone. This was sometime in the late 90s shortly after the vail acquisition and it was the first year I had ever worn a helmet - dad said I either stay home or wear a helmet. No negotiating. Felt super lame at the time because me and my brother were the only people wearing them (very glad this attitude has changed).

Fast forward a couple days and my brother is working on his turns when a teenage snowboarder seemingly comes out of nowhere from the trees and broadsides my brother with his board. The boarder was out of control and knew it, so he went down - but he tumbled and his feet went upwards. He basically dropkicked my brother square in the side of the head.

Pops had a few choice words for him to say the least. Brother was A-okay outside of a bit of a fright... as it turns out, helmets actually work. I don't think I ever questioned wearing a helmet ever again.

This boarder was going less than 10mph at the time of collision, and utterly decked my brother. I can't imagine the trauma involved had he been going 50mph...

Tragic story, feel so bad for the family.

**Ottime** · 01-13-2020, 06:37 PM

Good point side by side skiing.

And yeah, dude did come back for his ski and was contrite. Neither I nor my wife yelled at him. Some stranger dad did that for us. By the time I got back up hill, I just wanted to check in on my son. I did tell him he was going way to fast. He agreed.

Patrol was great. We were still getting it together when they showed up.

Goat - this was on one of those days were every line off KT, except for the saddle, was closed. So few squallywood lines were open. For sure it increased normal congestion with mixed skier level.

**adrian.bee** · 01-13-2020, 07:39 PM

Those signs hit home for me, and I don't have kids either.

Snowsports are dangerous. Add some arbitrary turners, out of control kooks, and fast conditions on narrow East Coast trails and you have yourself a death wish.

I think the "GO WITH THE FLOW" signs from years ago should make a comeback. Match the speed of the people around you, have some awareness.

**LongShortLong** · 01-14-2020, 12:22 AM

This needs to stop

Originally Posted by Microcosm

Or wait a minute and bomb the slope when it empties out.

If you need to bomb a slope, find a race course. What happens when you don't see someone? Or don't see someone catch an edge, suddenly turning? Or don't see some other loon come flying out of the trees? Or the other idiot bombing the slope?

If you need to play with your life, don't do it near mine. Thanks

**Samsquamch** · 01-14-2020, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by yeahman

I was in fact blocking anybody's view of them. Somebody coming up behind may try to avoid me but turn downhill of me, not realizing the kid was there.

Having had a very close call in this exact situation changed how I ski down groomers and especially on the crowded "end of day runs" like Big Emma at snowbird. I am a dumb reckless kid and ski with other ones but the number of instances that we had to deal with last year of snowboarders (10 boarders no skiers) hitting people and leaving, me twice, is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by LongShortLong

If you need to bomb a slope, find a race course.

Long I get the logic here but where is a ski race course that has public access. The same logic is used for teenage drivers speeding cars. It is a completely valid point that you raise about all the uncertainties but I think that telling them to find a racecourse is ignoring a problem. There are places to go fast and there are places to go slow and cruise you just have to be able to educate people on where those places are.

**old goat** · 01-15-2020, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ottime

Goat - this was on one of those days were every line off KT, except for the saddle, was closed. So few squallywood lines were open. For sure it increased normal congestion with mixed skier level.

I was being sermi-serious. I do feel safer on a double black than on the Mountain Run, but no Squallywood lines for me. And yeah, when the masses are confined to a few groomers--well, that's why they call it the WROD.
I still think you should have kept the ski.

**Ottime** · 01-15-2020, 10:40 AM

That would have been funny.

When we sent him on his way I made him promise he would tell all his friends was a big look he was for running down a child.

And I’m rarely serious.

Maybe I’ll look you up next time I’m up there. With two injured wings, I’m also not near any squallywood lines

Funny thing is my kid wanted to ski the Saddle again after hitting it in icy bumps. He’ll be on those lines before long. And his mom was pissed he made her go up KT that day.

**lake_effect** · 01-15-2020, 12:47 PM

Like others, I can't bring myself to watch the video. My 5 y.o. got run over by a girl on a snowboard last year at Steamboat. She barrel rolled got up and kept going, never even looked back. Wide open run, not crowded, no idea why she was anywhere near us. He was fine just pretty shook up, especially that she didn't stop.

Skiing next to the kiddos as opposed to behind them on runs where you have the space definitely makes sense too. People just need to have common sense and if the run is tight or crowded slow the fuck down.

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**old goat** · 01-15-2020, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ottime

That would have been funny.

When we sent him on his way I made him promise he would tell all his friends was a big look he was for running down a child.

And I’m rarely serious.

Maybe I’ll look you up next time I’m up there. With two injured wings, I’m also not near any squallywood lines

Funny thing is my kid wanted to ski the Saddle again after hitting it in icy bumps. He’ll be on those lines before long. And his mom was pissed he made her go up KT that day.

Saddle groomer is my least favorite place at Squaw. Either it's icy and filled with people who don't know how to slow down or stop, or there's a storm and zero viz and you're cruising along off piste and then without warning drop onto the groomer.

Originally Posted by lake_effect

Like others, I can't bring myself to watch the video. My 5 y.o. got run over by a girl on a snowboard last year at Steamboat. She barrel rolled got up and kept going, never even looked back. Wide open run, not crowded, no idea why she was anywhere near us. He was fine just pretty shook up, especially that she didn't stop.

Skiing next to the kiddos as opposed to behind them on runs where you have the space definitely makes sense too. People just need to have common sense and if the run is tight or crowded slow the fuck down.

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Have you considered the possibility that she didn't stop because she didn't know how?

Glad you mentioned "where you have the space". Today, Mom and dad and about a three year old, kid way in the back seat snowplowing for dear life, doing about 2 mph, mom and dad on either side, completely blocking a cat track that leads only to advanced runs. For all I know they're still coming down. It's one thing to encourage a kid to get out of their comfort level; it's another to take them someplace that's at least 3 levels over their ability.